RMweb Gold Ramblin Rich Posted June 22, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 22, 2013 Having seen it used on "Eastwood Town" (amongst others), I was intrigued and impressed by the ideas behind 00-SF, 16.2mm gauge, mainly narrowing the crossing gaps to give better visual looks and less jolting of the wheels, but still keeping the back-to-back measurements at 14.5mm. I thought it would be a good standard to adopt for the pointwork in my planned for layout, combined with standard bullhead flexi track (SMP or C&L) for the plain track. As I'm waiting for the loft space work to be done, I thought it was a good idea to build a trial point as a test of a/ my abilities and b/ the viability with my stock I downloaded Templot (Big thanks to Martin Wynne for making this so useful!) and printed a B6 template. It took me about a week of evenings to get this far, but I'm quite satisfied with how it's turned out (pardon the pun!). The crossing vee was made as per Brian Harrap's method - bend the rail over, bend one leg out to the correct angle, solder up then file off to give the correct point. At this stage, I have not bought the various gauges to help with track building, so I've used lengths of 1mm copperclad to align the crossing rails, then set the other wing rails by using a set of Maygib wheels pushed over so the flange just misses the crossing nose & set the wing rails just touching the back of the opposite wheel. A but ropey (!) but seems to work The switch blades were marked at the planing length, then carefully tapered down to give the right shape, checking for fit often. I made sure the left hand diverging rail was 'set' at an angle & did my best to match the planing of the left switch blade to align with the angle. I've used the method suggested here for the tiebar, basically 2 lengths of wire taken out horizontally and attached to a gapped length of copperclad at the side - this allows the gap of the blades to be set quite easily before soldering. I'm sure this can be attached to whatever method of operation is chosen - I think I'll be using wire in tube or something similar - and then hidden by a dummy point motor or hand lever. Having tried with a short wheelbase wagon, the lack of jolting over the crossing is very reassuring. My Bachmann and Heljan stock seem fine. Although I haven't unpacked any Hornby stock yet, I was amazed that a Lima 31 seemed to have the right back-to-back to got through, although the flange depth might be an issue if there's any big solder lumps The only big issue now is the dodgy soldering needs tidying up & to cut the insulation joints to try it 'live' My impressions overall? The ability to 'tweak' the positioning slightly is an advantage of copperclad, although if I used the proper gauges it might not be so necessary. Perhaps the next thing to try is using glued plastic chairs instead of soldering. I'm confident I can get better at this; actually I am faintly amazed that I can do something once I stop prevaricating! And the fact that Sazzle thinks I'm mad for doing it and that it wouldn't work - well Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
blueeighties Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Well done Rich, excellent tutorial too. It feels great to create something doesn't it?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 The ice is broken, once more. No looking back........... Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Excellent Rich, 00-SF is something I want to have a go at myself so this has been very useful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordon s Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Congratulations Rich on your first build. The first one is always the hardest, but nothing beats the smoothness of hand built pointwork. A set of track gauges will be invaluable and help the build process considerably. Welcome to the world of 00-SF. I have to thank Martin Wynne for introducing me to this standard. I have no regrets at all and having trackwork that will accept most RTR and scale wheel sets is a blessing. Looking forward to seeing you making many more. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ramblin Rich Posted June 23, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 23, 2013 Edit, got a bit tangled trying to quote using mobile's keyboard! Thanks for replies, folks. You're right, Lee, it does feel good to actually make something, not just sit in front of a keyboard!I forgot to point out the insulation on the 'tiebar' where it passes under the opposite side, it does show in the pictures. Congratulations Rich on your first build. The first one is always the hardest, but nothing beats the smoothness of hand built pointwork. A set of track gauges will be invaluable and help the build process considerably. Welcome to the world of 00-SF. I have to thank Martin Wynne for introducing me to this standard. I have no regrets at all and having trackwork that will accept most RTR and scale wheel sets is a blessing. Looking forward to seeing you making many more. Thanks Gordon, as I said it was seeing your work that inspirer this, particulary the videos of various stock working through. Not too many more points for me, my empire is nowhere near your size! I agree the track gauges will be a good move, this has proved the concept and if it works this well nudging it by eye I'm convinced it's the way to go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jonte Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Well done, Ramblin Rich. Once you've got the btbs right, the gauges (available from Polybear) obviate the need for 'tweaking'. However: a note of caution for all 'OO-SF newbies' with regard to btbs of RTR stock and plastic (C&L) type kits which you'll find within post nos. 104 & 108 on the 'Ellerby' thread attached http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/53110-ellerby/page-5 Not to put you off, but just a 'heads up'. Thanks for bringing the tie bar method to my attention. I hadn't seen it before! Good luck, Jonte Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jonte Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 Further to the subject of tie bars, Ramblin Rich, are you adding the 'kicking straps' referred to in the linked thread ? Jonte Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ramblin Rich Posted June 24, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 24, 2013 Hi Jonte, thanks for remarks, I was aware of the C&L gauge issues as Martin Wynne has commented somewhere about them. Since I've suceeded in making the crossing vee & blades and managed to align the knuckle/wing rails well enough, I'm confident enough to not need the 'point in a bag' kits, just buy the chairs, timbers etc to make them up - altough as I said, the ability to fettle with copperclad is a bonus. I'm going to tidy up the soldering & try painting this example to see how it looks. I've an idea to try a flat botom example as well, the lack of chairs would be less of an issue then BUT there a lot more filing needed to create the blades, their housing and the crossing vee... As for the 'kicking straps' - no, I didn't fit them, the left had bar (looking from the toe end) acts to keep the blade in place anyway & I've managed to keep enough downward pressure on the right hand balde by tweaking the tiebar. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Dread Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Well done that man. It's like riding a bike, once you learn you never forget. However, you may fall off once or twice! If I may venture a word of advice, cut the sleepers for insulation as soon as you solder the first rail on. You will find now that a short circuit is hard to find if you have missed just one cut or that just one cut is not as good as it should be. Onwards and upwards ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ramblin Rich Posted June 24, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 24, 2013 Thanks for that - useful idea , as you say finding a short will be a problem! I intend to do a bit of 'Dremmeling' to tidy up the soldering & create the gaps by taking the copperclad using that rather than an actual saw cut slot. The tiebar may be an ussue too - I'll re-cut the slot as there may be some bridding due to the joints being close together. Hopefully more pictures later this week.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium DLT Posted June 24, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 24, 2013 Nice one Rich, and well done for taking the plunge and showing that its not the "Black Art" that its often made out to be. All the best, Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkC Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 Nice job, Rich. Well done. You will definitely find it easier with the gauges too. The advice about cutting the gaps as you go along is very sound. Also, if possible try & gap the copper as close to the rails as you can, as otherwise your eye tends to get 'drawn' to them, even after painting and ballasting. I like the tiebars too - I'd never seen that done; will try it myself at the next session of point building I have. As others have said, welcome to the world of home built track Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ramblin Rich Posted June 24, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 24, 2013 No pictures, but I've done the grinding to gap the sleepers & as Jon (judge d) said - you can't trace a short easily...! Fortunately a bit of going over with a file cured things (must have been a fine thread of copper somewhere) & now I've got a point with 2 insulated main rails, point blades live to the relavent rails and a separate crossing / frog. Just top attach need some plain track & a changeover switch wired in to test fully.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ramblin Rich Posted June 25, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 25, 2013 It works, Grommit! A very ropey set up with ageing Duette, wires shoved into Peco track, fishplated to the 'masterpiece' & away it goes! First off, a Heljan 33/1 - smooth with a capital smoo... Then a very tired Lima 31; ignoring the slightly hesitant running due to dirty wheels, it went through with no problem! (apologies for poorly lit phone camera pictures) I couldn't be more chuffed if I was a Churchward 4 cylinder on 100% cutoff! If I can bodge this kind of construction by eye & get this kind of result, it's an absolute no-brainer to adopt 00-SF for all my pointwork. The fact that it seemingly doesn't require a rewheel on the 31 is a big bonus too. I just need to improve the looks a bit - at the moment it's in the 'ugly, but works well' category - bit like me really Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 Rich You have built the turnout really well and I do like the tiebar arrangement. I wish my first attempt was that good. I am not surprised that you are so pleased with it. One bit of constructive comment is that you have been a bit heavy with the solder. When I build copperclad turnouts I use an Antex 25 watt soldering iron with a 3mm tip, I use plenty of liquid flux and the solder wire is 0.7mm thick (get the thinnest you can) and I try and use as little solder as possible. My aim is to have a small blob of solder to give the impression of a chair, the blob turns out to be smaller than a C&L chair but not flat, my idea is to give a hint of a chair from a distance once its painted and weathered. This all comes with practice and I guess personal preference. I look forward to seeing your progress Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ramblin Rich Posted June 26, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 26, 2013 Hi thanks for that - I agree, the soldering is the main thing that needs practise! I actually do have a 25w Antex, the trick I suppose is getting the amount of solder correct. I've been sloshing flux onto the joint, putting the flat of the bit onto the copperclad 'timber' with the point against the rails, then letting the solder run into the point between the two. Do you run the solder into the joint when the iron is in place, or load the iron first - I'm not sure I could 'carry' the solder to the joint safely! To be honest, the setup making this one was not ideal as I've been working in the evening under artifical light & my eysight's shot! I'm sure I'll improve - as said, this was only really a trial to see if the I could get the hang of Templot, making components & setting it up by eye; having suceeded beyond what I thought I could do, I hope the next ones will be better. First step will be to get a set of gauges... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R A Watson Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 For tidy soldering use 60/40 cored electrical solder without any other flux, put the iron one side of the rail and the end of the solder wire on the other. When the joint is hot the flux will run under the rail and the solder will follow shortly, result one tidy joint with no excess solder. It takes some practice but is well worth trying. Wally Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ramblin Rich Posted June 26, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 26, 2013 Thanks, Wally - hadn't thought of using the iron on opposite side, I'll gve it a try! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted June 26, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 26, 2013 For tidy soldering use 60/40 cored electrical solder without any other flux, put the iron one side of the rail and the end of the solder wire on the other. When the joint is hot the flux will run under the rail and the solder will follow shortly, result one tidy joint with no excess solder. It takes some practice but is well worth trying. Wally Use the iron on the viewing side, the solder "blob" is then hidden by the rail. File off the excess solder to clear wheel flanges if required. SS Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
R A Watson Posted June 26, 2013 Share Posted June 26, 2013 Use the iron on the viewing side, the solder "blob" is then hidden by the rail. File off the excess solder to clear wheel flanges if required. SS Lift the solder wire away from the joint as soon as the molten solder is seen under the iron and you should not get an appreciable blob, as I said it might take some practice. Wally Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dessire_luvals Posted June 28, 2013 Share Posted June 28, 2013 Lift the solder wire away from the joint as soon as the molten solder is seen under the iron and you should not get an appreciable blob, as I said it might take some practice. Wally Welcome to the world of handbuilt track! Looking at your solder joints I think your biggest issue is not getting the copperclad and rail clean enough before you start. I always clean the sleeper strips with a fibreglass brush before I cut to length. I do the same with the rail before cutting/filing/bending. I then use Carrs flux with a brush and then the small gauge multi core solder. With everything very clean you don't need your 25W iron on the joint for more than a couple of seconds before applying the solder. Another option I use is to actual load solder on to the Iron tip and then apply to the joint. This takes a bit more practice to get the amount of solder just right. Good luck with the next turnout or double slip ;-) Rgds Russell Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ramblin Rich Posted June 28, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 28, 2013 Hi Russell - thanks for that, I'll try a more thorough cleaning process next time. Thanks to everyone who's replied, lots of encouragement is giving me the confidence to carry on with this method. Next step is to order some gauges & just check I do have the dimensions correct.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Welcome to the world of handbuilt track! Looking at your solder joints I think your biggest issue is not getting the copperclad and rail clean enough before you start. I always clean the sleeper strips with a fibreglass brush before I cut to length. I do the same with the rail before cutting/filing/bending. I then use Carrs flux with a brush and then the small gauge multi core solder. With everything very clean you don't need your 25W iron on the joint for more than a couple of seconds before applying the solder. Another option I use is to actual load solder on to the Iron tip and then apply to the joint. This takes a bit more practice to get the amount of solder just right. Good luck with the next turnout or double slip ;-) Rgds Russell I use a very fine file to deburr the egdes on the copperclad strip, which I guess cleanes it a bit. But never find the need to clean either the rail or sleepers with anything. As every type of liquid flux I use seems to do its job. Might be because I use solder with lead in it I use Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium polybear Posted July 8, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 8, 2013 Hi Rich, It's really nice to see the Gauges actually being put to good use - I do wonder how many of the gauges I've supplied have actually seen action And it's also really nice to see someone prepared to persevere when all doesn't go exactly as planned first time around. I look forward to the day when quality control gets tightened up... Then along comes LIMA and surprises us all - nice one! polybear Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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