2 BIL to Blue BIL

[Godfrey Glyn]

Colin very kindly mentioned that I had taken some photos of the preserved 2BIL whilst I was on a flying visit to Shildon. I have - first attempt so I hope it has worked - uploaded a set of photos into the Gallery in three albums. You can only get at one side of the 2BIL which was rather frustrating but I hope they may be of use to others even if they are too late to help Colin with his masterpiece. I managed to get some high shots using my Canon G1X on the end of a monopod and the 10 sec delay. Unfortunately the monopod wasn't quite long enough to get above the roof but it did produce some decent shots. I think it is fairly easy to identify where the preserved version differs from the Hornby model. I took about 110 photos so if anyone wants one of some other part of the set please do contact me.

best wishes

Godfrey

[HAB]

Many thanks for these Godfrey.  

 

Maybe the origin of Hornby's rivets is revealed - when the NRM painted this thing they could not find any filler!  I think the Southern Region's paint shops would be ashamed of the job - it should all have been filled then stopped, after which it would all have been flush.  Just shows you should never copy a preserved example!

 

I wonder if it might not be a good idea to post at least a few more pics here Godfrey?  Perhaps showing bogie and underframe detail plus body construction?  Those might be the most widely useful? - otherwise you might be emailing at lot of pics to a fair few people!

 

Many thanks,

 

Best wishes,

[Godfrey Glyn]

Thank you Howard, I will take your advice and put a few more up. These first three are of the bogie under the driving end of the DTC - lots more underframe detail shots in the Gallery section. Whilst the next three are from the DMBS as modelled by Hornby.

I have to say the differences so eloquently described and corrected by Colin have not stopped me buying all three versions but I do aim to try and improve the roof detail by following Colin's 'Book'!

best wishes

Godfrey

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Godfrey and All

 

Here are the links to Godfrey wonderful photos.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/gallery/album/2892-preserved-2bil-dmbs-at-nrm-shildon-august-2013-2/

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/gallery/album/2891-preserved-2bil-dmbs-at-nrm-shildon-august-2013-1/

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/gallery/album/2889-preserved-2bil-dtc-at-the-nrm-shildon-august-2013/

 

Funny type of rivet they seem to have used, got a grove in the top and seems to be in a recess, can't be right should look like a row of teenager's spots.

[Colin parks]

Many Thanks for posting an absolute deluge of quality shots Godfrey!

 

The definition is so good it will assist anyone who wants to model  a 2 BIL - plus the photos of the underframe equipment - so clearly seen in the gallery shots, will assist me with the 4 SUB too.

 

(I Think the reviewer of the Hornby 2 BIL who said a trailing pick-up bogie looked much like a motor bogie should take a good look at your shots!)

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[Miss Prism]

Maybe the origin of Hornby's rivets is revealed - when the NRM painted this thing they could not find any filler!  I think the Southern Region's paint shops would be ashamed of the job - it should all have been filled then stopped, after which it would all have been flush.  Just shows you should never copy a preserved example!

 

The real thing had these rivets, at least on the body panelling. They do stand proud a little bit, and would not disappear under filler, even if the Southern had the time to apply filler, which I doubt. The rivetting style is similar to contemporary aircraft construction. Hornby's mistake was to interpret them as conventional steam-engine snaphead style, which resulted in the Battleship Potemkin look. Hornby also put in rivets around the perimeter of all the bolections, which is fiction, the prototype bolections being held with countersunk flush-fitting screws (which did tend to appear under a couple of coats of paint).

[Colin parks]

The real thing had these rivets, at least on the body panelling. They do stand proud a little bit, and would not disappear under filler, even if the Southern had the time to apply filler, which I doubt. The rivetting style is similar to contemporary aircraft construction. Hornby's mistake was to interpret them as conventional steam-engine snaphead style, which resulted in the Battleship Potemkin look. Hornby also put in rivets around the perimeter of all the bolections, which is fiction, the prototype bolections being held with countersunk flush-fitting screws (which did tend to appear under a couple of coats of paint).

I beg to differ Missprism,

 

But on Godfrey's original hi-res. images (which he kindly emailed to me a few days ago), it can clearly be seen that there are absolutely no rivets on the 2 BIL bodywork at all. Each and every bump you see is a screw with a slotted head. How on earth could you rivet into teak anyway?  The 4 COR motor coach which I saw definitely had some kind of old white stopping still evident in the slots of some the screw heads on its side panelling.  So HAB is not wrong in suggesting filler could have been used. 

 

You are right about the window frames though, but they are not 'bolections'!

 

Colin

Edited September 2, 2013 by Colin parks

[HAB]

The real thing had these rivets, at least on the body panelling. They do stand proud a little bit, and would not disappear under filler, even if the Southern had the time to apply filler, which I doubt. The rivetting style is similar to contemporary aircraft construction. Hornby's mistake was to interpret them as conventional steam-engine snaphead style, which resulted in the Battleship Potemkin look. Hornby also put in rivets around the perimeter of all the bolections, which is fiction, the prototype bolections being held with countersunk flush-fitting screws (which did tend to appear under a couple of coats of paint).

 

Fraid I come done on Colin's side on this!

 

Not sure how well you personally remember the Bils Miss Prism - it was a few years ago for me, but they were a significant part of travel for me over 4 or 5 years of my formative years and, for sure, I remember them looking like this:-

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/4880443466/in/set-72157603648747922/lightbox/

 

I see no "rivets"

 

Not sure how long you worked in BR carriage repair shops / main works either, (I only spent 20 years there) but perhaps you know more than me what can be done with a bit of polyester filler! (or even more evil concoctions prior to that!)

 

Can you post an example of a teak framed, galvanised-steel panelled aircraft please?  

 

But there is a bottom line for Hornby, if the Bil has to have "rivets", why not the Maunsell loco hauled coaches?  They were both built in the same works at the same time to the same design and construction principles.

 

Best wishes,

Edited September 2, 2013 by HAB

[Enterprisingwestern]

Many thanks for the pics Godfrey, clears up a few of my questions on the brakes and pull rods or lack thereof.

 

Mike.

[Godfrey Glyn]

I have gone back through my collection of photos of the preserved 2BIL at Shildon and put together some of the bodywork. I certainly couldn't see any rivets on the bodywork. I agree with Colin that the screws used have domed heads. It would appear that sometimes an enthusiastic worker has forced the screw head into the steel sheeting and at other times s/he has not. The screws used on the bolections? certainly appear to be flat headed. Colin I do have some more photos that I took under the unit. I will set about editing and uploading them in the hope that they may be of some use in your next project.

best wishes

Godfrey

[Miss Prism]

Chaps - you're right, they're screws and not rivets. The distinction I was trying to get at is the shape of the head of the screws used on the bodywork is different to the shape of the head of the screws used on the bolections.

[Godfrey Glyn]

OK here are the photos I took under the sole bars of the two carriages. Again I used the monopod to get some shots along the centre line. I probably should have taken more....! I certainly caused a degree of bemusement amongst the other visitors. The staff were uniformly wonderful and helpful and even offered to arrange for a set of steps; alas I did not have the time. Hope these are of some use.

best wishes

Godfrey

[Judge Dread]

Wonderful photos of the 2-BIL people. I was musing at this one

and thinking, "I see the budget doesn't run to Tywraps anymore."

[5Bel]

Hi Godfrey, 

 

Great photos, just what I need for my Kirk 2Bil resurrection! The underframe pictures are particularly useful.

 

Cheers for now, Ian.

[Colin parks]

I agree with Ian.

 

Those underframe photos are fantastic Godfrey!

 

I am amazed they let you crawl underneath the unit.

 

Colin

[Enterprisingwestern]

Just goes to show what Colin bottled out of and didn't do, time for a re-visit methinks

 

Mike. (Already in flak jacket and tin hat)

[Godfrey Glyn]

Colin,

Thank you, but I didn't! I just held the monopod underneath and using the ten second delay to set the camera off arranged it using the adjustable viewer until it took the photo, sort of 'up periscope' then quickly down again. I got the idea from a commercial photographer who came to college and took some photos of our new building. He had a setup with a SLR camera on a long extendable pole mounted on his van, linked to a laptop in the van. He was starting a business to offer the opportunity to take semi-overhead photos of expensive houses that were going on the market. I think he must be doing quite well as there are plenty of such shots in our local county paper these days. So my technique is a sort of poor man's version! It would be easy, using this technique, to get good photos of any loco or coach roof as long as you are on a platform. I had to be naughty and stand on a chair to get some of the roof shots. As I said the staff were wonderful though they told me not to use a chair.

best wishes

Godfrey

[Colin parks]

Well, we all have to thank you Godfrey for resourcefulness and your unauthorised use of a chair for such a noble cause!

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[MJI]

Looks much better in blue I think

[Adam]

Looks much better in blue I think

 

Than the rather strange shade of green (lighting permitting of course) the NRM one currently wears? Possibly. Looks a bit like the weird shade Bachmann used to do the Bulleids in. 

 

Adam

[Ceptic]

Than the rather strange shade of green (lighting permitting of course) the NRM one currently wears? Possibly. Looks a bit like the weird shade Bachmann used to do the Bulleids in. 

 

Adam

 That is NRM's version of 'Electric Green', based on post-war 'Malachite'. IMO, It needs to be a tone or two darker and richer. BR(S) Emus carried this colour, or 'Malachite', until BR introduced their darker version in 1956/7/8.

Being painted in this early BR Green, this unit would/should have had the early crest applied (the uni-cycling lion) to the DMBT, not the later roundel. Also, the 'S' prefix and suffix should be one space apart from the vehicle's number.

 

Regards,

 

Nit-Pickers Ltd.  PLC.

[MJI]

Than the rather strange shade of green (lighting permitting of course) the NRM one currently wears? Possibly. Looks a bit like the weird shade Bachmann used to do the Bulleids in. 

 

Adam

 

 

I was thinking of his model.

[Colin parks]

I thought the 2 BIL was finished until it was pointed out by HAB (Howard) that the compressor was missing from the motor coach!

 

Here is the resultant scratch-built part painted and ready to fit:

 

 

The space where it should go:

 

 

It just fits. Luckily the trusses are flexible enough to squeeze the thing in, other wise the brake rigging would have had to be temporarily removed (the resistance bank has tilted due to lack of glue on its joints to the floor):

 

 

There it is, sitting next to its contactor box (to the left) the cradle is situated by lining up to the pairs of rivets which are above on the solebar:

 

 

If I was being picky, it could be said that this is not quite the same compressor as fitted to the preserved unit. This is a Westinghouse DH25 type with the circular part cast into the front of the casing which the one on 2090 does not have.

 

 

Colin

[cjlangdon]

Any tips on removing th ebody from the chassis/ I had a frustrating time at Missenden last weekend, when I had a bit a spare time and wanted to put a DCC chip. I could not get the body off, and did not want the break the lus. No one else there had chipped up a 2BIL, so any suggestions would be welcome.

[Colin parks]

Any tips on removing th ebody from the chassis/ I had a frustrating time at Missenden last weekend, when I had a bit a spare time and wanted to put a DCC chip. I could not get the body off, and did not want the break the lus. No one else there had chipped up a 2BIL, so any suggestions would be welcome.

Hi CJ,

 

I recall that the bodies were not that hard to remove. There are three lugs on each side from what I remember. These lugs are formed on the lower part of the glazing mouldings and locate into sockets near the ends and centre of the chassis. Here is a photo which shows where they are, if you look at the chassis/interior in the background.

 

 

Although this is a picture of the trailer coach, the motor coach is similar. I would start by gently levering the side a way in the middle and slip a piece of thin card between lug and socket. Do the same for the ones near each end and the body should lift on that side enough for the opposite side to release too. The DCC socket is at the back of the motor coach and provision is made on the interior moulding to hold the decoder above window level.

 

All the best,

Colin