Sound advice

[Red Rob]

My (ESU ECoS-driven) layout is BR Western Region/LM Region set in early to mid-60s. And I have a stable of 25 locos, mainly steam but also some diesels and DMUs.

 

So far, I've resisted the temptation of sound, but I've been getting a little tempted lately. But, before I dive in, I'd value learning about the experiences of others on the subject.

 

I know it can be a subjective thing, but I'd appreciate which dealers people have had the best experiences with, and which products they'd recommend.

 

For instance, I somehow landed in the Olivia's Trains website today, and it seems pretty comprehensive in the service they offer (I'd be sending my already-chipped locos for upgrading if I venture into sound). But I've had no dealings with them previously, so I'd like to hear what other people's experiences with them have been. Are there any other dealers who offer a similar upgrading service? Which would you recommend?

 

I've been looking on YouTube at certain sound-fitted locos (the sounds often seem a little thin to me, particularly steam locos), but I accept the limitations of the video recording may have had an effect. Again, what are people's thoughts on these, and would different speakers improve things.

 

And all thoughts and experiences would be welcomed.

 

Many thanks.

 

Rob 20|13

 

 

[richard hines]

This is such a big topic that you will get an equaly big number of answers.I did all the usual things utube etc and then dived in.I have recently purchased a second hand Bachmann class 25 with sound and I can honestly say I am impressed with it,that however is just my opinion.I have found Digitrains helpful and because of that I am having a class 37 fitted with their zimo chip and sound file,this will probable result in me not being happy with the class 25 and so it goes on,but haho.My advice is to just have a dabble.

[Oldddudders]

I can't offer advice on any UK sound files or suppliers, but can say that having used sound in HO for more than a dozen years, I think it is best regarded as adding a dimension to the layout, rather than necessarily to the loco to which it is fitted. Setting up a steam loco so that the chuffs make sense at all running speeds is difficult, but locos that chuff are more realistic than ones that don't. Similarly with diesels, getting the starting revs right can be tricky - but the tickover at rest is often very convincing, and at speed they do sound right to me. 

 

Tiny speakers, difficult recording conditions etc and YouTube limitations can make some sound-equipped locos seem quite disappointing. Make sure you listen to actual models, preferably in the premises of the supplier of the sound file - that will be the fairest test of anyone's hard work.

[pheaton]

I have a large number of sound equipped locomotives, and when DCC sound came out i was instantly hooked....

 

However as time has moved on although it hasnt curbed my enthusiasm for DCC sound the price rises of factory fitted sound locomotives have dampened it, and i find myself converting existing locomotives/units to dcc sound.

I personally (and this is my opinion only) believe that DCC sound doesent work well in anything but the smallest exhibitions and the home, too much background noise to fully appreciate the loco in my opinion, but in the home i enjoy starting various locos up and having a shunt round my depot or watching them move through my scenic area. That said i have a tail chaser layout and i feel really unable to leave a sound equipped loco running for extended periods as it does circuits around the layout. so i tend to turn it off as it runs and perhaps concentrate on loco's shuffling around my depot.

 

I will endorse the "sound" advice given so far by my fellow rmwebbers but will add the following.

 

Spend as much time researching as possible....listen to youtube (again taking into account what old-dudders said) but also remember that locos on you-tube may have radically different speaker setups to what you expect or are comfortable with setting up and this drastically alters sound...i have fallen into the trap long ago....listening to something on your tube and thinking blimey i must have one of those! only to find when i set my own up it sounds different due to the speaker arrangement, but as always its each to there own.

 

My favourite part of setting DCC sound though is having un-useual loco types....like a 37/9 and having all of my 37s with different makes of sound it all mixes it up for individuality same with 47s and my 50s.

 

Now ive purchased a lokprogrammer i hope to make some of my own sounds in the near future.

Good Luck.....if you live close to gloucester though im more then happy to show you my sound equipped locos  

[Lady_Ava_Hay]

We have seen quite a few threads on here over the years similar to yours. There are some basic principles that seem to be as valid now as ever they were even allowing for the extra sophistication that we now see in sound chip technology.

 

The market in RTR chips is relatively new and the market in factory fitted sound is even newer.

 

A basic precept in all sound chips and projects is that what sounds really great to you might sound really c--p to someone else and vice versa. Any advice to listen to the product you are buying is good advice and YouTube doesn't really cut it for a variety of reasons that are too techie to repeat in this post.

 

Remember that you are listening to a performance which may bear little relation to the real thing in terms of audio performance. Again, many techie reasons.

 

Without doubt the very best decoder sound project can be ruined by a poor speaker and/or poor installation. It is generally agreed amongst us sound buffs that the manufacturers can still sometimes fall very short in this department. The principal reason for this shortfall is the need on certain models to commit surgery on them to get it all to fit.

 

In sound decoders and in general you get very much what you pay for so a 'cheap' sound loco will be more likely to disappoint than an expensive one.

 

Nevertheless, apart from us buffs who home grow sounds and projects, there is an addictive quality to sound chips and there are many who would say that a loco without sound is merely a train set candidate.

 

There are others who find sound locos irritating beyond belief, particularly at exhibitions.

 

A broad brush view and not designed to sell you anything. Lastly, sound chips at the top of the market are expensive and a budget of between £75 - £100 per locomotive to convert existing stock might prove prohibitive.

 

One maxim though is if you have two examples of a certain type of locomotive it pays to buy from various sources using perhaps different decoders and speakers to ensure that each loco sounds just a little different to its stable-mate.

[SRman]

I started a thread for sound videos to be posted (not intended to be all my own!) for just this reason, so others could preview sounds and see (no pun intended!) if they like what they hear before spending large amounts of money. The otehr thing is that if you don't like the sounds you buy initially, the ESU or Zimo decoders can be 'reblown' with a different sound set (usually for a fee).

 

I can't post the link right now but it is under the DCC sound heading.

[Phil Bullock]

Hi Rob

 

Don't know if our youtube files are amongst those you have looked at, latest is at

 

If you trawl back you will find a wide variety of diesel types. All chips are Loksound and sound files are from Howes of Oxford - no connection except a very happy customer, both in terms of the product and excellent customer service.

 

Agree with all of the above comments re diesels. Running at a constant speed is least effective but tick over, moving off and stopping are very effective. Adds another dimension and additional realism - if you know and love the real thing a good sound installation can come pretty close. Would make exactly the same comment as pheaton - theres obviously a cluster of us in Gloucestershire!

 

Kind regards

 

Phil

[roundhouse]

I have used both Howes and South West Digital Loksound decoders.

 

Both are as good to me  but each tneds to have a slightly different range of loco sounds.

 

So my Bullied Pacific ones come from Howes and the Ivatt ones come from SWD.

 

Get as big a speaker as you can in the space available and if its not a Bass reflex speaker (obtainable form DCC Supplies) then either buy or make your own baffle box and seal it (I use canopy glue as it can be peeled off if access is rewuired in the future).

 

The temptation is to put the sound levels to maximum but some times you can get distrortion so a few steps dowen from max is often best.

 

Ian

[SRman]

Here's the link to the sound video topic - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/333-dcc-sound-videos/

 

As I said, it may help to give an idea of the sound varieties available but (as others have already said) there are limitations in the media used with the trade-off between sound and picture quality against the size of the download for the user.

 

I have many good quality sound decoders from the likes of Howes, Legomanbiffo (available from DC Kits), Hornby, Bachmann/Southwest Digital, and Digitrains (Paul Chetter's work). All except the Digitrains one are on ESU LokSOund decoders, either v3.5 or v4.

 

I have also been less impressed with a couple of Bachmann/SWD's projects, not because of sound quality, which was very good, but due the the lack of 'driveability' and Hornby's class 31 which, while good in many ways, sounds more like a class 37 than a 31.

 

The one and only Olivia's project I had, a class 50, did not impress me at all. The idle was nice but accelerating merely increased the idle speed and decelerating caused a straight fade back to the slower idle, with no 'spool down' or turbo whistle. Some of their projects shown on YouTube seem to sound OK but it is really up to the person with the spending money to decide what they like or don't like.

 

That Olivia's class 50 decoder now resides in my Heljan D0280 Falcon with Howes' sounds on it.

[cassey jones]

There are only three I can recommend, one is Loksound and two use is Zimo.

Loksound from Bif [my opinion the best of Loksound sound man]

Digitrains Zimo sound files [steam loco's available]

and of course Mr Paul Chetter.

I have sound chips from all three and can highly recommend them.

 

As for Olivias in Sheffield, I only purchased one sound chip approx 6 years ago [a class 33] put had it reblown by Howes becuase it sounded like my bag of spanners!

Maybe they have changed, let your ears decide!

 

You cannot go wrong with Bif, Digtrains or Paul's sound chips. 

[Red Rob]

Lads

 

Thanks for your help on this. Sadly, I'm still a tad unclear on what and who's best in the supply department. So my confusion remains. And the big problem I have is that while I live in a big city, I'm not aware of anywhere local where I can go and hear for myself what's on offer. I've been to shows, including Warley, and the consensus seems to be that these aren't the best environments for a sound check.

 

The 'Bif' referred to (if it's legomanbiff) appears to deal only in diesels, which accounts for about 20% of my stock, and no one seems to do a comparable job on steam, is that correct? Also, how many dealers will actually supply and fit sound?

 

I'm almost tempted to buy a second-hand sound loco via eBay, but I know the chances are it will be a less advanced level of technology and quality compared with what's currently on offer. So I'm still confused…plenty of questions but few answers!!!

 

Rob

[Dunmar]

Hi Rob,

Going to shows and getting behind the layout - many operators and owners will gladly show you round and give any help you may require - that's exactly how I got to know the field.

However a good mate  of mine pointed me in the direction of Howes initially - great service and advice is what I got! I thought their decoders were mind-blowing and still do! I then moved on to Legomanbiffo specifically for a CL37 West Highland Sound - and that's exactly what I got. From there I moved on to Digitrains 'multi-drive' decoders which are 'Brill'  .

From my own experiences I have had a whale of a time since I changed over - and still am

Above all it's what your requirements are that matters here.

Good Luck

Bill.

[Phil Bullock]

Hi Rob

 

Where do you live? We are at Newport show 1st/2nd June if you want to come and have a look/play

 

Phil

[Red Rob]

Phil

 

Thanks for the offer: I realised too late that I hadn't mentioned earlier where I live, which is near Bletchley, Bucks, and part of MK, which has no model shops that I'm aware of apart from Modelzone in the city centre. There is the Railex show coming up in a few weeks at Aylesbury and I'm planning to visit. I might get some help there. Oxford is about an hour's drive away, but parking is a nightmare — last time I visited I got done big style for parking on a Sunday night … and that was after a traffic warden had guided me into a vacant space. Not just that, I've looked at the Howe's website, and they don't appear to have any sound decoders in stock.

[Nigelcliffe]

.... I've looked at the Howe's website, and they don't appear to have any sound decoders in stock.

 

That's because they usually blow them to order for customers - decoder comes in, decoder blown to order.   Howes are better dealt with by email or phone. 

 

Looking at the traders at RailEx, and you won't get a lot of UK sound support.   There may be some owners with locos on layouts who can give advice. 

 

 

 

- Nigel

[Phil Bullock]

Phil

 

Thanks for the offer: I realised too late that I hadn't mentioned earlier where I live, which is near Bletchley, Bucks, and part of MK, which has no model shops that I'm aware of apart from Modelzone in the city centre. There is the Railex show coming up in a few weeks at Aylesbury and I'm planning to visit. I might get some help there. Oxford is about an hour's drive away, but parking is a nightmare — last time I visited I got done big style for parking on a Sunday night … and that was after a traffic warden had guided me into a vacant space. Not just that, I've looked at the Howe's website, and they don't appear to have any sound decoders in stock.

 

Hi Rob

 

As am ex resident of Great Linford I know your area well. Also know just what you mean about Oxford parking but you wont have any problem at Howes in Kidlington - on an industrial estate with their own dedicated parking. Having said that Nigel's comments are correct - no sound chips ready blown in stock or demo locos.

 

Kind regards

 

Phil

[legomanbiffo]

Looking at the traders at RailEx, and you won't get a lot of UK sound support.

- Nigel

Not true! Charlie and I will be there with a full range of UK sound chips, and a demonstration layout with a selection of diesel and electric models to listen to. I'll be happy to discuss anything on the subject, and offer advice.

[RedgateModels]

As for Olivias in Sheffield, I only purchased one sound chip approx 6 years ago [a class 33] put had it reblown by Howes becuase it sounded like my bag of spanners!

Maybe they have changed, let your ears decide!

 

You cannot go wrong with Bif, Digtrains or Paul's sound chips. 

 

Couldn't agree more

[Nigelcliffe]

Not true! Charlie and I will be there with a full range of UK sound chips, and a demonstration layout with a selection of diesel and electric models to listen to. I'll be happy to discuss anything on the subject, and offer advice.

 

Ah, sorry,  I didn't spot you looking down the list. I'd normally look for "DC Kits" not "DE video"....

[SRman]

I'm seriously considering getting Bif's class 33 - that will mean I have two Howes 33s (a 33/1 and a 33/2), one 33/0 with Digitrains' (Paul Chetter) sounds and then bif's as well to come in the near future.

 

A bit of variety, even within the same type, is not a bad thing at all. I still rate the Howes sounds very highly, and they make up the majority of my sound fleet.

 

My class 37s also illustrate this philosophy as I have three with sound: 37 698 with original Bachmann/SWD sounds, 37 035 with Howes'  unrefurbished sounds and 37 693 with Howes' refurbished sounds.

 

I also have three steamers with sound from Howes, although the T9 has developed a fault and will only run forwards (this was an older decoder reblown so is well out of warranty, unfortunately). The others are a BR Standard 5MT (73082, with Arthur whistle) and a West Country (34041).

[PjKing1]

Just came across this thread and like yourself I'm new to dcc and sound, but thought if I'm going dcc I may as well go dcc sound. I looked through all the youtube videos and there are lots of great sounding chips. I then came across the DC Kits website and I've just bought one of Bif's class 47 sound decoders and it's fantastic I'm very impressed.

 

Paul