Model Railway Partwork - Coaches under ?5,

[The Stationmaster]

So what? Hornby started out making toys, and indeed still do.

 

It's just that many of the "toys" they make for us demanding modellers are far too expensive and delicate to get children into train sets. Even the Thomas range is expensive, they are supposed to be toys yet coaches are £18! Who pays £125 for James? I think a range of properly affordable trains to get kids to move on from Brio would only do the hobby good in the long run. Wagons <£5 and coaches <£10, basic locos for £30-£60. It can be done, which manufacturer will be brave enough to give it a go?

Perhaps a better question would be 'which manufacturer can afford to do it at those prices?  Coaches at a tenner doesn't sound too bad but wagons for a fiver - teetering on the brink of profitability unless they are very basic indeed and locos for the sort of figure you mention might not be too good a bargain.

 

But I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiment about lower price entry level stuff for youngsters.

[C&WR]

Depends on the child, I suppose.  Most of my stock is ancient Hornby, Lima & Triang, but I have some new pieces like Bachmann Classes 220 & 166 and plenty of Dapol & Bachmann wagons.  The only thing I don't let my seven-year-old touch is my Dapol spine wagons, and frankly I'm a bit frightened of handling them myself!

['CHARD]

Perhaps a better question would be 'which manufacturer can afford to do it at those prices?  Coaches at a tenner doesn't sound too bad but wagons for a fiver - teetering on the brink of profitability unless they are very basic indeed and locos for the sort of figure you mention might not be too good a bargain.

 

But I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiment about lower price entry level stuff for youngsters.

 

Responding mainly to the earlier post by mjcampbell I guess, my take is similar to Mike's but I would add this.

 

If one of the barriers to entry to taking up this hobby is cost, and let's assume 00 is the standard starting point, before people move on to harder stuff, then part of the problem is education and knowledge where to access products cost-effectively.  Which means the volume sellers.  I have hoovered up many a sub-£50 Bo-Bo from Hattons, and there are sub £75 steam locos to be had too.  The multi-pack buys of Bachmann wagons bring those items into the £5-6 bracket as well. http://www.ehattons.com/51093/Hornby_R6606_3_x_HAA_MGR_wagons_Railroad_range_/StockDetail.aspx    But as a parent with little or no interest in specialist retailers, these avenues remain undiscovered.

 

However, the price point for many of us is perhaps less acute with wagons - as an adult, 'the price of a couple of pints' sounds like decent value.  And as we're now used to separate brake gear and wire fittings on wagons as standard, would we be reluctant to regress?  I think we probably would.  Part of the problem with attracting younger entrants -vs- price, appears to me to be embedded in Hornby's approach to its very basic Railroad products.  What surely could be put on the shelves for a fiver from fully depreciated tooling is instead sat there attracting a £10 tag.  Or this, despite £2 off:

 

http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/1081183.htm?CMPID=GS001&_$ja=cgid:10990579590|tsid:41361|cid:119355510|lid:54996204390|nw:g|crid:29753924430|rnd:230628829461019315|dvc:c|adp:1o5

[edward66]

Could somebody post a picture of one of these coaches or have I missed one?

 

Edward

[mjcampbell]

I should emphasise that I'm not suggesting all models should be cheap and basic, and I really don't think such a range would have any effect on the sales of decent scale models at the current prices, though e-bay prices for second-hand stuff might be dented.

 

With two small kids I'm as expert as anyone on toys and their price! Making trains for those prices will mean cost-cutting in detail, manufacture, finish, and packaging, just as these part-work coaches. But it can be done. Along with that a sales distribution strategy is needed, they need to be in toy-shops and supermarkets. These days you're not just pitching toys to the kids, and the parents, but the grandparents too!

 

So yes it would be a bold move for the manufacturer, but I reckon it would pay off with volumes in the long-run. The steam-age nostalgia market won't keep going forever. While the Railroad range is a good start I don't think it is radical (cheap), or well marketed, enough to really make a difference. 

[C&WR]

Having finally found mine they do feel a bit plastic in hand.  However at typical layout viewing distance, especially with a little work, they look fine to these untutored eyes.  I may stick some loading gauge markers on the ends, just slightly annoyed my Railtech transfer pack doesn't include the SK markings...

[TheSignalEngineer]

................................

The steam-age nostalgia market won't keep going forever. ........................

My grandson is 3 1/2. He is into blue diesels and sector liveries, and points out detail differences between apparently identical locos such as different horn positions. He knows his Pendos from Voyagers and HSTs and can identify Virgin, Cross Country, Northern Trains, East Midlands, Trans Pennine and ATW liveries. Although he likes my steam models I think he will go straight from Thomas to modern image as he already wants me to build him a branch line so he can blag my Northern Pacer to run on it.

[Jongudmund]

I doubt it. In the early 1980s, Smith's did have a go at selling the Airfix railway kits and a fair number of the Airfix / GMR range, but I remember they took ages to sell. The Brent Cross branch in particular had GMR boxes on the shelves by the stairs for a very long time indeed.

 

Cardiff's big branch of Smiths (on Queen Street) has had a Hornby Railways / Scalextrc / Arifix concession in their shop since Christmas at least. Mainly the Railroad and trainsets / trackpacks.

 

So you might find it in a larger branch near you.

[Baby Deltic]

Could somebody post a picture of one of these coaches or have I missed one?

 

Edward

Look back through the thread.

[Baby Deltic]

Responding mainly to the earlier post by mjcampbell I guess, my take is similar to Mike's but I would add this.

 

If one of the barriers to entry to taking up this hobby is cost, and let's assume 00 is the standard starting point, before people move on to harder stuff, then part of the problem is education and knowledge where to access products cost-effectively.  Which means the volume sellers.  I have hoovered up many a sub-£50 Bo-Bo from Hattons, and there are sub £75 steam locos to be had too.  The multi-pack buys of Bachmann wagons bring those items into the £5-6 bracket as well. http://www.ehattons.com/51093/Hornby_R6606_3_x_HAA_MGR_wagons_Railroad_range_/StockDetail.aspx    But as a parent with little or no interest in specialist retailers, these avenues remain undiscovered.

 

However, the price point for many of us is perhaps less acute with wagons - as an adult, 'the price of a couple of pints' sounds like decent value.  And as we're now used to separate brake gear and wire fittings on wagons as standard, would we be reluctant to regress?  I think we probably would.  Part of the problem with attracting younger entrants -vs- price, appears to me to be embedded in Hornby's approach to its very basic Railroad products.  What surely could be put on the shelves for a fiver from fully depreciated tooling is instead sat there attracting a £10 tag.  Or this, despite £2 off:

 

http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/1081183.htm?CMPID=GS001&_$ja=cgid:10990579590|tsid:41361|cid:119355510|lid:54996204390|nw:g|crid:29753924430|rnd:230628829461019315|dvc:c|adp:1o5

That petrol tanker has got to be an error, surely.There's a set of three for £14.49 including that one.

[TheSignalEngineer]

That petrol tanker has got to be an error, surely.There's a set of three for £14.49 including that one.

Even though it has been pointed out to them they refuse to believe that they are wrong.

[Baby Deltic]

Even though it has been pointed out to them they refuse to believe that they are wrong.

 

Maybe, just maybe, they're hoping that someone will allow themselves to get well and truly fleeced.

[andyman7]

I doubt it. In the early 1980s, Smith's did have a go at selling the Airfix railway kits and a fair number of the Airfix / GMR range, but I remember they took ages to sell. The Brent Cross branch in particular had GMR boxes on the shelves by the stairs for a very long time indeed.

I've got old Hornby items with WHS price labels - I remember smiths in Watford stocked Hornby in 1981. It was the disounters that killed that (Railmail was just down the road!). However, nowadays I'm pretty sure it would be done on a concession basis so you never know.....

[Talltim]

That petrol tanker has got to be an error, surely.There's a set of three for £14.49 including that one.

* Please note item 1081183 has previously been on sale at 7.99.

Prices correct as displayed but are subject to change

[Ramblin Rich]

 

That petrol tanker has got to be an error, surely.There's a set of three for £14.49 including that one.

* Please note item 1081183 has previously been on sale at 7.99.

Prices correct as displayed but are subject to change

 

I wonder if there's a x10 multiplication here?

Also note in the description (my bold!)

 

• Affordable addition to your train track layout.
• Incredible detailing.

[C&WR]

Two coaches - £7.98.

 

Mk1 Brakes to go with them - from £18. 

 

My face when looking at these - priceless!

 

Back to eBay, although I suspect prices there will be on the up...

[Jenny Emily]

The owner of Bolton Model Mart told me today that he's had a few parents through buying Hornby sets from him off the back of this partwork. It seems that whilst not many people are interested in part two onwards of the partwork, there is some good news coming out of these cheap coaches for bringing new people into the hobby.

[C&WR]

Eek.  Had decided to look at getting some crests, no smoking signs and the sausage-in-a-bun first class and door numbers.  Bearing in mind I only want to do a couple of coaches I rather baulk at spending that sum which would let me do a whole railway's worth, even allowing for my sausage fingers meaning I have to throw away a few which go wrong.

 

Anyway, I am still keen on getting a B?K of some sort and some kind of first class coach.  Would a Bachmann  Collett or Thompon job be vaguely appropriate with these coaches?  The Mk1s in maroon are marginally more expensive.  I'd go for the 'Bay, but unsurprisingly used Mk1 maroon stock seems to be getting close to new prices when postage is taken into account, and the couplings would sit more happily with a more modern design.

[davidw]

Eek.  Had decided to look at getting some crests, no smoking signs and the sausage-in-a-bun first class and door numbers.  Bearing in mind I only want to do a couple of coaches I rather baulk at spending that sum which would let me do a whole railway's worth, even allowing for my sausage fingers meaning I have to throw away a few which go wrong.

 

Anyway, I am still keen on getting a B?K of some sort and some kind of first class coach.  Would a Bachmann  Collett or Thompon job be vaguely appropriate with these coaches?  The Mk1s in maroon are marginally more expensive.  I'd go for the 'Bay, but unsurprisingly used Mk1 maroon stock seems to be getting close to new prices when postage is taken into account, and the couplings would sit more happily with a more modern design.

 A BG , BSK or BCK would  be suitable. The coach is in 1956 - 64ish maroon MK1, Thompson Gresley or Collett coaches could be seen with them Mk1 FK ( first corridor) in maroon would be suitable

[C&WR]

 A BG , BSK or BCK would  be suitable. The coach is in 1956 - 64ish maroon MK1, Thompson Gresley or Collett coaches could be seen with them Mk1 FK ( first corridor) in maroon would be suitable

 

Thanks for a kind response to a relative novice, David.  Looks like I may be telephoning certain suppliers, although I will arrange delivery at work so The Long Haired Controller doesn't realise I've been spending cash  in case The Long Haired Controller is out when the postman tries to deliver.

[raymw]

Fwiw, prompted by this thread, I raised a question on 13th Sept about that argos tanker on their web page -

 

[Question ID: 1038796]

Question Summary: price

Additional Details: why is this price about ten times the price of the identical item from elsewhere?

Asked on
http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/1081183.htm
Hornby Railroad Shell Petrol Tanker.

 

 

They posted my question on the page for a while, and they have now reduced the price (but removed my question). I've had a couple of non-descript standard response emails from them concerning value for money, etc., not answering my query, but at least they've reduced the price.

 

If you buy something from Argos, and within 7 days they reduce the price, they will not refund the difference. However, they will tell you that you can return the original and they will refund you the original price, and you can then buy a new one at the new price. They do seem to have an odd way of doing things, they will unnecessarily end up with second-hand stock.

 

Best wishes,

 

Ray

[C&WR]

As I have five of these coaches I'm seriously considering mocking one or two up into FKs or CKs by the simple expedient of drawing a "1" on the doors. I may even splash out on the window sausages too.

 

They may have the wrong number of windows & so on, but I don't think anyone I know would spot this & then I just need a brake of some configuration. My main layout can only fit 5-6 coaches + motive power without looking silly anyway...

[C&WR]

Gah!  Have just received my pack of Precision Decals window adornments.  I suppose I am unsure of what I had expected, but it was not that I would only get 10 blue First Class Window sausages.  They are absolutely lovely, for certain, but that's not enough to do one coach & I'll be left with a whole load of others I can't use at all.

 

To add insult to injury by doing a different Google search I have just found the Replica Railways variant.  This comes with plenty of the things.

 

Caveat emptor & all that...

[TheSignalEngineer]

Eek.  Had decided to look at getting some crests, no smoking signs and the sausage-in-a-bun first class and door numbers.  Bearing in mind I only want to do a couple of coaches I rather baulk at spending that sum which would let me do a whole railway's worth, even allowing for my sausage fingers meaning I have to throw away a few which go wrong.

 

Anyway, I am still keen on getting a B?K of some sort and some kind of first class coach.  Would a Bachmann  Collett or Thompon job be vaguely appropriate with these coaches?  The Mk1s in maroon are marginally more expensive.  I'd go for the 'Bay, but unsurprisingly used Mk1 maroon stock seems to be getting close to new prices when postage is taken into account, and the couplings would sit more happily with a more modern design.

In the early 1960s there was a rake on the Paddington - Birkenhead service which had a Hawksworth FK in a rake of Mk1s. Thompsons were quite often used as strengtheners, I have seen a picture of one at the front of a choc/cream rake on the Cornishman leaving Newton Abbot. Although neither of these were Brakes it shows that mixing did happen. Just pick up a magazine or book from around 1960 and you will find some fantastic combinations that would be decried if put on an exhibition layout.

[cctransuk]

Gah!  Have just received my pack of Precision Decals window adornments.  I suppose I am unsure of what I had expected, but it was not that I would only get 10 blue First Class Window sausages.  They are absolutely lovely, for certain, but that's not enough to do one coach & I'll be left with a whole load of others I can't use at all.

 

To add insult to injury by doing a different Google search I have just found the Replica Railways variant.  This comes with plenty of the things.

 

Caveat emptor & all that...

 

Might I suggest :-

 

Sheet BL34 - BR Coach window labels; ('FIRST', 'NO SMOKING', 'SECOND' & 'LADIES  ONLY').

'SECOND'  was used on Southern Region boat trains, and 'LADIES ONLY' on non-corridor stock.

4mm. scale price is £6.50

 

See http://www.cctrans.freeserve.co.uk/products.htm

 

Regards,

John Isherwood,

Cambridge Custom Transfers.