3D printed kits

[Adamphillip]

In the near future I am going to be producing kits of rare rolling stock would there be a market and what would people be willing to pay for kits for example; full rake of mk4s inc DVT, kits of coaching stock in all gauges. 

 

also where would i be able to get accurate 3d models of the stock and locos from?

[jon_1066]

You would have to make the 3D model, that's the point of producing a 3D printed item - the design of the print.  So you would have to go and find the drawings of the real things then produce 3D Cad drawings from them to make your 3D print.

[Adamphillip]

ok thanks, I through as much, but once I have a 3d model of the parts I can then rescale them for any of the smaller gauges (anything under 16 inches long and 8 inches high and wide)

[37114]

In the near future I am going to be producing kits of rare rolling stock would there be a market and what would people be willing to pay for kits for example; full rake of mk4s inc DVT, kits of coaching stock in all gauges. 

 

also where would i be able to get accurate 3d models of the stock and locos from?

 

I admire your determination but here are a few considerations to thing about:

 

- Pricing. While you will get a range of prices suggested back, it is important to establish your cost base, from my understanding decent quality 3D prints are not cheap and still require fettling.

 

- choice of prototype - You mention you intend to produce in all gauges but a number of the examples you quote have already been produced rtr in certain gauges. In the case of the mk4 Hornby decorated coaches can be had for £15 - £25, so any 3D print will have to be cheaper to ofset the cost of paint and transfers, I just don't think that is feasible. So I would consider either a specialist scale or rare prototype if you want to have significant demand to ofset the cost of your time doing the necessary development work.

 

- Gauge - At Lark Rail Finney and Smith were selling 3d print of cars, tractors etc in 3mm scale. There is a pretty good chance that no RTR manufacturer is going to duplicate their efforts as 3mm is a specialist scale, in 2mm or 4mm this i s less likely, so would choose your choice of gauge carefully, even though it is easy to scale the CAD's accordingly.

 

Hope that helps

[Adamphillip]

Hornby have stopped producing mk4's and with a blank model you could put whatever livery you want on it, be it intercity or GNER amongst others, thats why I mentioned the mk4's.

[Bluebell Model Railway]

Ive been looking in to coaches and various parts printed in 3D... like for example 3D Chesham Metropolitan Coaches, as seen on the Bluebell Railway, as well as other things too... it takes much research and knowledge to get the thing right to be able to get a correct print, this was a big part of my problems, luckily solved now, Ive been using Google Sketchup, although limited it is capable of modelling coaches in a much bigger scale, it is possible to export them as a different file and use another program to re-size or re-scale, which knowing the size you want and the measurements is quite useful.
Its taken me 7 months with a lot of help to be at a stage to actually print something.
 

[Adamphillip]

anyone know of a 3d printer that would be large enough to make full length MK4 coaches for 00?

[Cyberspice]

Hornby have stopped producing mk4's and with a blank model you could put whatever livery you want on it, be it intercity or GNER amongst others, thats why I mentioned the mk4's.

 

Er, no they haven't.

 

http://www.ehattons.com/51161/Hornby_R4540_Mk4_1st_Class_East_Coast__/StockDetail.aspx

[Adamphillip]

ok they only make basic mk4s not nd car or dvt

and why are they so expensive. 

[37114]

ok they only make basic mk4s not nd car or dvt

and why are they so ###### expensive. 

 

£22 for a fully decorated coach is market rate, whether they are to modern spec or not. To paint and transfer an undecorated one will be the thick end of £12 to do it properly, you will need wheelsets another £4 so you are having to get your 3D print for £6 to break even or fantastically more detailled to justify a premium price. As a comparison Finney and Smith were charging around £6 for a tractor that was circa a 10th the size.

 

If you want to produce the coaches for your own satisfaction of saying, "I designed that,I had that 3D printed" I applaud you and suggest you speak with the likes of shapeways etc to see the costs and get things moving. If you want to make it a commercially viable venture then you need to change tack because you may lose your shirt if you duplicate a mass produced item, apologies if this comes across negative just trying to save you a lot of money and heartache

[Red Devil]

Be prepared for a lot a hard work, a very steep learning curve and a whole load of hassles and knockbacks, and that's just the good bits.

 

I'd say the only way to produce stuff via 3d printing commercially is as a by product of the 'I wannt one of the those for myself'

 

And yeah I have a fair bit of experience in this field.

[Adamphillip]

looks like I am going to have to build my own printer

[jonhall]

or get a better grasp of reality. Forget home grown printers, or even buying one, send your files out to be printed by someone who has sufficient economy of scale to spread the cost of a really expensive printer over thousands of prints. The difficult bit is knowing what to draw, and then the next bit, actually learning how to draw it will also take time. Whilst I'm at it, detail and wall thicknesses often don't scale - its not a case of setting the photocopier to x% to get a smaller one.

 

Jon

[Adamphillip]

I know how it works I am trained in using CAD and CNC machines and we (me and my dad) are not only going to be making what I have said above but 3D architectural models.

[Alastair-I]

anyone know of a 3d printer that would be large enough to make full length MK4 coaches for 00?

 

I know how it works I am trained in using CAD and CNC machines and we (me and my dad) are not only going to be making what I have said above but 3D architectural models.

 

Your earlier post indicates that CAD/CNC experience doesn't directly translate into knowledge of 3d printing.  You indicated an example product you intended to manufacture, and then asked how you could do it.  That's 7 steps backwards in terms of target market confidence in your ability to deliver.

 

1. Assess the available technology.

2. Identify a series of simple to complex prototypes to hone your skills with.

3. Then identify market segments within the capability of the technology.

4. Develop business/marketing plan with detailed costings.

 

Your still working towards step 1, a long way from declaring a product range.

[Bernard Lamb]

Oh dear.

Take a look at the thread on GWR Pollens to get an idea of the problems.

Ten times the size of a tractor and ten times the price is probably realistic.

Let us say around £60 to £80 for a basic undecorated coach in 00.

Hardly a viable commercial proposition with the current state of things.

Can you get the side thickness thin enough?

Can you get the surface smooth enough to avoid a lot of finishing? Slab sided modern coaches will show up any irregularity.

As jonhall pointed out certain dimensions do not scale.

He did not mention it but neither do tolerances.

Etched brass seems to me to be a far better option for coach sides.

Bernard

[Adamphillip]

Your earlier post indicates that CAD/CNC experience doesn't directly translate into knowledge of 3d printing.  You indicated an example product you intended to manufacture, and then asked how you could do it.  That's 7 steps backwards in terms of target market confidence in your ability to deliver.

 

1. Assess the available technology.

2. Identify a series of simple to complex prototypes to hone your skills with.

3. Then identify market segments within the capability of the technology.

4. Develop business/marketing plan with detailed costings.

 

Your still working towards step 1, a long way from declaring a product range.

 

i never ask how to make them i only asked if there was resources that i could use to make production quicker, I will use a modified printrbot V2 to make the models. the materials come in 400m rolls.

[Cyberspice]

ok they only make basic mk4s not nd car or dvt

and why are they so ###### expensive.

The DVT comes via the Flying Scotsman train pack.

 

http://www.ehattons.com/51290/Hornby_R3133_East_Coast_Flying_Scotsman_Train_Pack_with_Class_91_electric_locomotive_DVT_and_/StockDetail.aspx

[Pugsley]

In the near future I am going to be producing kits of rare rolling stock would there be a market and what would people be willing to pay for kits for example; full rake of mk4s inc DVT, kits of coaching stock in all gauges. 

 

also where would i be able to get accurate 3d models of the stock and locos from?

Start with something simpler, and rarer than Mk4's and DVT's, and smaller than a coach.  Some kind of wagon, perhaps - they don't have much in the way of compound curves, usually.

 

ok thanks, I through as much, but once I have a 3d model of the parts I can then rescale them for any of the smaller gauges (anything under 16 inches long and 8 inches high and wide)

 

Probably not, all of the materials available have different properties and minimum feature sizes.  If anything, you're probably better off designing for the smallest and then scaling up.  There will come a point where things start looking very chunky if you go down that route though.

ok they only make basic mk4s not nd car or dvt

and why are they so ###### expensive. 

 

Once you really start looking into your idea, you'll discover that they're actually quite cheap by comparison.

i never ask how to make them i only asked if there was resources that i could use to make production quicker, I will use a modified printrbot V2 to make the models. the materials come in 400m rolls.

You'll never get the resolution you need for the smaller scales, probably including 7mm scale, with that kind of device.

 

Whilst I don't like to pour cold water on a young person's dream, what you're currently suggesting isn't practical.  The best use of 3D printers at the moment are for creating masters for kits, that can then be cast in a cheaper material, such as polyurethane resin.  Also, as suggested above, etched brass is better for coaches, coupled with moulded resin ends, perhaps.

[Cyberspice]

looks like I am going to have to build my own printer

We've got a printer that we built. Its not up to 00 gauge resolution really. It would probably be okay for say SM32 scale except that many of the plastics degrade in sunlight.

[Alastair-I]

Why not play to your strengths?

 

There's a lot you could make with CAD/CNC machining techniques that the market might like at a cost it might afford.  The definition you could achieve going that route would far exceed what you could achieve with 3d printing for a reasonable expenditure.  3d printing is a young technology, it's for enthusiasts with cash to burn or high tech companies with limitless R&D budgets.   It's not a serious market proposition for models, because the cost to achieve the quality exceeds the cost of achieving the same result using traditional technologies by a considerable margin.

[Adamphillip]

I like to experiment so for that I'll do it even if its not profitable.

[Alastair-I]

I like to experiment so for that I'll do it even if its not profitable.

 

Then do it for yourself and not for kits to sell.  Success will be the end of you if your business takes off selling kits at a loss..

[Adamphillip]

when we get the printer we will make a test run of a full 225 set to see,1kg spool costs £20-£30 so if each coach weighs 25g we'll make 50 coaches per spool. even if they weigh 50g thats 25 coaches, if i sell at £10 per coach thats £250 with max £30 cost to me

[cctransuk]

...thats £250 with max £30 cost to me

 

.... if, and it's a BIG if, you can achieve a degree of finish that is acceptable to a sufficient number of purchasers.

 

Have you looked at the various threads here on rapid prototyping / 3D printing?

 

I have, and the 'pimply' results that I've seen, requiring much final finishing to produce even 'adequate' results, lead me to agree with others here who have stated that this technology is not yet sufficiently developed to produce models with anything other than a minimal market potential.

 

Sorry,

John Isherwood.