For those interested in old cars.

[28XX]

Peugeot 404 aka gasoline camel.

[russ p]

I can't see how they can stop you driving away Andy.

If it fails on something the testing station can't repair and where are they going to store all there failed vehicles?

Diesel testing is a bit of a lottery, mine has no cat (ZR) but it may have had one when built the tester told me he has to ask the question "have you removed the cat?"

If you say no its OK

[Southern Steve]

I had a double take on this - a R0ver 75 with ABS sensors? - shouldn't it be a big free wheel knob on the dash more like!

I'd completely forgotten that last. and rather elegant, Rover.was also a 75.

 

ROVER 75.jpg

 

I realise I've lived through three versions - there was the  P3 sports saloon of 1948, then for me the most memorable was the P4 Cyclops of 1950.

Good for 90mph they were - - and still with the freeheel knob on the dash.

There was a classic tanklike dignified  Auntie P4 I saw recently advertised as eligble for this years Mille Miglia!

 

The crummiest of all was the last pathetic Rover 100 - the old top end model now seemingly a mere re-badged  Allegro..

dh

 

Putting on my anorak, I think you'll find the last Rover 100 range was the last knockings of the old BL Metro, not the Allegro!

[simon b]

Took the van of its MOT last week, and was told that from May the MOT for diesels is changing, with any smoke showing will result in a fail. A friend has also heard that if you fail at a test station you will no longer be able to drive the vehicle anywhere....

 

Its going to be difficult times for diesel owners soon....

Not quite, diesel smoke testing depends on the year of the vehicle and if it should have a cat or not. Excessive smoke will fail the test, but you are allowed a fair bit. 

 

If you put your car in for mot before the old test has expired, and it fails, the car is classed as un-roadworthy and any remaining mot is void.

[Guest]

Putting on my anorak, I think you'll find the last Rover 100 range was the last knockings of the old BL Metro, not the Allegro!

Quite.

 

The last and most terrible Rover was the City Rover. A rebadged Tata Indica from India.

It wouldn't have been so bad if it were priced appropriately but it was basically a Lada for Volkswagen money.

[Horsetan]

Quite.The last and most terrible Rover was the City Rover. A rebadged Tata Indica from India.It wouldn't have been so bad if it were priced appropriately but it was basically a Lada for Volkswagen money.

I called it the Sh*ttyRover. Build quality was....disappointing, especially for the six/seven grand demanded by Rover. If it had been set at, say, five grand, that might have been more realistic, though it still wouldn't have sold like hot cakes, given that the UK hadn't really had mass experience of Indian car-making. Well, apart from the electric Noddy car called the G-sWiz and the Tata Mercedes W126-lookalike pickup trucks.

 

On the other hand, Rover (badly) needed revenue if it was to have any realistic chance of developing all new designs, so it was caught in a vicious circle. Price the Indica too high, and the punters stay away; price it too low, and you're losing money on every one sold.....and the punters still stay away once the build quality stories do the rounds.

[russ p]

Yesterday my mrs bought an MG3 ,I'd not thought about them before but one appeared on a saved search I have on eBay.

We went to a main dealer in Brandon as her polo was getting on a bit and it hated me!

I had a look round the MG and the suspension arrangement is identical to the Maestro/mk2 golf

So not masses of bushes to wear out

Its not fast but no slouch like her polo and handles lovely has a lot of toys and is very comfortable.

Shame there isn't a proper hot one or turbo diesel as I think if there were I could live with one.

It was designed at Longbridge and assembled there though this has now ceased and the are wholely built in China

But a reasonable and well built two year old car with 24k for 6k can't be all that bad

Anyone looking for a cheap car with a bit of character should have a look

[APOLLO]

 

Thanks for posting - brings back memories.

 

I bought a brand spanking new Wedge back in November 1975 (aged 23 !!). A Princess 1800HL, in metallic Reynard with black vinyl roof  same as the Wolseley above.

A wonderfully futuristic car which turned heads back then.

 

So much crap (and some truth !!) is aimed at these and other BL cars of the 70's. I had mine 7 years and 80 odd thousand miles, only a few small problems all cheaply solved. Rust did start around front apron early on, quickly sorted with Waxoyl. That B series engine would run for ever though.. She had a single carb and I bought and fitted a BL special tuning twin carb kit - MPG went down drastically with little improvement in performance so this was quickly removed & sold - young and daft back then !!!!

 

A grand car to drive- lovely smooth Hydragas ride, bit heavy steering though (no power). tons and tons of room.

 

I've not seen one on the road for a long, long, long time !!

 

Brit15

[BernardTPM]

And that particular version was the very last Wolseley model.

[Southern Steve]

BMC and BL paid the price for advanced engineering I always though, look at the ADO16, front wheel, gearbox in the sump, hydrolastic suspension and loads of space inside.

 

 

Then look at the opposition, Ford's rear wheel drive Cortinas, Vauxhall's Victors, Rootes Arrow and Audax ranges....................boring.

 

 

 

Folk forget, the 1100/1300 was the best selling car in the UK for years, outselling all of the above, not to mention the brilliant Mini, that everyone else ended up copying!

 

 

 

Being engineering trailblazers is a risky market strategy.

[Wolseley]

A grand car to drive- lovely smooth Hydragas ride, bit heavy steering though (no power). tons and tons of room.

 

 

I've never driven one of the "wedges" although I did know someone who had a Princess wedge - the car is now in the hands of a member of the Austin club and is still on the road.  I was in Scotland in 1975 when the range was released and I recall walking past Duthie's in Montrose and seeing a brand new Wolseley and stopping to have a good look.  The sight of a new Wolseley was a bit odd to me, as the Wolseley marque was discontinued in Australia in 1966 with the Wolseley 24/80.  I may be wrong, but I think the Wolseley was the only one of the "wedges" to have power steering as standard.

 

I learnt to drive on a Mark I Austin 1800, so I know what you mean about the handling, room and steering (yes, the 1800 had Hydrolastic rather than Hydragas, but one was just a development of the other and they were both well ahead of what the opposition had to offer).  I didn't think anything of it at the time, but I'm sure if I drove an 1800 again, I would find the steering heavy.

[uax6]

Thanks for posting - brings back memories.

 

I bought a brand spanking new Wedge back in November 1975 (aged 23 !!). A Princess 1800HL, in metallic Reynard with black vinyl roof  same as the Wolseley above.

A wonderfully futuristic car which turned heads back then.

 

So much crap (and some truth !!) is aimed at these and other BL cars of the 70's. I had mine 7 years and 80 odd thousand miles, only a few small problems all cheaply solved. Rust did start around front apron early on, quickly sorted with Waxoyl. That B series engine would run for ever though.. She had a single carb and I bought and fitted a BL special tuning twin carb kit - MPG went down drastically with little improvement in performance so this was quickly removed & sold - young and daft back then !!!!

 

A grand car to drive- lovely smooth Hydragas ride, bit heavy steering though (no power). tons and tons of room.

 

I've not seen one on the road for a long, long, long time !!

 

Brit15

Funnily enough I saw one the other day, in BL Sludge Green, in Kings Lynn. A real surprise, as the last one I saw (also in Lynn) was about twenty years ago!

 

Andy g

[Horsetan]

.....Being engineering trailblazers is a risky market strategy.

Just ask NSU. They were about 15 years ahead of the game in saloon car body design, but the engine had problems up to about 1971/2, which didn't do a whole lot for the reputation.....

[jwealleans]

I test drove a wedge Princess for the son of a friend who was learning to drive (and wanted something which would transport his substantial keyboard and speakers to band gigs). It was surprisingly smooth and quick, I thought - a bit heavy on the steering, but a much better experience than I was expecting.

Edited April 11, 2018 by jwealleans

[alastairq]

Reference the Cityrover?

 

One was driven from London to Delhi by a couple of students, in, I believe, circa 2006-7?

 

The journey was completed without mishap!

 

Cannot imagine a bog-standard Ford Fiesta managing to achieve the same?  Not without losing half its suspension, and lower body panels?

 

{ I picked the  Fiesta at random..insert any small, standard, bottom-of-the-range hatchback being sold new at the time? Or, any big new standard car?]

 

EDit...found reference  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rover_CityRover

Edited April 11, 2018 by alastairq

[MJI]

Yesterday my mrs bought an MG3 ,I'd not thought about them before but one appeared on a saved search I have on eBay.

We went to a main dealer in Brandon as her polo was getting on a bit and it hated me!

I had a look round the MG and the suspension arrangement is identical to the Maestro/mk2 golf

So not masses of bushes to wear out

Its not fast but no slouch like her polo and handles lovely has a lot of toys and is very comfortable.

Shame there isn't a proper hot one or turbo diesel as I think if there were I could live with one.

It was designed at Longbridge and assembled there though this has now ceased and the are wholely built in China

But a reasonable and well built two year old car with 24k for 6k can't be all that bad

Anyone looking for a cheap car with a bit of character should have a look

 

Is it K powered?

 

The Chinese got the original engineers involved and fixed the reliability issues.

 

I think it is now a 1500

[Fat Controller]

Reference the Cityrover?

 

One was driven from London to Delhi by a couple of students, in, I believe, circa 2006-7?

 

The journey was completed without mishap!

 

Cannot imagine a bog-standard Ford Fiesta managing to achieve the same?  Not without losing half its suspension, and lower body panels?

 

{ I picked the  Fiesta at random..insert any small, standard, bottom-of-the-range hatchback being sold new at the time? Or, any big new standard car?]

 

EDit...found reference  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rover_CityRover

And if anyone's interested in one, Lynne's mother's one is for sale; currently at her cousin's place in Meir, Stoke-on-Trent. 

[Horsetan]

Reference the Cityrover?

 

One was driven from London to Delhi by a couple of students, in, I believe, circa 2006-7?

 

The journey was completed without mishap!

 

Regardless of that particular feat, the fact is that the car didn't sell, at a time when Rover badly needed it to. You can subject any car to any sort of test but, if the buying public don't like it because, for example, they think it's a bit shonky.....they won't buy it!

[The Stationmaster]

Thanks for posting - brings back memories.

 

I bought a brand spanking new Wedge back in November 1975 (aged 23 !!). A Princess 1800HL, in metallic Reynard with black vinyl roof  same as the Wolseley above.

A wonderfully futuristic car which turned heads back then.

 

So much crap (and some truth !!) is aimed at these and other BL cars of the 70's. I had mine 7 years and 80 odd thousand miles, only a few small problems all cheaply solved. Rust did start around front apron early on, quickly sorted with Waxoyl. That B series engine would run for ever though.. She had a single carb and I bought and fitted a BL special tuning twin carb kit - MPG went down drastically with little improvement in performance so this was quickly removed & sold - young and daft back then !!!!

 

A grand car to drive- lovely smooth Hydragas ride, bit heavy steering though (no power). tons and tons of room.

 

I've not seen one on the road for a long, long, long time !!

 

Brit15

 

They were nice cars to drive although the one we had at work was a hard used pool car and the reliability dropped off.  But it had been well looked after by its chauffeur driver when it was used originally as a 'status car' so body wise it was in good condition and I liked the handling and road holding.

[Horsetan]

....I bought a brand spanking new Wedge back in November 1975 (aged 23 !!). ....

 

I often wonder why it wasn't given a hatchback when its shape was so suitable for it. I think that only happened when resurrected as the Ambassador.

[APOLLO]

I often wonder why it wasn't given a hatchback when its shape was so suitable for it. I think that only happened when resurrected as the Ambassador.

 

I read somewhere that had they done so it would have taken sales from the (then) proposed new Rover SD1 - which was a hatchback.

 

All cars (compared to today) were a bit naff back then in various ways. My wedge didn't even have a radio as standard. Jap cars were streets ahead with kit - one reason why they sold well. As to reliability, my wedge never left me stranded, but had some daft recurring simple faults mostly, body related. The engine, transmission, suspension and the very basic electrics - (no electronics thank god)) were more or less bulletproof (on mine at least).

 

The only cars I have had expensive problems with were my two Audis, back in the 80's. They did fly though (Four sprung duck technique !!!!)

 

Brit15   

[MJI]

BL did keep their engines going a long time, a direct successor to the B series is still in production.

 

B series developed into E series and O series

 

O series developed into Perkins Prima, S Series, and M series (16v)

 

Perkins Prima developed into L Series.

 

L Series developed into Project Storm and G Series

 

Project Storm resulted in the Land Rover TD5

 

G Series made in India and still in production.

[russ p]

The E series was new for the maxi in 69 it was envisaged that it would be more widely used including 4 and 6cyl versions transversely mounted in the middle of a sports car called MGD the F was a reworked version of this many years later using metro parts where the D was to use two maxi subframes and hydrolastic suspension

 

I digress ,the E was used in Australia quite widely with a 2.6 version powering the marina and in SD1s in south Africa

The E6 ended in 1981 at the end of princess production but the E4 was mildly reworked into the R series for the maestro but with an end on VW gearbox and then a bigger reworking to become the S series with a belt driven can.

It was to have received a 16v head for a reworked rover version of the montego which unfortunately didn't see the light of day

 

The reason why the princess did not have a hatchback was that BL management did not want it taking sales from the maxi...... The sensible thing to have done would have been hatch versions of the princess and the allegro and discontinue the maxi.

 

The MG3 is not K series unfortunately but a GM unit, its not bad but makes maximum power at a relatively high 6000rpm

Real shame there is no G series diesel as if they are like the L series would make it fly.

My ZR has an L series remapped for 155 bhp

Edited April 11, 2018 by russ p

[Wolseley]

A couple of years ago I put together a piece on the BL "wedge" family for the car club magazine.  The main sources of information I found were AROnline and the Leyland Princess website but there were other sources I can't now recall.  Here's the bit I had about why no hatchback:

 

At the time of the car’s launch, British Leyland’s publicity said: “Product planners felt that in the class that the car was aimed at, a hatchback was seen as being somewhat out of place . The hatchback concept was being seen exclusively as the province of the small car, whereas the ADO71 was conceived to replace not only ADO17, but the Austin 3-Litre as well. Besides, BLMC was already well-served in the middle market with their hatchback Maxi; they did not want the new car to take sales away from it.” and that “The Engineering Department was also encouraged to shy away from creating the car as five-door model because it would have added extra weight and complexity, with only marginal improvements in accommodation. Market research for BLMC also indicated that a saloon was what customers wanted.”

 

Off the record comments by those involved in the car’s development, however, gave the reason as internal company politics and the thought that the new car might compete with the Rover SD1, and take away sales from its stablemate.

 

I think that Harris Mann is a much underrated designer.

[Wolseley]

Peugeot 404 aka gasoline camel.

 

We knew someone who bought a new 404 not long after the car came out.  He kept talking about how good the car was and how economical it was.  Not long afterwards, he got a position in the New Guinea Police Force and the family moved to Port Moresby.  Hhe took the car with him.  When they visited us a year or two later in Sydney, he mentioned that the car was running as well as ever, but for some reason the petrol consumption was much worse.