For those interested in old cars.

[Oldddudders]

I have never sat in an AC, although have seen many, many examples, mainly Cobras both genuine and faux. But quite some years back, late wife Deb was taken round the full Le Mans course in, I think, a 2.6 litre Aceca. It was in convoy, so nothing like racing speed, of course, but she said it was absolutely lovely.

 

On the same occasion, my allocated vehicle was a Morgan, fairly modern, LHD, not driven by the owner(!), and with no seatbelts! As we'd overtaken several other cars between the pits and the Dunlop chicane, I was certain I was gonna die. The cheerful Dutchie driving (probably not Verstappen) managed to keep it all together, clearly. 

[Hobby]

21 minutes ago, PhilJ W said:

The Austin seven engine was produced with gradual improvements from 1922 to 1962 (latterly by Reliant) which makes it second to the Volkswagen engine.

 

Nope, the A series ran from 1951 to 2000 (last of the Minis), 49 years. Like the VW probably one of the most "unmolested" as well. 

[alastairq]

I should add, the timeline for the Ford inline 6 cylinder OHV engines alone is from 1952, to 2010 [ final production date of the inline six, in Australia!]

 

Ford also sold this engine for use in various industrial applications.

[alastairq]

The General Motors V6 engine ran in various iterations from 1980 to 2010 [albeit in China]

[boxbrownie]

3 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

I'd think the VW flat four would have to be a contender, 1930s to around 2000?

 

John

Probably so…..but also a bit like Trigger’s broom 

[Dunsignalling]

20 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

Probably so…..but also a bit like Trigger’s broom 

And as for BMC A-series motors being "unmolested", in our misspent youth, a late pal of mine had a 1950 Minor fitted with a late 1098cc example bored out to 1220cc and fitted with Hillman Imp pistons, a lumpy cam and 2-inch Strombergs!

 

First block went porous with that amount of overbore but the second one was fine. Unfortunately, he miscalculated the amount to be skimmed off the modified head resulting in a rather excessive CR. New bearings were scheduled for every third weekend for a while, then an extra head gasket eased matters until he got another head sorted....

 

John

Edited September 6, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[Hobby]

26 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

And as for BMC A-series motors being "unmolested",

 

As in apart from making it larger the basic design stayed the same over the years... Most engines got modified by owners in the way you describe but other than a larger engine size and fuel injection the A in the last Mini was essentially the same is the original...

Edited September 6, 2021 by Hobby

[alastairq]

I once had a 1098cc A series out of a Midget [A struggle?]   It had been modlified with , at one time, a larger valve head..

The valves being big enough to need the block relieving at certain points next to each cylinder.

The two centre cylinders had their reliefs next to each other....and as a result the gasket 'land' was insufficient, so the gasket blew roundy around every 180 miles.

The engine was in my old Cannon trials car....so taking a gasket, torque wrench, and bottle of water  was a necessity....changing a head gasket by the roadside was not a problem, and took less than 30 minutes..

Went like a bomb [with a short fuse]!!

Then I got sick of the constant spannering and fitted a 1275 cc engine from a Marina van.  I left it more or less as it came [low compression and all] but with a 1 1/2 inch single SU carb [better for plonking]  The car went well, but I found out the propshaft eyes were cracked, the hard way....Then the rear axle A frame was too weak, and so on.  Now it will run a Ford sidevalve E93A engine and converted box...which is what Mike Cannon would have fitted to it originally [whenever it was in the 1950's he made it?], judging by all the mounting holes...The sidevalve engine didn't rev as high as the A series, so top speed reduced to around 55 mph or so... But hey, sitting on half a bus seat, all exposed to the rain trying to hold a short wheelbase car in roughly a straight line at any speed over 45 mph is a challenge. The Ford mtor is a lot lighter than the A series....and is tuned anyway....on a rolling road there was around 55 bhp at the wheels...twin 1 1/8ths SU carbs , modified exhaust, 8 horse Ford cyl head....100E cam...all cooled by a mini radiator laid on its side[with a solid gasket cap]...

Other road going Cannons have things like Zetecs and crossflows in them, with slanting radiators..the 'profile' of the car is remarkably thin....Mind, they're not still using Mike Cannon's original idea for rear suspension either....Or front suspension.....unlike mine!

Edited September 6, 2021 by alastairq

[alastairq]

7 minutes ago, Hobby said:

the A in the last Mini was essentially the same is the original..

 Aside from block, crank, etc etc   

[Dunsignalling]

Talking of Cannons, Alastair, I spotted this deliciously patinated example at Tothill Services on the A34 during our MacDonalds breakfast pitstop en-route to Railex in 2018. Not yours, is it?

 

John

 

 

 

Edited September 6, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, alastairq said:

 Aside from block, crank, etc etc   

 

I once had a motorway recovery repair of a failed Allegro (1275cc A series) fuel pump.

The bloke found a pump from a Metro (A+) and hey they're the same engine....

 

After a second fuel pump failure not long afterwards...

Looks like the old A series had a bit more cam operating the pump. The actuating arm was bent and the thing stopped working once the pivot pin was wrenched out of the casting.

 

Fishing all the bits out of the sump/gearbox was super fun.

[Hobby]

I thought the block was the same, Alastair, at least my book on the engine doesn't mention other blocks being used, though dependant on use of course the crank, etc., could be modified as appropriate... 

[alastairq]

MArina 1275 blocks slightly different to Sprite 1275 blocks [for example], regarding oil filter position, etc. Cylinder heads varied over the decades as well.

To convert Marina engine for inline A -series gearbox meant completely stripping, changing the engine end plates over, oil pump, etc etc...not to mention starters etc.  [Marina used Triumph-sourced inline gearboxes, a very heavy lump of a boat anchor if ever I saw one!  The A-series [ribbed] gearbox was a tiny lightweight thing in comparison....nice box, poor 1st gear strength however]

 

Let's face it, all the engines mentioned received various upgrades as times past...

 

HAs anyone mentioned Citroen's old 4 banger motor yet?   Started off pre-the-wawer [don't mention the wawer!], ended up...oooo...DS, etc?  H-van?

[alastairq]

Or Renault's Ventoux motors?

[As the Germans would say, von-too-von-too-von-too]

[alastairq]

22 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Talking of Cannons, Alastair, I spotted this deliciously patinated example at Tothill Services on the A34 during our MacDonalds breakfast pitstop en-route to Railex in 2018. Not yours, is it?

 

John

 

 

No, not mine, that is an active trials car...patination? That's just trials dirt!  But, it's supposed to be running a 1172cc sidevalve Ford engine still..although judging by what appears to be the top of a large Su carburettor on the off side, I also suspect someone hasn't yet got around to telling the nobzinswansea about the 2 litre Ford engine [or is it an Fiat engine?]

The front axle isn;t original either  [Mine is..Ford Y type beam, Morris Minor [pre-WW2] hubs, gawdnoze what steering box & drag link..probably Standard, it's on its side anyway..]

Not built for speed [which is an accidental by-product in a trials-orientated car]...As can be seen, not much depth to the car at all...so occupants well exposed....bit like riding a motorcycle, without the falling-off bit?

 

Notice how huge the windscreen is? When one quite short wiper blade covers the lot???  Much like fitting an Avon fairing?  Probably running out of volunteer passengers until the owner fitted it?  I know I did!  Mine is made from part of an old bus timetable!

Edited September 6, 2021 by alastairq

[alastairq]

48 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Talking of Cannons, Alastair, I spotted this deliciously patinated example at Tothill Services on the A34 during our MacDonalds breakfast pitstop en-route to Railex in 2018. Not yours, is it?

 

John

 

 

 

  This was mine well over a decade or so ago, with last EX,whose face says it all, passengering...it would be on a Kyrle Trial, [Ross-on-Wye]

 

 

Followed by the upgraded version with Marina engine, and windscreen, on a later Edinburgh Trial. Reg number plate moved by then, to a stick on DIY jobbie on the bonnet, like an E-type jag..only invisible if looking up from below ground level!!  The one above kept getting knocked off by rocks and flies...

 

 

Immediately prior to registration mot...1996..

 

 

My first trials Skoda Estelle behind it.....

 

The bonnet bulge is a badly made used bus ticket holder, re-cycled.

 

Above is how the Cannon arrived at my gaff....a freebie from an old friend....a bit or a wreck really, but, with a good battery and a pint of fresh fuel it started and drove....Tiniest turning circle I've ever seen too, and fiddle brakes.  Could almost turn round in its own length. The trailer is what Mike Cannon would have supplied with this car originally...he provided almost a turnkey trials car service....rock up, hook up, and ready to trial.

 

Driver's eye view originally. BDC might mean ''Bedford Drivers Club'..I think?  Lots of ancient spares sitting in footwell...very strong stink of the aromatic stale petrol too...

 

 

 

 

Edited September 6, 2021 by alastairq

[boxbrownie]

2 hours ago, alastairq said:

 Aside from block, crank, etc etc   

Don’t forget the head, we had an inclined valve Longman head in our Mini racer…..brrrm brrrm

[boxbrownie]

2 hours ago, Hobby said:

I thought the block was the same, Alastair, at least my book on the engine doesn't mention other blocks being used, though dependant on use of course the crank, etc., could be modified as appropriate... 

they changed block castings a few times, one of the the biggest changes was from the original “bolt on” cam follower covers to a solid block casting, and of course quite a few capacity casting differences, but yes basically the same design.

[boxbrownie]

2 hours ago, alastairq said:

..

 

HAs anyone mentioned Citroen's old 4 banger motor yet?   Started off pre-the-wawer [don't mention the wawer!], ended up...oooo...DS, etc?  H-van?

Oh yes…..don’t forget the 2CV engine……basically the same from pre war until last production in the 80”s

[Guest]

1 minute ago, boxbrownie said:

they changed block castings a few times, one of the the biggest changes was from the original “bolt on” cam follower covers to a solid block casting, and of course quite a few capacity casting differences, but yes basically the same design.

 

In Mini terms the 850 & 998 engines were surprisingly (to me) different considering the minimal change in capacity.

The 998 being designed to be much stronger for the strenuous job of propelling a Riley Elf. Different block, different pistons. Camshaft given the heady luxury of whitemetal bearings instead of just running in the block.

 

[Dunsignalling]

33 minutes ago, 30801 said:

 

In Mini terms the 850 & 998 engines were surprisingly (to me) different considering the minimal change in capacity.

The 998 being designed to be much stronger for the strenuous job of propelling a Riley Elf. Different block, different pistons. Camshaft given the heady luxury of whitemetal bearings instead of just running in the block.

 

I think the 850 was directly derived from the earlier 803cc and 948cc engines fitted to the A30, Minor etc. 

 

The 998 represented an update in anticipation of a need to increase power output. It also featured, of course, in in the non-'S' version of the Mini Cooper, with twin carbs. I have a vague feeling that later Elves might also have been so fitted but Wolseley Hornets only ever had one.

 

John

Edited September 6, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[steve1]

This latest edition of the mag has an article about the Triumph Herald Hatchback as mentioned in an earlier post. (My old mate gets a sort on namecheck.)

 

That wasn't why I bought it though, it has a big article on the original Saab 900...drool, dribble, etc.

 

steve

 

 

Edited September 6, 2021 by steve1
Add image!

[PhilJ W]

Another long lived engine was the Jowett flat twin. It first saw the light of day in 1906 although serious production did not start until 1910. It continued, in the Bradford van until the company folded in 1954. The only modification was an increase in capacity on three occasions raising from 816cc to 1059cc and the means of ignition from magneto to coil and distributer.

Edited September 6, 2021 by PhilJ W

[steve1]

Talking of magazines, I found this in amongst some of my old books. 

 

steve

 

 

Edited September 7, 2021 by steve1
Extra images

[Northmoor]

22 minutes ago, steve1 said:

Talking of magazines, I found this in amongst some of my old books. 

 

steve

 

 

Presumably you can read the whole magazine in about ten seconds?