multiprinter Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Only the earlier Triang locos had steel frames. From about 1960, if not earlier, they used cast Mazak chassis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Brit70053 Posted January 24, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 24, 2014 They did indeed - but Hornby-Dublo didn't, and they used an eighth inch diameter axle (the same size as a bicycle spoke thus having a suitable supply of steel in their early days; their metallurgy spec might have changed later?). The Triang axle holes had to be bushed down for an eighth inch axle but needed a spot of 'easing' to accept the bushes. I recall being surprised to read a long while ago in Railway Modeller, that a Romford Axle could be simply fitted in a Hornby Dublo chassis without the need to 'bush' the chassis. This made things surprisingly easy when I needed to re wheel my R1 after serious pitting of the tyres made the original driving wheels unusable. It is still running with the Romfords I fitted some 30 years ago and while obviously not as controllable as modern models due to wear and tear on the motor, can still hold its own and haul a decent load. The chassis has not suffered any deterioration that I can detect. Personally I'm quite relaxed about the potential endurance of the DoG wheel bearings, but of course only time will tell. I've not had my chassis apart to examine this feature, but from photos I've seen it appears there may be a half round bearing surface to the inside of the chassis frames. While I stand to be corrected about that, the slots on the outer edges are definitely oblong/ square in profile, there's no argument about that. Thankfully, at least for the time being, my model runs smoothly and only slows at the same parts of my layout (curve and unintended gradient in combination) as the majority of my other locos, including Hornby and Bachmann highly detailed models. Regards, John Edit to romove duplicate sign off Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted January 24, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 24, 2014 Barry, To be precise the old Tri-ang locos had steel side frames which enclosed the Mazak blocks, and if I recall the steel took the weight, not the Mazak. However, my recollection is that the engines were great, including the beautiful X04 motor. Mine is solid mazak - this is a very, very old Triang red princess Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45568 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 Well, it sounds as if we are back in the snug of the Rovers Return now! "eeehhhh when I were a lad". As was mentioned earlier, we are now in 2014, memoriesshould be in another topic! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 24, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 24, 2014 Strangely enough I dug out my very, very old Triang princess - it has axles running in Mazak and solid one piece rods - its goes round 1st, 2nd and 4rd radius curves and - after 50 years - the axle bearings are still Ok. So Hornby (and Hornby Dublo) did try out bearing less axles some time ago. I don't think any Hornby models had separate bearings until the tender drive locos started turning up (1970s?). The chassis in the ones I have had to bits were shaped to accept them and the availability of replacements with 1/8 inch holes from Crownline (IIRC) made fitting replacement wheels much easier. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefrk Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 The difference with the early Tri-ang and Dublo mazak chassis was that the bearings were a circular hole therefore a good bearing surface for the good fitting axle. The modern idea of a square bearing slot with a round axle flopping about in it is not a good bearing surface, think round peg in square hole - fits where it touches. Anyone would know this surely so why do the manufacturers insist on it. Adding brass bearings like Bachmann have done to recent models has improved the stability and increased their longevity. I recently put new wheelsets onto two models to convert them to EM gauge, the Ivatt 2mt 46xxx took the 1/8th axles without modification, yes and that was a brand new loco... That just shows how much slop there was with the original 3mm axles on a new model. The second loco had been used and you could see the axle wear on the sides of the slots so I carefully filed the slots out to 1/8th to take new axles and one could still just see a tiny bit of the wear. I think the next time I convert anything I'll try to fit long brass bearings in the slots just for longevity, afterall these locos will be working hard for a living. Dave Franks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Barry O Posted January 24, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 24, 2014 Well, it sounds as if we are back in the snug of the Rovers Return now! "eeehhhh when I were a lad". As was mentioned earlier, we are now in 2014, memoriesshould be in another topic! Western Australia... This is all about the relevance of a chassis with/without additional bearings - the point is it has been done before - albeit not with a "square" hole cut into the chassis. Its not about memories - its about technologies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I don't think any Hornby models had separate bearings until the tender drive locos started turning up (1970s?). The chassis in the ones I have had to bits were shaped to accept them and the availability of replacements with 1/8 inch holes from Crownline (IIRC) made fitting replacement wheels much easier. John The Hornby Margate axle was 9/64" diameter. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted January 24, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 24, 2014 Would a 2nd hand Brit full spec (in good condition) not serve you better than a new Brit to the spec of the Duke? Good point 071. Something I should certainly look out for. I haven't seen that many around at all, and I suspect the second hand price will increase as the model becomes more scarce. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimbus Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 The difference with the early Tri-ang and Dublo mazak chassis was that the bearings were a circular hole therefore a good bearing surface for the good fitting axle. The modern idea of a square bearing slot with a round axle flopping about in it is not a good bearing surface, think round peg in square hole - fits where it touches. Anyone would know this surely so why do the manufacturers insist on it. Strangely, as photo diaries of upgrades are already showing, Hornby has chosen to endow the Sentinel 0-4-0 with decent half-round axle journals. Most odd reasoning must be at work in Margate. The Nim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 24, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 24, 2014 The Hornby Margate axle was 9/64" diameter. Nowadays Markits do 9/64" axles so bushing or replacing the bearings is no longer needed unless the chassis is worn. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimbus Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I don't think any Hornby models had separate bearings until the tender drive locos started turning up (1970s?). The chassis in the ones I have had to bits were shaped to accept them and the availability of replacements with 1/8 inch holes from Crownline (IIRC) made fitting replacement wheels much easier. John First one I encountered was my 1971 Evening Star. I remember the wow factor that had, sitting in the local dealer's window. The wheels looked right, the cabside decoration looked so much better than the heat-stamped Britannia's. Had to force myself to overlook the treacly gloss varnish (which got everywhere that year). Horrendously expensive, at a tenner a go! The Nim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
w4rrn Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I have just been quickly reading through its of this thread and I an considering buying a DoG Which one do we reckon is the best buy- The railroad version and stick extra bits on to improve it or the special edition version? I realise a lot of the decision will be down to personal preference, but I just though I'd ask anyway Cheers Warren Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I have just been quickly reading through its of this thread and I an considering buying a DoG Which one do we reckon is the best buy- The railroad version and stick extra bits on to improve it or the special edition version? I realise a lot of the decision will be down to personal preference, but I just though I'd ask anyway Cheers Warren I suppose it boils down to what you would normally do to a similar loco. For example, would you replace the plastic smoke deflectors with etched ones? Would you normally fit engraved name and number plates? Would you search out suitable front steps and fit them? Would you normally fit more realistic bogie wheels? Do you intend altering the Tender in any way to make it resemble the 1954 BR1E or the 1957 BR1J. If the answer to most of these question is yes, then it seems most sensible to start off with the least expensive model possible. This was the path I chose several posts ago but, as you say, it is down to personal choice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I'd go for the RR version, especially if you can find front steps and hoses from a main-range detail pack, but if you can get a main range version for under about £90 then I'd go for that... you get the separate deflector handrails, even though the bosses for the handrails are a bit large, and you can mess around with the painted details to make it more to your taste too. I'm still waiting for a good weathered version in BR condition, as the Duke was usually dirty and unloved in its short BR life. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Accurascale Fran Posted January 24, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 24, 2014 Good point 071. Something I should certainly look out for. I haven't seen that many around at all, and I suspect the second hand price will increase as the model becomes more scarce. Do. A friend has one and in my view it's the finest of all RTR British outline steam. It was Hornby at their finest hour. I guess it's luck of the draw, a 'right place, right time (and right price!)' moment. But as I got such a good deal for a new Clan the potential bargains are out there. I shall be seeking out a Brit myself! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Do. A friend has one and in my view it's the finest of all RTR British outline steam. It was Hornby at their finest hour. Alongside the "Grange", 28xx/2884, L1, B1, O1, Schools, T9, N15...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
w4rrn Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Thanks for the replies guys. I have now decided which one to go for. I like the railroad version as it's very good value for money. Also I like the fact that the handrails are body colour too and the model can be improved relatively easily. But I have decided to buy the improved version in the end. I have pre ordered one through the duke of Gloucester website where all the profits go directly back into the 'the duke' itself! So I thought go for it! You can't argue with that :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanzerJohn Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 I paid £75 new for a Ltd Ed William Shakespeare Brit from an online dealers sale. Should have got 2. The bargains are out there if you wait. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Going slightly off the point, and given the fragility of the new generation Hornby models (apparent from the growing number of interestingly-damaged ones filtering through eBay), can anyone explain how the B1, O1 and B17 have escaped ending up as eBay spares? Are they just better built than all the others? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimbus Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Going slightly off the point, and given the fragility of the new generation Hornby models (apparent from the growing number of interestingly-damaged ones filtering through eBay), can anyone explain how the B1, O1 and B17 have escaped ending up as eBay spares? Are they just better built than all the others? Maybe it's just that they arrived at the start of Hornby's famine when only the quick and nimble could buy them. These being the folk most likely to respect their purchases? The Nim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Accurascale Fran Posted January 25, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2014 Alongside the "Grange", 28xx/2884, L1, B1, O1, Schools, T9, N15...... It was a golden age! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Going slightly off the point, and given the fragility of the new generation Hornby models (apparent from the growing number of interestingly-damaged ones filtering through eBay), can anyone explain how the B1, O1 and B17 have escaped ending up as eBay spares? Are they just better built than all the others? Simples, there arent that many to break Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 It was a golden age! ....which never existed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matabiau Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Has anyone replaced the buffers on the DoG? If so where did they get hold of suitable replacements? I believe that the appearance will be improved manyfold just by replacing the clearly plastic buffers with metal ones, similar to those on the GWR eight wheeled tanks. They don't need to be sprung, just metallic instead of silver painted plastic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.