farren’s workbench. Page 15 Going modern well mostly

[Blandford1969]

It looks nice and crisp. Who did it for you? I assume it was just done as a 'test etch'?

 

You really have gone to the next level with yout modelling, not available just etch it. 

 

 

[farren]

12 hours ago, Blandford1969 said:

It looks nice and crisp. Who did it for you? I assume it was just done as a 'test etch'?

 

You really have gone to the next level with yout modelling, not available just etch it. 

 

 

I used a company called 4D model shop. Yes it was a test, no I wouldn’t say I’ve gone to the next level more I’ve got the Mac book and software on subscription (which I was thinking of canceling) from uni and thought I wonder if it was usable for etching. Due to the file save options. So had nose round some sites and had a go.
 

I like the LNWR coaches and one of my books has plenty of drawings in to try if the mood takes me. I’ve seen some modellers do great work with plasticard and did try years back but I don’t have the skill to pull of the LNWR coaches so this seemed the best option for me. Saying that I do have the books with the drawings for most if not all the  SR steam and EMUs if I ever get bored. 

 

Normal hacking of brass and plastic will resume later. 

[Blandford1969]

5 hours ago, farren said:

I used a company called 4D model shop. Yes it was a test, no I wouldn’t say I’ve gone to the next level more I’ve got the Mac book and software on subscription (which I was thinking of canceling) from uni and thought I wonder if it was usable for etching. Due to the file save options. So had nose round some sites and had a go.
 

I like the LNWR coaches and one of my books has plenty of drawings in to try if the mood takes me. I’ve seen some modellers do great work with plasticard and did try years back but I don’t have the skill to pull of the LNWR coaches so this seemed the best option for me. Saying that I do have the books with the drawings for most if not all the  SR steam and EMUs if I ever get bored. 

 

Normal hacking of brass and plastic will resume later. 

Got to say it is great. My last etchings were at least 14 years ago and were all hand drawn. I will look forward to seeing them built.

[Barry O]

Farren

 

Can @Nicktoix help I wonder?

 

Baz

[farren]

The TPO drawings are about finished but I won’t bother showing as to be honest it’s not that exciting. 
 

in the meanwhile I went through all the LNWR kits available from London Road models and Wizard models to see what is already available, just no point in doing duplicates.

 

I did find some lovely 50, Arch roof none corridor coaches which ran in and out of Rugby. Should be fine for Chorley,  I’ve already received both D276, D326 and will order the other two next week.

 

I have a question for anyone who’s built them did you use the bogies provided? Which are the plastic Dapol ones. If so did you keep the wheels or swop them for some markits wheels. 
 

I ask as I Swapped the bogies on my Dapol LNWR coaches for the old comet ones thinking I don’t want plastic wheels and all the crud the make one the layout.  So was surprised to find them provided with the LRM kits. Are they better then I was thinking? 

[Citadel]

Hi Farren.  Am building the LRM 45’ Family Saloon and this comes with the plastic bogies.  They’re fine from my perspective but throw the plastic wheels in the bin and replace with Gibson versions and pinpoint bearings.  For the most recent set snapped the tie rod when cleaning off the flash so replaced with brass wire - looks a lot better so will probably do this again in future.

 

They look like nice kits, hope you enjoy building them!

 

Best Regards

 

Mike

 

 

[farren]

It’s been finished for a few weeks now need new name plates but it works. Which is a good thing I’ll take a photo of it on the layout at some point. As it’s not the best image. 

Edited July 26, 2022 by farren

[Jol Wilkinson]

On 23/07/2022 at 11:52, farren said:

The TPO drawings are about finished but I won’t bother showing as to be honest it’s not that exciting. 
 

in the meanwhile I went through all the LNWR kits available from London Road models and Wizard models to see what is already available, just no point in doing duplicates.

 

I did find some lovely 50, Arch roof none corridor coaches which ran in and out of Rugby. Should be fine for Chorley,  I’ve already received both D276, D326 and will order the other two next week.

 

I have a question for anyone who’s built them did you use the bogies provided? Which are the plastic Dapol ones. If so did you keep the wheels or swop them for some markits wheels. 
 

I ask as I Swapped the bogies on my Dapol LNWR coaches for the old comet ones thinking I don’t want plastic wheels and all the crud the make one the layout.  So was surprised to find them provided with the LRM kits. Are they better then I was thinking? 

The LRM LNWR 50ft Arc Roof carriage kits use the Ratio plastic moulded underframe and bogies. I fit the bogie sides to MJT or Brassmasters etched brass compensated bogie subframes  although I understand the Ratio bogies work well if fitted with AGW wheels and pinpoint bearings. 

 

The Diagram numbers you quoted are for two of 50ft Cove roof carriage kits which have an etched underframe but also use the Ratio 8ft bogie mouldings.

 

 I' d be interested in seeing the TPO carriage drawings.

[farren]

Well got some spare time so did a bit of soldering. One of the London Road kits it’s a bit odd the way the chassis is done so will be interesting to see how it pans out. Obviously it must work but never built a coach with the chassis that isn’t one piece before, not much done but already taken shape. It’s been in the ultrasonic cleaner which well it removes the solder flux the parts always come out a bit stained looking. Maybe i should try a different fluid. Sorry about the images taken at night. 

[farren]

Done some more work on the LRM kit, I have to say the are a lovely kit to build. Just another 5 to build. Wounder if the Sheffield/ Bachmann 2-4-0 will manage all six. 
 

it will be finished in LMS, don’t fancy my chances with LNWR livery again. 

[farren]

Well between melting in the heat and doing my best at the one armed crawl down the Blue Bore. For health reasons honest. 
 

I’ve managed to do a bit more on the coaches. All coaches now have their seats fitted and painted. 3rd class is red and 1st is green. What I can’t find is what colour is second class, dose anyone know? I have a feeling it’s blue but I’m not sure.

 

Yep the LNWR livery is shocking close up, but after multiple attempts I am not doing anymore for some time. on the layout I think it will be passable for a bit of interest. 
 

They just need transfers and couplings. And the roof fixing down. The London Road kit isn’t far behind needing its windows fitted and the Bogies finishing, at least it’s now on its own ones. 

Edited August 12, 2022 by farren

[Citadel]

Hello Farren

 

Share the pain re: LNWR livery but once you’ve cracked it find it incredibly rewarding as it is a truly beautiful combination.  Use the term ‘cracked it’ with a huge pinch of salt, when you see the work of professional painters like Ian Rathbone, Warren Haywood and others you just have to shrug your shoulders and give them the respect that is due.  Doing a D84 Picnic Saloon at the moment, was thinking of going a bit more blow by blow re: the painting as have developed some techniques that work for me (without reaching for the ruling pen which is still a bit beyond my talent and patience).

 

Around upholstery can only really quote from LNWR liveries by the HMRS:

 

‘There is general agreement that the colour of the upholstery in first class compartments immediately prior to the grouping was a floral patterned lovat green.  This applied to both the LNWR and the WCJS, and as far as can be determined green had always been the WCJS colour.  The weight of evidence suggests that before the war the normal colour of LNWR first class upholstery was blue’.  
 

Looks like there were exceptions, 1897 WCJS set trains were upholstered in a crushed strawberry colour while the 1913 WCJS vehicles were crimson red with dark red leather trimmings. Also the use of blue upholstery was never completely abandoned e.g. the Oerlikon electric stock.  In conclusion the comment is that at this distance in time it is not possible to reconcile all the evidence but most likely explanation is that change from blue to green in 1908 for LNWR new construction but existing vehicles continued to be refurbished in blue.

 

Around the other classes comments as follows:

 

’There is general agreement that second class was dark red, which may have either been plain or patterned with black.  In the last century third class seems to have been green but from 1897 changed to greenish-yellow or yellowish brown with black tracery.  When second class was abolished in 1912 the thirds became dark red.  Again WCJS appears to have been different as the thirds in the 1897 stock were brown with black rep and in the 1909 stock were crimson and black patterned velvet.

 

Haven’t seen the primary evidence but can live with the above - especially given that one you put the roof on the seat colour doesn’t really shout out at you.  Interesting topic though and would be fascinated to hear other folks views.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

[Jol Wilkinson]

Farren,

 

as Mike (Citadel) says, once you have cracked it, is is most rewarding. 

 

The technique I use was shown to me many years ago by a fellow LNWR modeller and which I wrote up for MRJ No. 52. It isn't as accurate as what Ian Rathbone achieves but gives a good representation of the LNWR livery. 

 

In my case I use a bow pen and have bought several over the years, the best being a Kern. I also bought a Haff which Ian Rathbone recommends in his video and which are still available from the manufacturers (although not the model that Ian R uses). https://www.haff.de/zirkel/

 

 

Bow pens are available second hand and Golden Arrow usually have a selection (although not cheap) which come with a "test card showing the lines they will produce.  (goldenarrow.me.uk)

 

I haven't found a bow pen difficult to use, although being an intermittent painter I do get a bit out of practise. However a sheet of black plasticard makes a good "canvas" for practising.

 

Jol

 

 

[Citadel]

Wow, mighty impressive.  Hadn’t seen one of your coaches close up before.  You can see that the yellow paint gives a better base for the central plum line (there’s a bit of bleed at this magnification when it’s Rotring ink on Rotring ink.  
 

Think might be going shopping….

[Chas Levin]

On 16/06/2022 at 19:48, farren said:

Here’s a photo of one LNWR coach Dapol. The livery is a right nightmare! It’s been stripped at lest 4times and one side might be 5! Still not happy though at 3ft it’s not too bad. However would like to to better! 
 

any tips would be very  helpful and greatly appreciated.
 

Paints used are railmatch. I think I obviously need more practice with the Bow Pen. I have a feeling the weather isn’t helping as the paint seems to be drying to fast and the bow pen needs a clean after one load of paint, is this normal. 

 

now no laughing but here’s a picture. 
 

roof is only in undercoat. 

Hello farren, I've found Humbrol enamels the best with a bow pen and I'd also recommend Ian Rathbone's book on Painting and Lining, where he also recommends Humbrol.

You're right about the weather - too hot and the paint certainly does dry too quickly.

That being said, frequent cleaning adn re-loading of the pen is a normal thing. If you keep the paint at the tips of the blades wet by continuing to draw with it, you can keep it going longer though.

Preparing and honing the pen blades is also essential - Mike Trice has done some excellent videos on this on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDbjgOKeczM .

Railmatch seems to me to have some additives which do help with settling over wider brushed areas, but might not be ideal for bow pen use. One thing I've found with Railmatch is that whatever the additives are, they repel water-based varnish - perhaps some sort of silicone or synthetic oil?

 

Edited August 14, 2022 by Chas Levin

[Barry O]

Add a bit of lighter fuel to humbrol paint.. makes it flow more easily.. attributable to Larry "Coachman" Goddard..

 

Baz

[farren]

On 12/08/2022 at 22:37, Citadel said:

Hello Farren

 

Share the pain re: LNWR livery but once you’ve cracked it find it incredibly rewarding as it is a truly beautiful combination.  Use the term ‘cracked it’ with a huge pinch of salt, when you see the work of professional painters like Ian Rathbone, Warren Haywood and others you just have to shrug your shoulders and give them the respect that is due.  Doing a D84 Picnic Saloon at the moment, was thinking of going a bit more blow by blow re: the painting as have developed some techniques that work for me (without reaching for the ruling pen which is still a bit beyond my talent and patience).

 

Around upholstery can only really quote from LNWR liveries by the HMRS:

 

‘There is general agreement that the colour of the upholstery in first class compartments immediately prior to the grouping was a floral patterned lovat green.  This applied to both the LNWR and the WCJS, and as far as can be determined green had always been the WCJS colour.  The weight of evidence suggests that before the war the normal colour of LNWR first class upholstery was blue’.  
 

Looks like there were exceptions, 1897 WCJS set trains were upholstered in a crushed strawberry colour while the 1913 WCJS vehicles were crimson red with dark red leather trimmings. Also the use of blue upholstery was never completely abandoned e.g. the Oerlikon electric stock.  In conclusion the comment is that at this distance in time it is not possible to reconcile all the evidence but most likely explanation is that change from blue to green in 1908 for LNWR new construction but existing vehicles continued to be refurbished in blue.

 

Around the other classes comments as follows:

 

’There is general agreement that second class was dark red, which may have either been plain or patterned with black.  In the last century third class seems to have been green but from 1897 changed to greenish-yellow or yellowish brown with black tracery.  When second class was abolished in 1912 the thirds became dark red.  Again WCJS appears to have been different as the thirds in the 1897 stock were brown with black rep and in the 1909 stock were crimson and black patterned velvet.

 

Haven’t seen the primary evidence but can live with the above - especially given that one you put the roof on the seat colour doesn’t really shout out at you.  Interesting topic though and would be fascinated to hear other folks views.

 

Cheers

 

Mike

 

 

Sorry for the delay in replying

 

Thanks for your reply and will be using your reply as a guide when I build some more. I did have a guild somewhere and thought I knew the book it was in, but I can’t seem to find it always the way. and it’s that long ago I forgot. 
 

 

[farren]

On 13/08/2022 at 09:19, Jol Wilkinson said:

Farren,

 

as Mike (Citadel) says, once you have cracked it, is is most rewarding. 

 

The technique I use was shown to me many years ago by a fellow LNWR modeller and which I wrote up for MRJ No. 52. It isn't as accurate as what Ian Rathbone achieves but gives a good representation of the LNWR livery. 

 

In my case I use a bow pen and have bought several over the years, the best being a Kern. I also bought a Haff which Ian Rathbone recommends in his video and which are still available from the manufacturers (although not the model that Ian R uses). https://www.haff.de/zirkel/

 

 

Bow pens are available second hand and Golden Arrow usually have a selection (although not cheap) which come with a "test card showing the lines they will produce.  (goldenarrow.me.uk)

 

I haven't found a bow pen difficult to use, although being an intermittent painter I do get a bit out of practise. However a sheet of black plasticard makes a good "canvas" for practising.

 

Jol

 

 

thank you for your post. Yeah I think when the weather is cooler I am just going to have to sit down a do a lot of practice with my newer bow pen. And try different paints to find out what works best for me. As BarryO suggested another paint. And practice can’t hurt really. 
 

lovely work with your coach. 

[farren]

On 14/08/2022 at 20:43, Chas Levin said:

Hello farren, I've found Humbrol enamels the best with a bow pen and I'd also recommend Ian Rathbone's book on Painting and Lining, where he also recommends Humbrol.

You're right about the weather - too hot and the paint certainly does dry too quickly.

That being said, frequent cleaning adn re-loading of the pen is a normal thing. If you keep the paint at the tips of the blades wet by continuing to draw with it, you can keep it going longer though.

Preparing and honing the pen blades is also essential - Mike Trice has done some excellent videos on this on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDbjgOKeczM .

Railmatch seems to me to have some additives which do help with settling over wider brushed areas, but might not be ideal for bow pen use. One thing I've found with Railmatch is that whatever the additives are, they repel water-based varnish - perhaps some sort of silicone or synthetic oil?

 

 

Cheers

I hadn’t thought of honing my new (to me) pen, I have done honing before on my very cheap new pen years ago with some guidance from Coachman who use to post on RMweb. So that might be a idea to try  YouTube can be very useful on such things. 

[farren]

A little progress on the Peco coaches the LNWR livery ones need transfers applying and all need their roofs fitted but are waiting for some passengers to be added. But wanted to see if they would run ok behind the Ex-LNWR 2-4-0. I thought it was a good excuse to play. Found some other Coaches I’d forgotten about. Think I might be forced into having to strip and repaint them as the BR red is just too red. 
 

the LRM coaches is having its transfers add at the moment.

[farren]

A bit more done, well in the loft last time I brought down two LNWR 57’ diagram 205 and 133. coaches in early BR livery. Transfers removed and re-done in LMS livery which wasn’t to hard a job. Even added the couplings so can be pulled around the layout. Yes the rain strips are missing and will be added. They did have some but i redid them a few years ago and forgot to reapply. 
 

and the 1st London Road coach has also been tackled. Needs glass fitting which is going to be fiddly but needs doing. 
 

incase your wondering no I don’t model in the kitchen, I just bring things in at night so they won’t get pinch. 

[farren]

Had a spare Dapol Stanier non corridor sitting in the cupboard. thought it would be the easiest to start with. It’s had a full paint job as it was in BR red and will be lined. It’s had the chassis detailed moved the back of the battery box to the other side struts fitted and other bits. Fitted Bachmann bogies and painted the sides of the glass windows which has cut down the presume effort, which I think improves it no end. Not perfect but much better then as they come. 

[farren]

The Dapol Stanier’s are now finished been waiting for transfers, needed the 3’s for 3rd class. Now all done they can go on two the layout. Two of the 50’ LRM models are all finished which do look good. The all 1st will be next as I have just about run out of 3’s again! (Should have ordered more) But looking at the stock so far I have 4 Dapol none corridor, there will be 4 LMR models and the 4 Hornby Stanier none corridors so a bit of pick and mix should give at least 2 poss 3 good rakes.  I think that will do for none corridor for now but a push pull set is wainted.

 

I’ve ordered my first L&YR 56’ coach from Wizard models. Don’t think I need a full rake but a few to mix with the Stanier III would add interst (saying that I do like sets)  it will be interesting how they build compared to Comet and LDM kits. 
 

 

Edited September 13, 2022 by farren

[farren]

Finally got the London road models coaches all done and are on the layout they run fine no last minute adjustments needed. Which is always nice. That bring the none corridor stock up to 16 coaches witch I think should be enough though I’m in to minds what todo with the Hornby Staniers in BR livery. should I repaint them or sell them and buy new ones in LMS livery. 
 

started a L&YR BCK the chassis is almost done need a clean and tidy. Nd the steps Ned some attention.

 

yes I realise the Dapol coaches are corridors, though they'd be used for secondly services. Sorry  I can’t b bothered re-writing it all. As this phone key pad isn’t playing ball.

 

Edited October 2, 2022 by farren

[farren]

Well the diy plans went out the window, so spent many a happy hours well 1 and half putting hinges in holes either only partly etch or not there at all!. And have tacked the main coach together to give a idea how it will look. I would say look at the instructions, though they are more of a rough idea really. But I think the kit will make a decent model once complete.