Humbrol matt enamels

[crompton 33]

When use'ing light colours like Yellow  . You need to use a White Primer first to stop paint bleed.

[Andrew F]

The problem is finding a white primer for airbrushing. Railmatch universal primer is very poor at covering and takes 4 days to dry. Humbrol 33 white was good but is now poor. Halfords rattlecan is good but is rattlecan. Precision paints are difficult to get hold of.

 

What makes a paint so translucent? Does yellow have to be so?. I recently re-sprayed a batch of mk3's in Railmatch blue and grey and sprayed a test coach first to determine the best way to tackle the batch. Experience would suggest that the grey goes on first and the blue afterwards as it's the darker colour but I found the blue to be the most translucent and grey covered the blue no problem in a couple of passes.

[Barry Ten]

It's still a rattle can but I tend to use Tamiya fine surface primer. It gives a good, even covering and dries quickly.

[John M Upton]

Well, I just opened a tin of newly produced (label in the lid as opposed to earlier painted lid) tinlet of satin white.  It has now gone straight in the bin, clutching the award for the worst made and most useless tin of paint I have ever had the misfortune to have met in thirty five years of modelling!!

 

Whoever passed that as being of merchantable quality should be fired!!

[5050]

Going back to Yellow's covering power, about 30 years ago (good grief!!) I was working in steel office furniture sales and one of my corporate customers wanted their corporate yellow incuded in their items for branches.  We used stove enamelling with electrostatic spraying and just couldn't get adequate coverage, whatever was underneath grinned through.  Thankfully, while this was going on, the customer decided to change their corporate colours to include a mid-grey which was perfect.

[TheSignalEngineer]

Well, I just opened a tin of newly produced (label in the lid as opposed to earlier painted lid) tinlet of satin white.  It has now gone straight in the bin, clutching the award for the worst made and most useless tin of paint I have ever had the misfortune to have met in thirty five years of modelling!!

 

Whoever passed that as being of merchantable quality should be fired!!

Just tried a new tin of Matt black enamel. Despite lots of stirring and shaking it will only dry to a gloss finish.

[RexAshton]

Just to throw a spanner in the works I've just sprayed a plastic building kit with Humbrol matt brick and matt black on some other parts with pefect results. Maybe it's becuase it's sprayed on not brushed. Well stirred, correctly thinned and applied in thin coats. Works for me.

[cravensdmufan]

Just tried a new tin of Matt black enamel. Despite lots of stirring and shaking it will only dry to a gloss finish.

Yes, I've had a similar experiece with Humbrol weathering washes - dried gloss!

[Torper]

Looking for a suitable colour for a coach I've just built and primed I came across a very old tinlet of Humbrol Railway Enamel LMS Crimson Lake.  The style of the tinlet (Burberry check) suggests that I probably bought it as far back as the 60s.  It had been opened in the past, but was still liquid with no skin on it.  I stirred it well, thinned it, sprayed it and achieved a perfect low-satin finish with which I am very pleased.

 

DT

Edited October 25, 2018 by Torper

[cravensdmufan]

Yes those Humbrol "railway enamel" paints that were available in the 1960's and 1970's were always excellent. I remember brushing them on with perfect results. I assume they were made with additives that are no longer allowed.

[TheSignalEngineer]

Looking for a bright yellow last week I found a tin of Humbrol satin finish Signal Yellow. Last time it was used was to do some Distant arms in 1981. Still in excellent condition after a good stir.

I still have a number of Humbrol and Airfix tinlets used for aircraft modelling with my son in the early 1980s. Good for small bits on figures etc.

[spikey]

Yes those Humbrol "railway enamel" paints that were available in the 1960's and 1970's were always excellent. I remember brushing them on with perfect results. I assume they were made with additives that are no longer allowed.

Maybe, but IMO the difference is far more likely to be that in those days they were both UK-made and properly quality-controlled.

[cctransuk]

Just tried a new tin of Matt black enamel. Despite lots of stirring and shaking it will only dry to a gloss finish.

 

I too have been using a new tin of Humbrol Matt Black - it dried to a perfect matt finish.

 

However, you can hand-stir and shake from now until doomsday; it won't be enough - you need to be much more proactive to break up and distribute the almost solid pigment / matting agent at the bottom of the tin.

 

I use a piece of thin brass rod, bent into a triangle that will fit within the can, and with a vertical shaft protruding upwards. Mounted in a mini-drill and run slowly at first, and then at increasing speed, keep going until you can feel no solids adhering to the bottom of the tin - then continue for another minute.

 

That way, you end up with all of the paint components in a uniform suspension which, for me, dries matt.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[cctransuk]

The problem is finding a white primer for airbrushing. Railmatch universal primer is very poor at covering and takes 4 days to dry. Humbrol 33 white was good but is now poor. Halfords rattlecan is good but is rattlecan. Precision paints are difficult to get hold of.

 

What makes a paint so translucent? Does yellow have to be so?. I recently re-sprayed a batch of mk3's in Railmatch blue and grey and sprayed a test coach first to determine the best way to tackle the batch. Experience would suggest that the grey goes on first and the blue afterwards as it's the darker colour but I found the blue to be the most translucent and grey covered the blue no problem in a couple of passes.

 

Why not use a can of Halfords white primer - it works for me?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Edited October 27, 2018 by cctransuk

[BlackRat]

I too have been using a new tin of Humbrol Matt Black - it dried to a perfect matt finish.

 

However, you can hand-stir and shake from now until doomsday; it won't be enough - you need to be much more proactive to break up and distribute the almost solid pigment / matting agent at the bottom of the tin.

 

I use a piece of thin brass rod, bent into a triangle that will fit within the can, and with a vertical shaft protruding upwards. Mounted in a mini-drill and run slowly at first, and then at increasing speed, keep going until you can feel no solids adhering to the bottom of the tin - then continue for another minute.

 

That way, you end up with all of the paint components in a uniform suspension which, for me, dries matt.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Use an old lid, suitably cleaned up with a small hole drilled centrally.

 

This can then be put on the tin to be stirred, secured, then the stirrer fed into it and turned on.

 

I use either a coffee frothier with the frothier cut off and th end bent to 90 degrees......or for really stubborn paint a small allen key in a mini drill.

 

Just remove the lid when finished, wipe off and paint away.

 

Saves you getting ( occasionally) paint everywhere.

[cravensdmufan]

Use an old lid, suitably cleaned up with a small hole drilled centrally.

 

This can then be put on the tin to be stirred, secured, then the stirrer fed into it and turned on.

 

I use either a coffee frothier with the frothier cut off and th end bent to 90 degrees......or for really stubborn paint a small allen key in a mini drill.

 

Just remove the lid when finished, wipe off and paint away.

 

Saves you getting ( occasionally) paint everywhere.

That is an excellent idea, thanks!

[Andrew F]

Why no use a can of Halfords white primer - it works for me?

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

I just prefer to control the pressure, paint flow and thinning myself. Some jobs need this. Don't get me wrong; the Halfords white primer is a good quality paint but aerosols are wasteful and expensive and using them as well as an airbrush is like having a dog and barking yourself.

 

You're right about mixing the paint. The matting agent really needs scraping off the bottom of the tin and the whole tin thoroughly mixing to the same consistency. I've even found that after a long period without use, the matting agent has once more stuck to the bottom of the tin. Maybe the main problems people are having are down to the fact that the old tins didn't need this level of extreme mixing. At the end of the day the paint is just nowhere near as good as the old stuff but decent results can still be acheived with the new paint. I'd say don't throw it in the bin.

[cctransuk]

I just prefer to control the pressure, paint flow and thinning myself. Some jobs need this. Don't get me wrong; the Halfords white primer is a good quality paint but aerosols are wasteful and expensive and using them as well as an airbrush is like having a dog and barking yourself.

 

You're right about mixing the paint. The matting agent really needs scraping off the bottom of the tin and the whole tin thoroughly mixing to the same consistency. I've even found that after a long period without use, the matting agent has once more stuck to the bottom of the tin. Maybe the main problems people are having are down to the fact that the old tins didn't need this level of extreme mixing. At the end of the day the paint is just nowhere near as good as the old stuff but decent results can still be acheived with the new paint. I'd say don't throw it in the bin.

 

That's fine - stick to your principles - but it's the results that count and, if the airbrush can't produce the goods, surely we have to consider the alternatives?

 

The fact is that a dense coat of white pigment is needed - this can be achieved quickly with rattle-can primer, or slowly with an airbrush; there is no third option, unfortunately.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[The Johnster]

Some good tips about stirring here.  But I have sworn off ever buying Humbrol enamel again after buying a pot of matt bauxite to repaint a fitted van with last year because I couldn't find a suitable colour in an acrylic range (I prefer acrylics because I don't like the smell of enamel paint). It dried to a high gloss finish which could only be dulled down with several coats of acrylic rattlecan matt varnish (Humbrol, ironically) to the extent that some of the finer moulded detail has been lost on this van.  This was a brand new pot bought specifically for this job, and very thoroughly stirred.

 

In fact the experience was the final nail in the coffin of my willingness to use enamel paints for anything, ever!

[cctransuk]

Some good tips about stirring here.  But I have sworn off ever buying Humbrol enamel again after buying a pot of matt bauxite to repaint a fitted van with last year because I couldn't find a suitable colour in an acrylic range (I prefer acrylics because I don't like the smell of enamel paint). It dried to a high gloss finish which could only be dulled down with several coats of acrylic rattlecan matt varnish (Humbrol, ironically) to the extent that some of the finer moulded detail has been lost on this van.  This was a brand new pot bought specifically for this job, and very thoroughly stirred.

 

In fact the experience was the final nail in the coffin of my willingness to use enamel paints for anything, ever!

 

Manually or mechanically stirred? As I and others have pointed out above, manual stirring will NEVER incorporate the matting agent in modern enamel paints.

 

Nonetheless, I dislike acrylic paints with the same ardour that others seem to hate enamels - and I quite like the smell !

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Torper]

I stir my enamels using a bent piece of s/steel rod in my ordinary DIY variable speed drill - see photo.  Contrary perhaps to appearances, this doesn't send paint flying all over the place and it works very well even in small tinlets, though you have to keep a firm grip on the tinlet!  I start off slow, end up at full speed. Notwithstanding the appearance of the drill chuck there's usually very little spatter.

 

On the subject of aerosols I've been using some Halfords primers recently and was surprised, and not a little dismayed, by the sheer volume of paint they spray out. This was perhaps particularly noticeable because I've also been doing some airbrushing and the delicate controlled nature of the spray produced by the airbrush compared very favourably with the possibly excessive volume from the aerosol.

 

DT

 

[BlackRat]

That's fine - stick to your principles - but it's the results that count and, if the airbrush can't produce the goods, surely we have to consider the alternatives?

 

The fact is that a dense coat of white pigment is needed - this can be achieved quickly with rattle-can primer, or slowly with an airbrush; there is no third option, unfortunately.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

No third option?

 

Surely It all depends on what (and the area of what) is being painted.

[cctransuk]

No third option?

 

Surely It all depends on what (and the area of what) is being painted.

 

Do you know of a third option? The only one that I can think of - and the one that I have used - is to brush paint MECHANICALLY MIXED Humbrol matt white; it'll take 2 - 3 coats, but it works.

 

The most recent job that I completed was priming bufferbeams before painting them red - I brush painted them using a Humbrol matt pale grey; it covered better than white, in less coats.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[BlackRat]

Do you know of a third option? The only one that I can think of - and the one that I have used - is to brush paint MECHANICALLY MIXED Humbrol matt white; it'll take 2 - 3 coats, but it works.

 

The most recent job that I completed was priming bufferbeams before painting them red - I brush painted them using a Humbrol matt pale grey; it covered better than white, in less coats.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Like I said, it depends on what is being painted, and what area.

 

I've used pva to prime figures prior to painting, and other things made of soft plastic or polythene, such as Peco buffer stops. Picked this up from military modelling where many figures we mounded in polythene or similar.

 

On cut and shut coach sides, like the B set conversion Im currently doing, I've used Tippex as a fine sandable primer, nothing else comes close and if thinned with solvent also acts as a bonding agent between the two sides being joined.

 

Cheers.

[justin1985]

I haven't yet had to use the new stock (label rather than printed lid) Humbrol enamels, but I do have some Matt white and black in stock for when the current tins run out. But with the older tins, I've had a lot more consistent results since bodging an IKEA coffee frother into a stirrer.

 

Nonetheless, I'm now much more fond of Vallejo arcylics - they seem to brush much better than any other model paint I've dealt with, as well as working well in an airbrush. The dropper bottles are perfect for using small amounts without wastage, as well as dispensing a set amount for mixing consistent mixes or dilution for airbrushing.

 

I noticed that EXPO tools are heavily promoting the MIG Ammo range of arcylics, which come with a ball bearing in the bottle to help with shaking (can be a bit hit and miss with Vallejo bottles, which sometimes give you a drop of a constituent pigment if you haven't shaken well enough.) Has anyone tried this range?

 

Justin