Decorated samples of the ''Duke of Gloucester''

[phil-b259]

That's nothing.

 

The 2012 catalogue shows two T9s due 2nd Quarter and two West Countries for 3rd quarter.

 

All from existing tooling and none anywhere near the shops yet.

 

That's nothing.

 

The 2012 catalogue shows two T9s due 2nd Quarter and two West Countries for 3rd quarter.

 

All from existing tooling and none anywhere near the shops yet.

 

They may be from 'existing tooling', but said tooling was owned / in the possession of the factory that went and closed down last year thus Hornby haven't been able to access it. Somewhere else on the forum it was said that Hornby had only recently done a deal to pay rather a large sum of money to get hold of the tooling without which things like the T9 cannot be made. Even when they do get hold of it though they still have to find another factory to make use of it and that won't necessarily be straight forward if say the tooling needs certain machinery that Hornby's new suppliers don't have.

[Dunsignalling]

They may be from 'existing tooling', but said tooling was owned / in the possession of the factory that went and closed down last year thus Hornby haven't been able to access it. Somewhere else on the forum it was said that Hornby had only recently done a deal to pay rather a large sum of money to get hold of the tooling without which things like the T9 cannot be made. Even when they do get hold of it though they still have to find another factory to make use of it and that won't necessarily be straight forward if say the tooling needs certain machinery that Hornby's new suppliers don't have.

Hornby now have these listed for release in May (T9s) and June (WCs) so they are either being made by Kader prior to the "managed exit" set for July or alternative arrangements are already in place.

 

John

[Dan Hamblin]

Just run in my DoG (R3191), all seemed well so I hooked it up to a set of coaches to give it a loaded run. Managed two laps and then it ground to a halt - a check of the chassis revealed the centre driving wheel wiper on the drivers side had been pulled around by the wheel. Straightened it out and sent the loco out again only for it to start clicking after a few feet. On closer inspection the big end pin had moved beyond the back face of the wheel, catching the brass strip and pulling it around. The brass strip was also slightly deformed - the dished contact area on the end of each wiper has been punched in right on the end, meaning the edge is pretty sharp and susceptible to getting caught by any imperfections on the back face of the wheel.

 

I'm going to do the Britannia connecting rod modification, as described earlier in the thread, and at the same time drop the centre driver out to super glue that insert in place so it won't come out again. Also got to replace the front buffers with metal alternatives as one of the plastic ones had snapped off when I opened the box. Whistle needs gluing back on as that had been bent over in transit.

 

On the plus side, it's not a bad model overall. Yes, it would have been better at the same detail level as the Britannia, but going around the layout you don't tend to notice. There are some odd things like the metal bar behind the full length of the front buffer beam - that will have to be trimmed to fit sprung buffers. Nice to see modern detail like the extension on top of the tender that has been done on the real 71000 to increase water capacity.

 

Regards,

 

Dan

[Ian Hargrave]

Hattons inform me that my order for R 3191.....'Oh Lord,it's on its way!'....for whom it may concern.

Except that it isn't. Has run for a half way round a layout and then 'shorts' out. Before it's returned to Hattons,has anyone any thoughts on the matter,possible cause and remedy ? Thanks.

[toboldlygo]

Except that it isn't. Has run for a half way round a layout and then 'shorts' out. Before it's returned to Hattons,has anyone any thoughts on the matter,possible cause and remedy ? Thanks.

 

Sounds like there's something coming into contact with one of the wheels that shouldn't. It's been mentioned elsewhere and in post 534...

[Ian Hargrave]

Apparently,it is a common problem with this model. Hattons knew of it when contacted and of course they have no more in stock ,so it's either money back or wait for the next boat. Positive news is that the ever resourceful ,practical and helpful Ray ( aka Siver Sidelines ) thinks he has a cure and has sent me details which I have sent on to Alex ( Lochnagar ) who  is in the process of sorting it,hopefully,for me.Rather proves the value of RMWeb I think.

My first Hornby turkey !

[Bluebell Model Railway]

Think Ray had found one of the chassis castings around the gearbox rubbing on the rear inside wheel also which was sparking when running, possible source of a short, have to admit I haven't looked at my Railroad version which has the same chassis, certainly a good spot, I think I will also change the coupling rods at some point in the not to distant future.

[Lochnagar]

Right, as per Ian's post earlier on this page, I've sourced the problem. So for those of you having shorting out issues, here's what it is. 

 

Problem 1; intermittent (possible) short. The middle gear under the motor slops from side to side and could create a short around corners, this is remedied with a 1mm or so washer inserted onto the gear shaft and the gear simply dropped back in. The washer limits the side play in one direction and stops the shaft poking out the side of the chassis and touching the wheel.

 

Problem 2; Permanent short, non runner. This is caused by the pickup assembly touching the metal chassis block. 

 

Fix: Turn the loco upside down and remove the 4x screws, and lift out the pickup assembly/plastic chassis baseplate. There are no wires attached as you will see, and it simply 'contacts' onto two other contacts on the loco chassis.

 

Pic of baseplate removed;

 

The problem is the two brass contacts on the baseplate push against the contacts on the chassis, in turn pushing them into the cast whitemetal chassis block and shorting out. 

 

Close up pic of the offending chassis contacts;

 

The fix is simple, unscrew the little PCB with the contacts on it, insert a couple of strips of electrical tape, making sure you leave enough tape overhanging to cover the point of short between the visible whitemetal chassis block and the brass contacts. And redo the screw to hold the tape in place.

 

Pic of electrical tape fitted;

 

Now refit the baseplate and pickup assembly, making sure the baseplate contacts are pushing to the left to contact the pickups on the chassis. Replace 4 screws and test. Your loco should now run without issue. 

 

Not the best from Hornby, and a silly problem. But it's not the end of the world and you can rectify quite simply as you can hopefully see from the pics. Trying to find out what the problem was however, took me all day!! 

 

Hope this info can help folks who are currently pulling their hair out, and avoid getting refunds on models instead of replacements, as there are no more replacements to be had at the current time.

 

If anyone doesn't fancy doing this, get in touch and I'll do it for you.

 

Alex

[Ian Hargrave]

And thank you from me.....again, Alex. Thanks also to Ray for his help earlier. Now ,how many more 'out there' have this problem waiting to rear its head ? Come on,Hornby....get your act together .This is simply unacceptable,in anyone's language.

[toboldlygo]

My first Hornby turkey !

 

I didn't realize Hornby had brought Bernard Matthews...

[S.A.C Martin]

Funny, I was about to post similar pictures and ask for people's views on the internal design of the chassis.

 

It's an interesting chassis design, I find the axle and wheel arrangement in the slots to be the biggest question mark over the whole thing. I hadn't even considered the contacts there, and as it happens this may be why my one has been so unreliable during running in. It's a very different beast to the Tornado model, that's for certain.

[mow]

not clever design...

[Legend]

Design Cheap and see if we get away with it!

[Silver Sidelines]

Thanks Ian

 

Putting DoG right is a moving feast and I must move on, silk purses and sows ears come to mind......

 

However I do like Coachman's ideas for shortening the smoke box and I might just try that modification.

 

As I mentioned in the PM my particular DoG emits a rather unpleasant high pitched hissing noise when running - is this a peculiarity to my model or is it part of the clever design?

 

Regards

 

Ray

 

PS  The pictures of DoG for my Blog (and more) are together in one set on Flickr

[Ian Hargrave]

Design Cheap and see if we get away with it!

Thanks to the knowledge,expertise and abilities of two members of this forum,they won't.

[Ian Hargrave]

Thanks Ian

 

Putting DoG right is a moving feast and I must move on, silk purses and sows ears come to mind......

 

However I do like Coachman's ideas for shortening the smoke box and I might just try that modification.

 

As I mentioned in the PM my particular DoG emits a rather unpleasant high pitched hissing noise when running - is this a peculiarity to my model or is it part of the clever design?

 

Regards

Alex will now fit the twiddly bits,lightly weather it and test it on his club layout.I will inform you of any attack of the hissy fits. Best regards,Ian

 

Ray

 

PS  The pictures of DoG for my Blog (and more) are together in one set on Flickr

[toboldlygo]

Thanks Ian

 

Putting DoG right is a moving feast and I must move on, silk purses and sows ears come to mind......

 

However I do like Coachman's ideas for shortening the smoke box and I might just try that modification.

 

As I mentioned in the PM my particular DoG emits a rather unpleasant high pitched hissing noise when running - is this a peculiarity to my model or is it part of the clever design?

 

Regards

 

Ray

 

PS  The pictures of DoG for my Blog (and more) are together in one set on Flickr

 

Have you checked the contacts?

[Ian Hargrave]

Have you checked the contacts?

Look above...many times over

[Brit70053]

 

As I mentioned in the PM my particular DoG emits a rather unpleasant high pitched hissing noise when running - is this a peculiarity to my model or is it part of the clever design?

 

Regards

 

Ray

 

My model Also emits this type of noise, but what I find most peculiar is that it doesn't sound as though its coming from the loco, but from elsewhere in the train its hauling. it isn't of course.

I suspect its possibly the flywheel touching the bodyshell as it revolves, but haven't thoroughly checked this out yet. I'm a bit reluctant to dismantle the model which is otherwise running quite well.

 

Regards,

 

                John

[toboldlygo]

Look above...many times over

Hissing noise, is usually indicative of a contact being where it shouldn't. Always pays to check again. It's either that or Ray's got some OO gauge snakes residing in his DoG 

[PanzerJohn]

It maybe the flywheel eating its way through the wire that passes close to it.

[robmcg]

Disappointing to read that these DoG models have pickup problems, on top of other assembly and design issues..

 

On a slightly different note, has anyone read the latest Hornby Magazine article on modifying the DoG to BR condition? Hornby Magazine don't have an online download £3.95 purchase option like BRM, so it would take weeks to get to read it here in NZ.

 

The two DoGs I have access to in NZ here are both RR versions, one is mine, and the return crank on the middle driver was outside the Caprotti gear, but that might have been me removing it from the foam housing... it was eased back into place, no damage, and looks good,  but I don't have a layout to test general running, and haven't even tried.  I do have a rolling road and a test track, and might check it sometime soon. The other is my brother's model and it runs 'fairly well', as in 'not brilliant at slow speeds, but ok., might be better with running-in'...  He didn't mention any odd noises.

[Barry O]

Design Cheap and see if we get away with it!

Erm - Bachmann have had slots in chassis for the wheels for a while but I don't hear anyone complaining about that!- it is a shame that Hornby haven't continued with the chassis design used in the Stanier 2-6-4T which has brass bearings fitted to the axles (whereas the Bachmann Fairburn has axles running in Mazak)

 

The idea of removing wire links to the pick up plate by a wiper arrangement is a good idea but hasn't been production engineered at the factory...

[S.A.C Martin]

Erm - Bachmann have had slots in chassis for the wheels for a while but I don't hear anyone complaining about that!- it is a shame that Hornby haven't continued with the chassis design used in the Stanier 2-6-4T which has brass bearings fitted to the axles (whereas the Bachmann Fairburn has axles running in Mazak)

 

The idea of removing wire links to the pick up plate by a wiper arrangement is a good idea but hasn't been production engineered at the factory...

 

You're right that they did use this method but a quick glance at a few of my older Bachman locomotives shows that they used round axle slots and not squared off ones such as that found on the heavy tanks, stars and DoG. All of the newer Bachmann steam outline models have brass bearings, so they've technically gone forwards in chassis design whilst Hornby have gone backwards. Add to that all wheel pickup on a number of the new tender locomotives and the comparison with the main range DoG from Hornby starts to look quite unfavourable.

 

The Hornby Magazine article was interesting in so much that it went along similar lines to that Larry Goddard has done to his DoG, although personally speaking I would have gone the whole hog and removed the smokebox door dart and replaced it altogether (something I do plan on doing). In particular the tender modifications were very interesting to see and possibly will be something I will have a go at when I have some time to devote to the disassembly and reassembly of my DoG.

 

Mine has not made any odd noises but it has been a poor runner. Started off sweet as anything and got dramatically bad a few weeks back with constant stuttering and failing altogether. Replacing the coupling rods helped things a tad (it was certainly more stiff beforehand) and running has improved but it is still not satisfactory.

 

I know that we'll have the cyclical debate all over again about costs, labour, parts and design and so on…but I refuse point blank to accept that the steps backwards Hornby have taken on the DoG are anything other than penny pinching. I am happy to accept the halfway house body shell because it is now clear that it will form the basis of a very good looking model, and modelling is what I do as a hobby after all, but the chassis has to be reliable, smooth running and not require hours upon hours of rectification work straight out of the box. 

 

It's the design of the chassis itself I find most peculiar. I've said a dozen times but Hornby's Tornado really did set the pace and its chassis design is probably its strongest aspect. My Tornado in eggshell blue has done an incredible mileage since I bought it and it runs as sweetly as the day it was bought. Brass bearings set into round axle boxes and a good motor and flywheel arrangement.

 

Overall DoG can definitely be made into a very good model but the cost and time to do it you wouldn't do it if you needed, say, four or more of them (like a B1 for example). As a one off you'll do the work because it's a desirable and unique locomotive, and nothing more. I applaud everyone getting the scalpels and what not out to modify theirs.

 

Hornby were close to getting the recipe right here. The body shell for me is really nice. I especially like the firebox mouldings and I'm even starting to accept and like the tender too. I just find the total cost to buy the model and its actual specification in terms of the chassis to go against the grain set by other manufacturers, and by models within Hornby's own range. Its the inconsistency of Hornby which so exasperates: when they are good, they are very, very good.

 

 

The new Black Goods model looks rather nice and promising for Southern region modellers but I hope for their sakes it doesn't exhibit the chassis design found here. 

 

I think it's too late for the P2 though Tony Wright's write up of the first pre-production P2 gave me high hopes. Fingers crossed at any rate for that model to be better than that found here.

[Lochnagar]

The pickup design is very clever, eliminating hardwiring to ease maintenance, repair, and assembly. But they forgot to insulate it sufficiently! Hopefully later DoGs will be modified, even if it's with a bit of insulating tape. 

 

I've seen it on other steam models without issue, Bachmann and Hornby.

 

The 'hissing' noise is the motor, I'm certain it's a 3 pole. Looks suspiciously similar to the unit found in the entry level 0-4-0 'toy town' range, just with a dirty great flywheel shoved on the front in an attempt to smooth out performance. (in fact I'm sure it is). The motor just runs noisy unfortunately, doesn't mean it's unwell, just the nature of a different motor.

 

A far cry from the lump inside a west country for example. . I really don't want to say this about Hornby, but the running qualities just aren't as good. You can't compromise a decent quality 5 pole motor with a 3 pole and expect it to run the same.

 

All said, it's a decent model. But could have been loads better on all fronts.