RMweb Premium Claude_Dreyfus Posted August 28, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 28, 2013 30(!) years after the last installment, a new version of the London to Brighton in 3 minutes film has been produced... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23853863 There are a number of interesting observations in the accompanying article, not least that the special had to be run on a Sunday morning as there are no longer any non-stop services to Brighton from Victoria. Viewing certainly makes interesting comparisons, especially in terms of the number of locomotives and frieght/parcels traffic seen in the 1983 film. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
10800 Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Used to be 4 minutes - I suppose that's some kind of progress. What do these people do with that extra minute in Brighton that's what I want to know! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsforever Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Get an ice cream and visit the Lanes and get ripped off buying antiques ,interesting comparisons its on South today this evening. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 To me just on a casual look the lineside vegetation was better maintained in 1953 followed by 2013 and then 1983. Which kind of reinforces my opinion/prejudice that Blue era BR was badly in need of TLC... Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 What an absolutely brilliant idea: I used to work for BBC South and I wish I'd thought of it. Well done them and it would have taken a lot of work in the cutting room to line the three recordings up like that. Looking at the original L-B in 4 mins it did strike me, not for the first time, that when it was filmed in 1953 it was travelling at a seemingly absurd average speed of about 750MPH. That was ten to fifteen times faster than even the expresses of its day and six times faster than even Mallard's record. Today it's only about twice as fast as the current record and less than four times the service speed of the latest TGVs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Claude_Dreyfus Posted August 28, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 28, 2013 Frightening thought! The ride the 377s give you over points at anything in excess of about 60mph - check out the down fast over Stoats Nest Junction! - would probably send you into orbit at that speed... Given there has been a 30 year gap between these three films, I wonder how things will look when (if!) they do it again in 2043? Will we still have the Electrostars? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted August 28, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 28, 2013 Frightening thought! The ride the 377s give you over points at anything in excess of about 60mph - check out the down fast over Stoats Nest Junction! - would probably send you into orbit at that speed... Given there has been a 30 year gap between these three films, I wonder how things will look when (if!) they do it again in 2043? Will we still have the Electrostars? Stoats nest junction is scheduled for complete renewal (Ballast, timbers, rails - the lot) this Christmas. (Hint - don't plan to travel between London and the coast via Gatwick this Christmas because if you do lots of buses will be involved) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Claude_Dreyfus Posted August 28, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted August 28, 2013 Thanks! I heard rumours of that...I may have to break a habit of a lifetime and take holiday over Christmas. My train can be re-routed via the Dorking line from Selhurst, but if memory serves the London Bridge direct does not run over Christmas, so probably a moot point! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted August 28, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 28, 2013 Yet another Xmas closure that will affect us.. oh well, looks like another trip abroad then. No chance of a three minute journey this evening due to a fatality at South Croydon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted August 28, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 28, 2013 Thanks! I heard rumours of that...I may have to break a habit of a lifetime and take holiday over Christmas. My train can be re-routed via the Dorking line from Selhurst, but if memory serves the London Bridge direct does not run over Christmas, so probably a moot point! Given Victoria will be also shut so the interlockings can be renewed, London Bridge or Charing Cross will end up as the London terminus for any services that do run ....and don't forget that Gatwick interlocking is been replaced too and the new track layout comissioned so no trains from Three Bridges northwards either. ....and the Arun valley resignalling is going live too ....and there are bridge works supposed to happen at Norwwod Junction So to get from London to Brighton you could be looking at Charing Cross - Tulse Hill - Streatham Common - West Croydon - Dorking - Horsham (Reverse) - Three Bridges (Reverse) - Brighton Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 I think it's interesting how much it *hasn't* changed - I went through doing odd pauses, and there are lots of places that are fundamentally not a lot different! The biggest difference in the 3 images is the better resolution on the modern one shows more detail, the older ones dissapear into a blur... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
talisman56 Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 From the shots from the barrier at Brighton showing the passengers alighting from the trains, the 1983 version was done in a 4VEP!! That'd be a lively and not very comfortable trip... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan452 Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 No chance of a three minute journey this evening due to a fatality at South Croydon. Dreadful journey back from the Beach last night. At least I travelled First Capital Connect 'First Class' for some of the way although with the amount of people cramed on-to the train it made little difference. Death confirmed for person hit by train at South Croydon station - http://www.croydonguardian.co.uk/news/10641107.Death_confirmed_for_person_hit_by_train_at_South_Croydon_station/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted August 29, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 29, 2013 Gatwick Expresses being diverted via Dorking and Horsham I have heard with 377's being put on in place of 442's. General opinion being formed is if you want to travel between London and Gatwick/Sussex between Christmas and New Year, forget it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete 75C Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 An absolutely fascinating comparison and I agree that not a huge amount has really changed. My favourite will always be the 1983 one as this was my local line and also a time I remember fondly from my "yoof" -the year I left school and joined the railway! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 The one thing that has changed is that they no longer run trains that mysteriously transform themselves from the Brighton Belle into an ordinary service train somewhere in the South Downs. That was a little worrying in the 1953 version as you wondered what changes the passengers underwent. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon020 Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 ... zipped through our stn at 3m:04s... nice! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted August 31, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 31, 2013 Given Victoria will be also shut so the interlockings can be renewed, London Bridge or Charing Cross will end up as the London terminus for any services that do run ....and don't forget that Gatwick interlocking is been replaced too and the new track layout comissioned so no trains from Three Bridges northwards either. ....and the Arun valley resignalling is going live too ....and there are bridge works supposed to happen at Norwwod Junction So to get from London to Brighton you could be looking at Charing Cross - Tulse Hill - Streatham Common - West Croydon - Dorking - Horsham (Reverse) - Three Bridges (Reverse) - Brighton I am not aware of any means of getting from Charing Cross to Tulse Hill? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted August 31, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 31, 2013 I am not aware of any means of getting from Charing Cross to Tulse Hill? Charing Cross - London Bridge -Peckham Rye - Tulse Hill Or are the crossovers lacking for such a move on the London Bridge approaches, in which case they will have to terminate at London Bridge (I also believe that you will get a Charing Cross - East Grinstead service running for airport connections) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southernman46 Posted August 31, 2013 Share Posted August 31, 2013 Stoats nest junction is scheduled for complete renewal (Ballast, timbers, rails - the lot) this Christmas. (Hint - don't plan to travel between London and the coast via Gatwick this Christmas because if you do lots of buses will be involved) Hmmm - what they need is a nice convenient diversionary route via Oxted, East Grinstead to Haywards Heath & Lewes !!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan452 Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 I don't belive anybody has mentioned the closure and removal of Coulsdon North Station. EDIT http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Coulsdon_North_station_geograph-3115595-by-Ben-Brooksbank.jpg Coulsdon North: Down the lines towards Redhill and Brighton, 1983,View southwards from the footbridge at Coulsdon North station just before its final closure on 4/9/83: ex-LB&SC and SE&C lines from London (Victoria, London Bridge, Charing Cross) via East Croydon and Purley to Redhill and Brighton, etc. This station was originally 'Stoats Nest & Cane Hill', then 1911-1923 'Coulsdon & Smitham Downs'. Latterly, it was only the terminus of local trains from London and even these were run down in favour of through trains. These used the through platforms, but these tended to conflict after the quadrupling of the main line and the opening of the 'Quarry Line' (by-passing Redhill) in 1899, so most called instead at the ex-SE&CR station Coulsdon South. The two lines at far left are the original SER pair to Redhill passing through Coulsdon South - just visible. Directly on the right below are the ex-LB&SC fast lines, which join up in the distance with the middle pair of fast lines and then go straight ahead, under the Redhill lines in the Cane Hill covered way (former tunnel), to form the 'Quarry Line' by-pass. Over in the right distance are the sidings for the trains terminating at Coulsdon North. The ex-SE&C line through Smitham to Tattenham Corner is out of sight to the right. This whole area is now (2012) obscured by the A23 Coulsdon Relief roads. As this was all before my time can someone confirm that there was a 55mph restriction there before the early eighties re-alignment? Also in the 1953 film did I notice a far sharper curve through the platforms at Purley? Looks as if some of the platform has been rebuilt since. Removal of another speed restriction? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontyPython Posted January 26, 2014 Share Posted January 26, 2014 From the shots from the barrier at Brighton showing the passengers alighting from the trains, the 1983 version was done in a 4VEP!! That'd be a lively and not very comfortable trip... The 1983 one was actually filmed in a Class 73! They just filmed people getting of a normal service at Brighton, something they probably did on the other versions too! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmsforever Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 In the late fifties my family had a holiday in Brighton and as a special treat we came back to Victoria on a lunchtime Brighton Belle the food was good but the ride was not.Every time we came upon pointwork the unit crashed and seemed to jump in the air causing a waiter to drop a tray of salmon on the floor! Another waiter commented that the driver was a bit heavy on the speed! Glad I had a chance to ride on the Belle as it certainly was an enjoyable experience and one I would like to reprise when the restored one takes the rails. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted January 27, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 27, 2014 I did a run on the Belle on the last day of operation (1972?). Ride was certainly awful by then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
talisman56 Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 I did several runs on the 'Belle' in it's last months of service - there was several bursts of work on the Quarry line, causing diversion through Redhill. After the slow for the move to the Redhill lines at Earlswood came the cry 'grab hold of your cups, she's going through Redhill!' - such was the ride (or lack of it) over the pointwork at the Brighton end of said station. Joseph, remembered well. Last day of the 'Belle' was 30/04/1972... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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