For those interested in old cars.

[PhilJ W]

[Dunsignalling]

10 hours ago, MJI said:

 

French cars need more work.

 

But I found big Vauxhalls were pretty good for reliability. Had 5 of them, but last was penultimate year of manufacture

My motoring record: Sit-up-and-beg Ford Pop (which I made up out of two while I was still at school) A Reliant Regal, Renault 10, Vauxhall 2300SSL (much abused/neglected before I got it and rather a moneypit as a consequence) two more Renaults (12, 18), a Mk2 Fiesta (most boring thing I've ever driven, and no more Fords after that, ever) then three consecutive Peugeots (205, 206, 207) though the 206 was (AFAIK) built in Coventry. I currently have a Skoda Yeti CR170.

 

The 18 fell apart from old age and rot, albeit that it was into its teens with well over 100k on the clock by then. A number of small things going wrong towards the end sealed its fate. However, with that exception, none of the "French" ones needed or received much attention beyond routine servicing. The Renaults I maintained myself (I remember handbrake cables on the R10 being "interesting", requiring a special spanner) but by the time I got the Peugeots, I didn't have anywhere sensible to do it and had enough cash to pay for professional servicing. 

 

None, even though most were 5+ years old when I got them, ever gave as much trouble as my late father's company Fords and Vauxhalls. 

 

John 

Edited May 22, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[alastairq]

9 hours ago, Nick C said:

for the simple reason that they can't be operated by feel alone,

 When I first started instructing on military vehicles, the wagon of the hour was the LeyDaf 4 tonner. [With Bedford MK and MJ following behind, but rarer...Followed again by the TM 8 tonner..The 14 tonner TM  3 axle jobbie was fast disappearing from mainstream Army use by then.]

Anyway, the LeyDaf 4 tonner had a dashboard that was littered with all sorts of random switches. It looked as if whoever assembled the things in the factory had been to a bin of pick n mix, then dropped the box on the way back!

Every switch was a different shape, having  a different 'feel'.

Such disharmony would have had no place whatsoever in a Bentley [Like indicators in a BMW?}

Yet, the logic was overwhelming!

Not from the more usual viewpoint of obviating the need for the driver to take their eyes off the road...but, from the viewpoint of that ''second'' side to the light switch. Namely, when in 'convoy' lighting mode.

Used when driving in a tactical manner after dark..where absolutely no lights whatsoever are able to be used [aside from the little 5 amp indirect 'convoy' light under the rear, which points at the white painted blob, often on the diff cover]

Under those conditions the driver needed to tell which was what, without benefit of any lighting being available.

Then, it all made sense....Function before fashion..

[Dunsignalling]

7 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

 

And, in my youth, I remember many older drivers (most of whom had learned to drive during WW2) being rather disdainful of "modern innovations" like the synchromesh gearbox. 

 

"Proper" (implication, older male) drivers simply didn't need it.....

 

John

Edited May 22, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[Hobby]

13 hours ago, alastairq said:

I don't have any facts to hand....simply because I don't bother.

I simply read the local news online for the area...and I observe when I travel around the area.

Currently there are two cars  in fields on their roofs, on the B1248 between here & Beverley. Recent too [they weren't there last week, in other words]...

They won't be there next week, as they get recovered quickly enough. Farmers don't like them left lying around for too long.

Suffice to say, the numbers for a local, fairly rural area [with several towns dotted around], a notable but probably insignificant compared with down south.

Both cars are new[ish] One a Corsa, the other a Fiat. Neither interest me .

Both seem to be  case of the driver losing control during the night.

I would drive out and take photos, but I simply cannot be bothered...

 

Young drivers in these parts tend to opt for newish small cars, probably for insurance purposes.

I suppose I might take a peep at the local trafpol twitter feed, if it really matters? Providing those that post on it are on duty, there might be something mentioned? Usually they only mention the uninsured drivers and the seizures of their cars....

 

So no evidence that it's any different to what it was in earlier times when kids lost control of car and ended up in fields from time to time.

 

Let's move on, eh, and just leave it there, agreeing to differ in our opinions?!

 

I've already said that, why on earth can't you?!

Edited May 22, 2022 by Hobby

[peanuts]

1 hour ago, Dunsignalling said:

 

And, in my youth, I remember many older drivers (most of whom had learned to drive during WW2) being rather disdainful of "modern innovations" like the synchromesh gearbox. 

 

"Proper" (implication, older male) drivers simply didn't need it.....

 

John

yup just go on any old truck drivers forum and mention "eaton splitter " and out they all come with the you youngster dont know you were born 

 

[SamThomas]

Many operators are probably unable to perform even simple checks such as checking fluid levels simply because many current vehicles will do that as soon as you turn the key.

 

They don't check tyre presuures because the TPMS does that. many don't even give the treads a cursory look - currently, I'm looking for another car & when a see a "possible" check the MOT history & the amount of failures due to tyre tread delth is amazing.

Another common one is "position light(s) not working &/or headlamp aim.

 

Another marked difference between a driver & an operator,

 

 

[jcredfer]

3 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

 

And, in my youth, I remember many older drivers (most of whom had learned to drive during WW2) being rather disdainful of "modern innovations" like the synchromesh gearbox. 

 

"Proper" (implication, older male) drivers simply didn't need it.....

 

John

 

Well after the WWII too, if you hadn't got much cash.  My first was an MG J2, from 1932 and MGs didn't start putting Synchro on any gears until around 1939.  It still makes rev matching so much easier and smoother, over half a century later.

 

[alastairq]

4 hours ago, Hobby said:

So no evidence that it's any different to what it was in earlier times when kids lost control of car and ended up in fields from time to time.

I never suggested there was.

However, some seem convinced that modern cars are 'safer' , when in reality they still manage to get crashed.

The real problem to me, lies in the performances of modern, small-engined cars.

Whereas 40 years ago, a young driver who got over enthusiastic, in their 'small car,' would  be doing so at relatively lower speeds , compared to the same scenario in  on of today's small cars.

Injuries & death will still occur, but mainly because the likes of the small engined Corsa [purely as an example, the list is bigger]...of the past few years has a performance capability that likely exceeds that which , when we were young, we could only dream about in far more expensive, bigger engined cars.

In other words, the drivers are still crashing...but they're tending to do it at higher speeds these days.

[Hobby]

Mmm, thanks for clarifying that, it wasn't how I read your posts! Moderns are most certainly "safer" than they were, even at the higher speeds they may crash at. Speed wise they are certainly faster but that's compensated by better dynamics so doesn't make them more dangerous or more liable to crash, that's always been down to the driver. However I'd still rather be in a modern Corsa than my old Mini whatever speed I crashed at! 

[Dunsignalling]

2 hours ago, alastairq said:

I never suggested there was.

However, some seem convinced that modern cars are 'safer' , when in reality they still manage to get crashed.

The real problem to me, lies in the performances of modern, small-engined cars.

Whereas 40 years ago, a young driver who got over enthusiastic, in their 'small car,' would  be doing so at relatively lower speeds , compared to the same scenario in  on of today's small cars.

Injuries & death will still occur, but mainly because the likes of the small engined Corsa [purely as an example, the list is bigger]...of the past few years has a performance capability that likely exceeds that which , when we were young, we could only dream about in far more expensive, bigger engined cars.

In other words, the drivers are still crashing...but they're tending to do it at higher speeds these days.

Cars don't crash, their drivers do that! However, it's more likely they walk away from them if the car is newer.

 

From observation, I tend to agree with the suggestion that there seem to be a lot more "single vehicle incidents" these days.

 

Living in a rural area, barely a week goes by without seeing something stuffed in a hedge somewhere with a bunch of skidmarks leading to it.

 

John

Edited May 22, 2022 by Dunsignalling

[PhilJ W]

I wonder if all of those cars 'stuffed in hedges' are recorded, especially the older cars whose scrap value is not much less than the vehicles worth? A young driver with an old Clio worth only a few hundred pounds might find it easier to have it picked up by the scrap man without informing the insurance company and getting a replacement and just telling the insurance company that the car was scrapped and transferring the insurance (assuming its insured in the first place). 

[rocor]

6 hours ago, SamThomas said:

Many operators are probably unable to perform even simple checks such as checking fluid levels simply because many current vehicles will do that as soon as you turn the key.

 

They don't check tyre presuures because the TPMS does that. many don't even give the treads a cursory look - currently, I'm looking for another car & when a see a "possible" check the MOT history & the amount of failures due to tyre tread delth is amazing.

Another common one is "position light(s) not working &/or headlamp aim.

 

Another marked difference between a driver & an operator,

 

 

 

I feel that a large proportion of the population would like neither to be, driver nor operator. They would rather be a passenger, where personal transportation is concerned. The arrival of fully autonomous cars  will be seen by them as a major advantage to their lives. 

[doilum]

A few years ago I was happily stretching the national speed limit on the top road from Pateley Bridge to Ripon when I had a sacrilegious thought: this old diesel Astra estate was probably quicker from A to B cross country than my much loved RS 2000. Back in the early 80s most cars could only test the national limit on motorways or good A roads. The RS was in another league. Today it is difficult to think of a car that isn't capable of 100mph+. Add in front wheel drive, power steering ,passive understeer and tyres wide enough to make Carlos Fandango weep, and you have a vehicle designed to feel safe right up to the limit of its road holding. Suddenly it all goes Pete Tong with inevitable consequences. Take away all the driver aids and you had a car that demanded respect and gave plenty of earning before the limit was reached. Of course young lads would ignore the warning often fueled by almost acceptable drink driving and then get caught out by a touch of frost or a bend that suddenly tightened as the brakes locked and the ditch beckoned. I lost count of how many boy racer chariots which ended up on Pontefract's 13th green. Today there is a 40mph speed limit so it is difficult to compare. One other difference: back then most of my friends had started out on two wheels. Just surviving two years on a bike gave us a sense of road craft that few current learners get. We understood that accidents hurt. I'm not sure that the current young drivers do.

[Rugd1022]

My neighbour's new toy turned up last week - a very original '61 Ford Consul, and LHD to boot...

 

 

[alastairq]

3 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

I wonder if all of those cars 'stuffed in hedges' are recorded, especially the older cars whose scrap value is not much less than the vehicles worth? A young driver with an old Clio worth only a few hundred pounds might find it easier to have it picked up by the scrap man without informing the

 Around here they're nearly always recent models.

Having seen working youngsters [military] keen to 'buy' their first car, a new one, once their tests are passed....they opt for whichever decent maker has a good deal going for a young driver.

Hence the likes of Corsa's I mentioned [there will be others], who offered a good deal on finance, with insurance thrown in fort good measure.

I'm willing to bet that insurance for a youngster is more for an older small car than it is for a brand new model ?

I think they look more for how much it will cost  as a package each month?

[Rugd1022]

A splash of colour from the Monaco GP in '67 with Lorenzo Bandini in his Ferrari 312, sadly he had a fatal crash that day....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Erichill16]

Rather nice sight at the local garden centre earlier this week. Very tidy and the only thing to make the trip there worthwhile!

[Erichill16]

1 hour ago, Rugd1022 said:

A splash of colour from the Monaco GP in '67 with Lorenzo Bandini in his Ferrari 312, sadly he had a fatal crash that day....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The ‘villain’ driving the Ferrari in the ‘Le Mans 66’ film.’ 

[MJI]

3 hours ago, doilum said:

A few years ago I was happily stretching the national speed limit on the top road from Pateley Bridge to Ripon when I had a sacrilegious thought: this old diesel Astra estate was probably quicker from A to B cross country than my much loved RS 2000. Back in the early 80s most cars could only test the national limit on motorways or good A roads. The RS was in another league. Today it is difficult to think of a car that isn't capable of 100mph+. Add in front wheel drive, power steering ,passive understeer and tyres wide enough to make Carlos Fandango weep, and you have a vehicle designed to feel safe right up to the limit of its road holding. Suddenly it all goes Pete Tong with inevitable consequences. Take away all the driver aids and you had a car that demanded respect and gave plenty of earning before the limit was reached. Of course young lads would ignore the warning often fueled by almost acceptable drink driving and then get caught out by a touch of frost or a bend that suddenly tightened as the brakes locked and the ditch beckoned. I lost count of how many boy racer chariots which ended up on Pontefract's 13th green. Today there is a 40mph speed limit so it is difficult to compare. One other difference: back then most of my friends had started out on two wheels. Just surviving two years on a bike gave us a sense of road craft that few current learners get. We understood that accidents hurt. I'm not sure that the current young drivers do.

 

I have not driven anything faster fown a tight twisty a road than my old sunbeam. It was so light that it could turn fast and on loose chippings side windows were used

[MJI]

I have not yet gound a phone keyboard with auto spelk check which does not change correct words.

[MJI]

1 hour ago, MJI said:

I have not yet gound a phone keyboard with auto spelk check which does not change correct words.

 

 

Phew PC Qwerty now!!!

 

I hate phones yet they are good for web browsing

[SamThomas]

18 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

I wonder if all of those cars 'stuffed in hedges' are recorded, especially the older cars whose scrap value is not much less than the vehicles worth? A young driver with an old Clio worth only a few hundred pounds might find it easier to have it picked up by the scrap man without informing the insurance company and getting a replacement and just telling the insurance company that the car was scrapped and transferring the insurance (assuming its insured in the first place). 

Many are not recorded & often for the reasons you stated.

 

A road junction near my house has a very high rate of "single vehicle accidents" in icy weather - these range from simple "no-damage ending up on the pavement/damaged wheels/relatively minor bodywork".

The County Council (responsible for gritting the roads) will not add the road to the gritting routes because "records show there are very few accidents cause by ungritted roads".

[SamThomas]

17 hours ago, rocor said:

 

I feel that a large proportion of the population would like neither to be, driver nor operator. They would rather be a passenger, where personal transportation is concerned. The arrival of fully autonomous cars  will be seen by them as a major advantage to their lives. 

I can see that & I would admit that there are times when faced with a long journey would still like to use my car but relax for the bulk of the journey - if only that could be achieved......

oh wait, just had an idea, you could drive to a railway terminus, put your car on a train, relay in a seat with a table & legroom, get something to eat, sleep, stretch your legs, de-stress & then, after a few hundred or more miles retrieve your car & finish your journey. Now that's sorted just need a name for it - how about "Autorail" ?

 

Much as many people look forward to fully autonomours vehicles I will never ever trust it 100% - & what happens when (not if) the tecnology that controls it all goes down ?

[SamThomas]

16 hours ago, doilum said:

A few years ago I was happily stretching the national speed limit on the top road from Pateley Bridge to Ripon when I had a sacrilegious thought: this old diesel Astra estate was probably quicker from A to B cross country than my much loved RS 2000. Back in the early 80s most cars could only test the national limit on motorways or good A roads. The RS was in another league. Today it is difficult to think of a car that isn't capable of 100mph+. Add in front wheel drive, power steering ,passive understeer and tyres wide enough to make Carlos Fandango weep, and you have a vehicle designed to feel safe right up to the limit of its road holding. Suddenly it all goes Pete Tong with inevitable consequences. Take away all the driver aids and you had a car that demanded respect and gave plenty of earning before the limit was reached. Of course young lads would ignore the warning often fueled by almost acceptable drink driving and then get caught out by a touch of frost or a bend that suddenly tightened as the brakes locked and the ditch beckoned. I lost count of how many boy racer chariots which ended up on Pontefract's 13th green. Today there is a 40mph speed limit so it is difficult to compare. One other difference: back then most of my friends had started out on two wheels. Just surviving two years on a bike gave us a sense of road craft that few current learners get. We understood that accidents hurt. I'm not sure that the current young drivers do.

Absolutly spot on.

 

My last van was a VW T5 Transporter - hybrid turbo, straight through stainless steel exhaust (pretend cat of course) & a pretty agressive re-map. It would have blwon the doors of quite a few of my early "fast" cars such a a MkI Mexico, MkII RS2000 & probably the XR3i & Astra GTE as well.

 

I too started on two wheels, gained a sense of roadcraft & a sense of self preservation.

 

The aforesaid "fast" cars were almost like a second skin & they would roadfeel back to you if you were starting to push it.

 

I lost the Transporter on the A57*** - no warning, it just went, scraping a wall on it's way into the scenary to come to a stop amongst the sheep by the verge - good job it was not the other side......

The A57 Snake Pass was a road I always enjoyed until they put a blanket 50mph speed limit on it.

 

*** Probably the last "modern" I drove with any form of charector & roadfeel. Even then there was lack of radfeel compared to the T4.