For those interested in old cars.

[Hobby]

But conversely on a road that's wide enough and with good visibility such as yhe A5 north of the Shrewsbury bypass they kept people to the left. That section is now two lane and people sit in the middle of their lane and it prevents overtaking. I'm with Alastair on this.

[Reorte]

12 minutes ago, Hobby said:

But conversely on a road that's wide enough and with good visibility such as yhe A5 north of the Shrewsbury bypass they kept people to the left. That section is now two lane and people sit in the middle of their lane and it prevents overtaking. I'm with Alastair on this.

He's completely right about the "if it's safe to do so" of course, but marking a lane out that'll never be safe to use in many locations (i.e. anywhere near a bend or brow of a hill) is just asking for trouble.

[Oldddudders]

The only nasty moment I recall on a three-lane road had nothing to do with opposing traffic. Michael was driving his dad's Zephyr 6 on our way back from Pascall's model shop in Guildford one Saturday afternoon, and in a pre-70 limit era, was giving it beans downhill on an empty Shere Bypass. That had/has a gentle curve and as we rounded it we became aware of a column of ramblers crossing! Nobody died. A three-lane road also needs more thinking about than a two-lane one if you are a pedestrian.......

[Hobby]

45 minutes ago, Reorte said:

He's completely right about the "if it's safe to do so" of course, but marking a lane out that'll never be safe to use in many locations (i.e. anywhere near a bend or brow of a hill) is just asking for trouble.

 

Granted, but I don't think he was suggesting that, if you took that to it's conclusion you'd have to ban overtaking completely as it's inherently dangerous. On the section of road I mentioned there's plenty of places a three lane could be used. I do wonder sometimes if we are pandering to the lowest possible denominator in these sorts of cases.

 

Bewdley Bypass, three lane section (on the hill), no accidents on there as long as I've lived down here:

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.366496,-2.3131047,3a,75y,289h,72.56t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sUmQ4HvviQN6W2L4xbqFrxA!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DUmQ4HvviQN6W2L4xbqFrxA%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D176.31186%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

[PhilJ W]

4 hours ago, Reorte said:

One of life's great mysteries, why anyone ever thought that was a good idea.

 

Until just a few years ago there were some short stretches left on the A6 (at the top of Shap, and a bit more between Penrith and Carlisle), but they've recently been repainted away in to a less bonkers 2+1 arrangement.

 

I know of one or two bits of road that can still technically be used like that. There's the A66 approaching downhill to Keswick, towards the roundabout. It's two lanes uphill, but the markings separating the downhill lane is a broken / solid line combination, so technically you can use it to pass. Looking at Streetview it was painted in to a double white line a few years back, then more recently back in to the solid / broken combination. No idea why.

Its the same here in Basildon. The A176 (Nethermayne) has three lanes on a fairly steep slope with one marked lane down and two up separated by a double white line broken on the single carriageway side. It connects the A13 to the local hospital so if there's an accident not too far to go.

[alastairq]

2 hours ago, Hobby said:

I'm with Alastair on this.

 Be aware, it'll be a tight squeeze.................

[alastairq]

Market Weighton hill, A1079, for those who live further out towards the stix?  {Styx, AKA 'umber?]?

 

In my last known job, I was frequently disappointed when sat near to existing licence holders [who should know better....Yet, have to be educated]...couldn't identify when they were on a dual carriageway, or not?

 

The above hill [East Yarkshire, for those who rarely venture into the fog o the north] has a 3 lane carriageway    2 up, one down, spearted for the most part by a double continuous white line road marking..but not near the top.....[single solid white line on the uphill side]...being a case in point.

When I ask why we are travelling at 70 mph, the response usually was, 'this is a dual carriageway'...[This might be in a Land Rover]...

I then would ask, ''why they thought it was a dual carriageway?''

The response was often something to do with the 3 lanes!

 

The follow-up depended on whether I was in coaching mood...or assessing for suitability for an upcoming course...

Either way they could be nobbled for exceeding the military speed limit for a Land Rover  [JSPs]...Not that I ever did that, of course....

More likely, a short stop in a layby whilst I explained the niceties of how to identify what sort of road they were on, etc......and their speed limits, both civilian & military...

All basic pre-driving test skills expected of a learner or novice...Never mind someone who has held a licence for a few years!

Nowadays, as a retired [retarded?] person, I don't get angry....or even, annoyed [often] by what I observe from other drivers..especially those who give the impression they actually know what they are about with driving......[More often, much older drivers, too]...

I simply endure the disappointment of it all.

 

 

[johnlambert]

The A46 as it bypasses Alcester is a wide, single carriageway road, with two marked lanes but easily enough space for three lanes of traffic. It works quite well when used sensibly but is trouble when you either get people who both think they're entitled to use the "middle lane"  or people who miss overtaking cars when pulling out of side roads. 

[Hobby]

That's a bad section of road, one day they'll sort it, it seems to change every time I use it!

[Reorte]

3 hours ago, johnlambert said:

The A46 as it bypasses Alcester is a wide, single carriageway road, with two marked lanes but easily enough space for three lanes of traffic. It works quite well when used sensibly but is trouble when you either get people who both think they're entitled to use the "middle lane"  or people who miss overtaking cars when pulling out of side roads. 

Is it an older road that might've been built as three lanes and later repainted in to two?

[Hobby]

Quite probably, it's always been two lane as long as I've known it, since the late 80s, though it looks like a three lane road. There is an alternative which may suit that bit of road and access/egress from the side roads, the one where you have three lanes and an alternating two lane "overtaking" section with double white lines to keep the other traffic in it's lane. That seem to becoming quite common these days, I also saw quite a bit over in Germany earlier in the year.

Edited November 23, 2023 by Hobby

[Dunsignalling]

32 minutes ago, Hobby said:

Quite probably, it's always been two lane as long as I've known it, since the late 80s, though it looks like a three lane road. There is an alternative which may suit that bit of road and access/egress from the side roads, the one where you have three lanes and an alternating two lane "overtaking" section with double white lines to keep the other traffic in it's lane. That seem to becoming quite common these days, I also saw quite a bit over in Germany earlier in the year.

Alternating 2+1 lanes are much safer than a 3-lane free-for-all. With optimum planning, the overtaking sections can be arranged to minimise any  visibility issues for those entering from side-roads.

 

The once-notorious A303 Ilminster bypass is nowadays much less bothersome, but it should still have been built as a dual carriageway! 

 

John

[alastairq]

A166 Garrowby Hill....[B steep for waggins..complete with gravel trap escape road for those who have gone beyond the OH Shhh moment.]

Around the middle part [the steepest, also bending]....the uphill side has the single lane [single carriageway road all the way]...which actually becomes quite wide at one point.

Wide enough for higgerant drivers to consider the single lane to be two lanes.....so that they can overtake slower vehicles in their overly high horsepower new fat-RS wagens...without having to cross the centre line dividing the opposing lanes...[Or, so they think?}

But it is not two lanes, it is but one lane.

Imaging if one is driving down a single carriageway main road, and some clown decides to insert their vehicle alongside, between you and the oncoming traffic? 

What would you think????

On Garrowby Hill, the main issue is, if one keeps hard over to the left edge of the road, when going uphill...where the road narrows down again, one can find oneself being almost pushed off the edge of the carriageway by higgerant drives intent on not allowing you to get in their way!

If one s brought to a stand because of vehicles trying to get past on one's right, but in your own lane.....will one be able to get started again, given the gradient????

''Getouttamyway'' syndrome at its very worst.

I stay wide, closer to the centre line..which doubtless annoys other drivers when my 50 mph up the 1 in 4 bit is still too slow for them.

 

I use the description ''drivers'' very loosely.

Other drivers obviously don't see my road position as being 'reasonable?'

When ' not being reasonable' means preventing them from doing whatever they fancy doing,regardless!

 

Do I care?? Do I eckerslike!

 

Of course, those are the road users who complain when the Police go out in numbers, to enforce the Laws on them...when they should be out catching burglars...

 

Sorry folks,  it's all about despair.

 

 

[MJI]

2 hours ago, Hobby said:

Quite probably, it's always been two lane as long as I've known it, since the late 80s, though it looks like a three lane road. There is an alternative which may suit that bit of road and access/egress from the side roads, the one where you have three lanes and an alternating two lane "overtaking" section with double white lines to keep the other traffic in it's lane. That seem to becoming quite common these days, I also saw quite a bit over in Germany earlier in the year.

 

I have overtaken along there quite a few times, as long as people keep left, no problem.

[Hobby]

Therein lies the issue, one person who doesnt want to be overtaken and doesn't understand the "keep to the left" bit... the A5 north of Shrewsbury is the same.

[alastairq]

1 hour ago, Hobby said:

Therein lies the issue, one person who doesn't want to be overtaken and doesn't understand the "keep to the left" bit... the A5 north of Shrewsbury is the same.

The problem with that''keep to the left'' idea, on a single carriageway road like the A166 Garrowby Hill is that folk using the same lane, overtaking without wanting to be across the centre line, seem to think they have a priority when it comes to pushing in front of those they overtake.

 

When in reality [IE if it went to a Court of LAw].....the overtaker in such a position has contravened either the Careless driving, or dangerous driving  regulations.

IN other words, they should not have started overtaking if they cannot keep clear of the vehicle they ar overtaking...in all respects..IE, before, during, and after the overtaking maneuver.

Try telling that to an Audi driver, however?

As far as I'm concerned these days, if the overtaker cannot or will not use the other side of the carriageway to overtake, then they are asking for trouble.

As far as the A166 mentioned is concerned, years ago I investigated, communicating with the relevant Highways Authority.

Where the carriageway happened to 'bulge outwards' for the short distance, they had no intention of creating a second lane on the uphill side of things, on account of what was suspected might occur where the carriageway returned to a single lane. {IE, potentially , stalled HGVs on the steepest part, due to cars & vans pushing in front where the second lane might end...Instead of using the other side of the centre line  road marking. Which might be inconvenient for traffic coming in the other direction...as has often been the case even recently......

 

Why is it that folk seem to think that, because they are overtaking, everybody else has to 'keep out of their way?'

[Hobby]

We were talking about specific roads, Alastair, not your 166,  on the two I mentioned there is plenty of room to stay to the left and leave room to overtake and yes they would cross the lines to do so. As I said there are those who deliberately try to block overtakers by hugging the middle of the lane and even the white lines. I'm not bothered about the legalities of it all, though you seem obsessed by it. I've no doubt you'll come back with loads more telling us all how to behave, have fun!

[alastairq]

7 minutes ago, Hobby said:

I'm not bothered about the legalities of it all, though you seem obsessed by it.

 You should be......After all, the legalities of it all are what back up the Highway Code.

 

Or do you prefer Yourway Code?

[Hobby]

I'll try to keep within the HC, Alastair,  like most other people!

Edited November 23, 2023 by Hobby

[Kickstart]

Some wider wides have a cross hatched section with a broken outline in the middle. These you can enter if necessary. Keeps people left while making overtaking still possible - down side if the centre section of the road has more chance of debris

 

All the best

 

Katy

[PhilJ W]

12 minutes ago, Kickstart said:

Some wider wides have a cross hatched section with a broken outline in the middle. These you can enter if necessary. Keeps people left while making overtaking still possible - down side if the centre section of the road has more chance of debris

 

All the best

 

Katy

You treat them as a double white line, if the outline is broken you may cross but if it is a solid white line you must not cross.

[Kickstart]

Yep, and these have broken outlines, but they keep people generally to the left

 

All the best

 

Katy

[Erichill16]

gSeen today but I think it’s pretty obvious it’s not in the UK!

 

[monkeysarefun]

13 hours ago, Erichill16 said:

gSeen today but I think it’s pretty obvious it’s not in the UK!

 

 

Its somewhere where they drive on the left, the flowering trees implies Spring so therefore Southern Hemisphere, that water has a  Southern Pacific  vibe to it, which narrows it down to two  possibilities for me -  but from the lack of Rainbow Lorikeets etc tearing those flowering trees up its not here so I'm  guessing  its New Zealand.

Edited November 26, 2023 by monkeysarefun

[monkeysarefun]

This was outside the local pub today. Obviously a kit car, is it a Caverham? A company called Birkin here distribute several UK kit producers products, I guess its something from up there.