Alastair-I Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 sorry to bust your bubble but I took business studies at btec IWMH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 While there is nothing wrong with duplicating an existing model as a test of your and 3D printing's abilities, as a commercial venture it's not viable. Why would someone buy a 3D printed model that's going to be lower quality (due to the current technology of printing available) and more expensive than a finished and painted injection moulded model? You need to look at something that definately hasn't been produced RTR and probably not as a kit either, but at the same time people will want, that way you you have most chance of making a return on your R&D time. BTW, you do know that covered coil wagon is a European prototype? Not nessarily a problem In itself, the market might be bigger than for British prototypes (ignoring the fact that Piko make it RTR) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 IWMHIts that a commonly recognised acronym? Google didn't help, but then it suddenly came to me! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamphillip Posted July 30, 2013 Author Share Posted July 30, 2013 I know its just that european and some british models are expensive even in kit form so why not offer a cheaper alternative? aside from that i have asked what people want to see/be made so I can research it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I understand that if you get your own printer your models are going to be cheaper than the likes of Shapeways, but have you actually priced printing compared to the same model RTR? (and that's not including R&D time) There's a reason most 3D model railway stuff people have made so far is in N or small H0/00 items. Put it this way, you are not going to compete on price with anything produced RTR in China, you need something no one else makes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devil Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I know its just that european and some british models are expensive even in kit form so why not offer a cheaper alternative? aside from that i have asked what people want to see/be made so I can research it. In all honesty I can't see you producing it cheaper, at some point you're going to have to factor the price of the machine in......amongst other things. If you're serious about this you're going to have to identify what will actually sell, as I stated before, produce something you want for yourself first, then take it from there. Asking on a forum for prototypes is definitely not the way forward, you're going to have to create your own niche in a market. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devil Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Its that a commonly recognised acronym? Google didn't help, but then it suddenly came to me! nope over my head.......then again it's been a long day Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamphillip Posted July 30, 2013 Author Share Posted July 30, 2013 each coach weighs 50-75g the plastic comes in 1kg spools at £30 per spool Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 If you fancy something like that Shimmns, I think there is or was something similar in the UK that has only been produced by Lima as a repainted H0 model, and thus not correct. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 on a side note i have ADHD and can be quite impulsive. I think we had probably guessed that, it can't be easy, but research for the sort of activity you propose tends to be a long dragged out detailed affair. Its that a commonly recognised acronym? Google didn't help, but then it suddenly came to me! I tried googleing it to no avail I know its just that european and some british models are expensive even in kit form so why not offer a cheaper alternative? aside from that i have asked what people want to see/be made so I can research it. How about this as an idea - you are obviously interested in the Hornby mk4 - one of the known shortfalls is the simplification of the underframe 'pods' under the doors - on the Hornby model they are too small and attached to the bogie, do the research to design a correction part in CAD and then before you buy the printer, find someone that already has one (maybe the printer supplier will print an example to help sell it to you) and then get feedback on the item you have produced. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devil Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 each coach weighs 50-75g the plastic comes in 1kg spools at £30 per spool Yep, but the machine is free? What's the quality going to be like, you need to research this before anything else..... I've had stuff printed all over the world at various prices and quality, no one comes anywhere near rtr quality at the same or cheaper price, ho are you going to manage this? I regularly do 7mm models these are in the region of £150-£200, they sell occasionally because someone deems it worth it, 3d printing is not yet an alternative to mass produced models. If you seriously think as a new entrant to the market that you can do a better job, fine please show us all, but in all honesty a reality check is needed here. No one is trying to put you off or slag you off but, you need to do some serious research and weighing up before you do anything. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Have you had a look at the results of the RM survey for ideas? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamphillip Posted July 30, 2013 Author Share Posted July 30, 2013 Yep, but the machine is free? What's the quality going to be like, you need to research this before anything else..... I've had stuff printed all over the world at various prices and quality, no one comes anywhere near rtr quality at the same or cheaper price, ho are you going to manage this? I regularly do 7mm models these are in the region of £150-£200, they sell occasionally because someone deems it worth it, 3d printing is not yet an alternative to mass produced models. trams 074.jpg If you seriously think as a new entrant to the market that you can do a better job, fine please show us all, but in all honesty a reality check is needed here. No one is trying to put you off or slag you off but, you need to do some serious research and weighing up before you do anything. we are not only going to be making model railway models but architectural models for the going rate Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamphillip Posted July 30, 2013 Author Share Posted July 30, 2013 Have you had a look at the results of the RM survey for ideas? where can i find that? thanks in advance Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Mike Posted July 30, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 30, 2013 each coach weighs 50-75g the plastic comes in 1kg spools at £30 per spool What about the cost of the printer? Or the cost of your design time? Materials are a fraction of the total cost. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamphillip Posted July 30, 2013 Author Share Posted July 30, 2013 What about the cost of the printer? Or the cost of your design time? Materials are a fraction of the total cost. as i have said in other posts we will be making architectural models as well and these fetch a good price especially because the sub company will be attached to a well know land survey company in the area Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Boar Fell Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 Hello Adam, Good to see another person interested in 3D printing, I wish you all the best with your business. I think you will learn a lot of useful information and business knowledge through the project, I certainly have and I rely on the 3 different external printing companies rather than doing it in house. As others have said though you may find it difficult to make it commercially viable, I have certainly found that with Wild Boar Models which is only now a year and a half on getting close to turning a profit (not that I could ever live of the income as it is purely a hobby). I think it may be wise to take heed of some of the feedback given here, but I wouldn't give up on the idea as after all its your hobby. Best of luck, Regards, Wild Boar Fell (I just guessing, but I have probably printed more stuff in 3D in the last year than I have printed stuff on the home printer) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 where can i find that? thanks in advance http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/71316-results-wishlist-poll-2013/?fromsearch=1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzler Fan Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Adam, I would echo Wild Boar Fell above, and several others who have contributed to this thread and with the knowledge and experience of the pitfalls you have yet to negotiate. Noel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Having had a read through Wild Boar Fell's thread on designing wagons for 3D printing I would recommend you do. You can see his transition from someone who is just starting to someone who has a good idea of the design ideas that work and which don't, the constraints of the process and materials. His Parrot wagon is a good example of something that works well in 3D printing and makes an attractive and desirable model (always a plus if you want to sell them) but would be hard to scratchbuild and is unlikely to be produced RTR http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/50852-printed-warwell-wagons/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gt.Shefford Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Just bodged this together in my lunch hour. I would say doing the curtain sides on the steel carrier wagon is the easier part, its the bogies which I think woul take more time to do especially if they have compression springs on show. Drawing was done in Rhino3, its not anything like the one shown in the thread - put this together from memory and added way to many gathers in the curtain, but you get the idea. If I was goint to tackle the wagon you showed earlier in the thread i would resin cast the body from a 3d printed or SLA master. The raw materials (casting resin v. print filament) seem to be similar in cost, it is the process time is where you would make the saving i,e in the time it takes to 'print one wagon body you could cast 4 or more. Jonathan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon_1066 Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 I would suggest you start with something slightly less ambitious such as detailing parts for coaches or what about covered loads for a standard wagon size? Has anyone tried making scale people using 3D printers? If you look at the dearth of decent available figures for model railways that is an area you could offer something fresh in. Other bits that could be good include line side "furniture" like point rodding and electrical panels, goods ready to be loaded, signals, lattice parts for gantries, etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adamphillip Posted July 31, 2013 Author Share Posted July 31, 2013 I would suggest you start with something slightly less ambitious such as detailing parts for coaches or what about covered loads for a standard wagon size? Has anyone tried making scale people using 3D printers? If you look at the dearth of decent available figures for model railways that is an area you could offer something fresh in. Other bits that could be good include line side "furniture" like point rodding and electrical panels, goods ready to be loaded, signals, lattice parts for gantries, etc. good idea that may be better that experimenting using coaching stock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Just bodged this together in my lunch hour. I would say doing the curtain sides on the steel carrier wagon is the easier part, its the bogies which I think woul take more time to do especially if they have compression springs on show. body stl test.jpg Drawing was done in Rhino3, its not anything like the one shown in the thread - put this together from memory and added way to many gathers in the curtain, but you get the idea. The issue with what you have drawn is the lac of 'sag' between the hoops - it doesn't look like a material hung over a frame - that's the difficult bit. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 If I was goint to tackle the wagon you showed earlier in the thread i would resin cast the body from a 3d printed or SLA master. Yes, I think you are right - I went the Lima hack route (described in DEMU's Update by Brian W) for a single Tiphook hood, but then copied it in resin to produce more, initially as a stop gap until I work out how to do the Powel Duffrin hoods for Hamworthy. I must have the left over bits of the second hood somewhere, but I can't quite think where??? Jon Edit to add photo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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