Bringing 'stuffed' locomotives back to steam?

[OnTheBranchline]

I was just curious on what the decision process/assessment of bringing a stuffed locomotive back into steam? Obviously, it would have to be big enough to pull the various rail tours.

 

For example, would it ever be possible to see Lode Star back in steam again?

[Gordon A]

Possible, but very expensive!

A lot depends on the condition she was in when stuffed and mounted.

For example you may be looking at a full firebox, boiler and smokebox replacement for starters, then there is the tender, again could be a full rebuild of the body.

 

Gordon A

Bristol

[MarkC]

AFAIK Lode Star won't be considered for a return to steam because of her being in 'ex works' condition, other than the asbestos removal that was necessary a few years ago

[The Stationmaster]

'Lode Star' was considered for restoring to mainline operational condition for GW 150 but fell by the wayside very early as the driving wheel tyres are very thin and well below permitted thickness - and that was without considering the boiler condition or anything else.  But basically it means a full survey of everything from boiler and firebox through all the mechanical arts  and the wheels and even such things as the thickness of the steel in the drawbars etc.  

 

So with any loco it would be first a cursory check to see if it's worth doing a detailed examination of it in one piece, then doing as full an examination as possible without lifting it or removing the boiler - if that is all satisfactory and the budget is available you then add a large contingency to hopefully take account of whatever problems come to light as it is dismantled.  Just look at the story of 'Flying Scotsman' and while the project has clearly not been at all well managed there is a trail of 'work arising' which even the best managed project would only have uncovered as work proceeded.

[aaron14xx]

I would love to see Lode Star return to steam, but sadly this my not ever happen

 

Coming from a GWR nut, it would be a splendid sight to see the basis for the ever popular "Castles" belching smoke up and down the mainline.

 

But, she is ex works, being fully? Restored at Swindon, with all parts stripped, cleaned and painted before Swindon for the NRM? so there is that factor, and could we justify a restoration for Lode Star, after the mess made by Scotsman?

 

Believe me, of she were to be restored, I would help and donate, but sadly, this is all a dream.

 

Unless someone wants to prove me wrong

 

* might email the NRM asking about a possibly future restoration of Lode Star actually...

[The Stationmaster]

I would love to see Lode Star return to steam, but sadly this my not ever happen

 

Coming from a GWR nut, it would be a splendid sight to see the basis for the ever popular "Castles" belching smoke up and down the mainline.

 

But, she is ex works, being fully? Restored at Swindon, with all parts stripped, cleaned and painted before Swindon for the NRM? so there is that factor, and could we justify a restoration for Lode Star, after the mess made by Scotsman?

 

Believe me, of she were to be restored, I would help and donate, but sadly, this is all a dream.

 

Unless someone wants to prove me wrong

 

* might email the NRM asking about a possibly future restoration of Lode Star actually...

Answer in my post immediately above I think - firstly all the driving wheel tyres need to be renewed, secondly the loco was never restored to working order by Swindon but as a museum exhibit and no doubt like other locos similarly treated by Swindon (e.g. 3440) there are various components which might look good but aren't (and might not even be correct for the engine).  So if you want to cough up start saving because it would cost £00s of thousands - hence it being dropped as a practical proposition back in 1984/85.

 

And before you ask the boiler which went onto 3440 when it was returned to museum status had not been fully overhauled and most of the stays were badly wasted, including the one I've got lying aound somewhere.

[Coldgunner]

Am I right in my belief that some parts of Lode Star are merely cosmetic?

[The Stationmaster]

Am I right in my belief that some parts of Lode Star are merely cosmetic?

I believe so - it certainly hasn't got all the parts necessary to make it work according to what was said in 1985.

[MarkC]

'Lode Star' was considered for restoring to mainline operational condition for GW 150 but fell by the wayside very early as the driving wheel tyres are very thin and well below permitted thickness - and that was without considering the boiler condition or anything else.  But basically it means a full survey of everything from boiler and firebox through all the mechanical arts  and the wheels and even such things as the thickness of the steel in the drawbars etc.  

 

So with any loco it would be first a cursory check to see if it's worth doing a detailed examination of it in one piece, then doing as full an examination as possible without lifting it or removing the boiler - if that is all satisfactory and the budget is available you then add a large contingency to hopefully take account of whatever problems come to light as it is dismantled.  Just look at the story of 'Flying Scotsman' and while the project has clearly not been at all well managed there is a trail of 'work arising' which even the best managed project would only have uncovered as work proceeded.

Thanks for the fuller explanation, Mike. I'm sure the 'ex works' thing is because the same arguments were used when the possibility of restoring "City of Birmingham" came up.

 

Mark

[Miss Prism]

Didn't Lode Star's 4-cone ejectors get pinched for another loco?

[t-b-g]

It has been proven that it is possible to produce every single component needed to make pretty much any steam loco move again. The question becomes one of "Should it be done?" rather than "Can it be done?". 

 

If Lode Star needs new wheels, boiler/firebox and other major componenets and to fit them would result in the removal of genuine historical items then I think that the preservation of what is there becomes a major factor. It there was a Star in ex "Barry" condition around, I wouldn't have any problem with it being restored to steam with whatever new bits were needed but the preservation of Lode Star was a historical event in itself and it seems a shame to nullify the work done then with a major rebuild. 

 

Perhaps an exercise similar to the one being carried out to recreate extinct GWR classes may be a better way of getting a "Star".

 

I would love to see some of the older locos back in steam. I remember seeing GNR No1 at Loughborough when it steamed 30 odd years ago. It was magnificent to see it gliding along. But I think we have to accept that major work to make such relics steam again gets more unlikely as time passes.

 

This may account for the big number of new build projects under way. We really don't need to see another Black 5 steam, or a Standard 2-6-4T but a Brighton Atlantic or a NER 0-4-4T, now they will be worth going to see.

 

Tony

[PhilH]

Things move on though - what was considered impossible 30 years ago is now almost the norm if enough money is available.

 

A case in point, chopping off and replacing the front 12 feet of 60019's mainframes - nobody would have considered doing thateven 20 years ago. Plus of course, dare I say it, that Tornado thing!

 

Never say never....

[OnTheBranchline]

It has been proven that it is possible to produce every single component needed to make pretty much any steam loco move again. The question becomes one of "Should it be done?" rather than "Can it be done?". 

 

If Lode Star needs new wheels, boiler/firebox and other major componenets and to fit them would result in the removal of genuine historical items then I think that the preservation of what is there becomes a major factor. It there was a Star in ex "Barry" condition around, I wouldn't have any problem with it being restored to steam with whatever new bits were needed but the preservation of Lode Star was a historical event in itself and it seems a shame to nullify the work done then with a major rebuild. 

 

Perhaps an exercise similar to the one being carried out to recreate extinct GWR classes may be a better way of getting a "Star".

 

I would love to see some of the older locos back in steam. I remember seeing GNR No1 at Loughborough when it steamed 30 odd years ago. It was magnificent to see it gliding along. But I think we have to accept that major work to make such relics steam again gets more unlikely as time passes.

 

This may account for the big number of new build projects under way. We really don't need to see another Black 5 steam, or a Standard 2-6-4T but a Brighton Atlantic or a NER 0-4-4T, now they will be worth going to see.

 

Tony

 

Isn't every working steam engine these days worth seeing? Even an Austerity?

[fallen]

At some stage it must make more sense to build a replica ie a completely new full size "model" and leave the original to the museum and the conservationists.

 

Frank

[t-b-g]

Isn't every working steam engine these days worth seeing? Even an Austerity?

 

Personal choice comes in there. I enjoy watching pretty much all steam locos (in fact I can't think of any I don't like!) but there are some that are more likely to get me to a preserved railway than others. If a preserved railway was running with a couple of Black 5s and a couple of Standard tanks or Austerities (I presume you mean the 0-6-0 saddle tank variety) I would probably go if nearby or as part of a friends day out but I wouldn't make a special effort to go to see them. If Butler Henderson and the O4 were running together, I would make a huge effort to get to see them.

 

On the other hand, if, say an Austerity tank was working a "Cromford & High Peak" event, giving brake van rides or suchlike, I would be there like a shot! They just never look right to me pulling Mk1s.

 

So my enthusiasm depends on the locos and the event. Seeing an 8F and a Black 5 blasting away double heading on a 40 plus wagon freight on the GCR a few years ago remains a high point of my preservation activities but there are enough of those types around to make me think that restoring (or building new) other types should take priority.  

 

But I am happy to accept that others would have other views!

 

Tony

[Torn-on-the-platform]

Slightly off topic, but I've always wondered what would happen if you fired up an out of ticket locomotive? Obviously purely hypothetical, I understand that it would be dangerous and uninsured to do so, but the Bluebell's 75027 for example... its a few years since it last steamed but as far as I remember, its withdrawal was planned, rather than it suffering a crippling failure. I can't think of a physical reason as to why it, or another loco in a similar situation, couldn't move under its own power, but I'm no expert.

[Unknown Warrior]

A new build Star would be a good idea. Plenty of No. 1 boilers available on 28XX's that will probably never be restored plus other bits from dismantled locos that have already donated parts to other new builds. The driving wheel patterns from the Saint project. Sure there will be a suitable tender available. Could be quite straight forward really. Just need the money. Another project for Didcot in due course!

 

If you did light up an out of ticket loco and it went bang you would be in serious do - do if you lived to tell the tale!

[roythebus]

Serious "do" indeed! If you lived to tell the tale. Obviously locos "out of ticket" DO have to be steamed up at some time, but only after an extensive survey and repairs, then hydraulic testing to make sure the boiler isn't going to go bang!

 

It IS possible to restore stuffed engine, the IoW Terrier, formerly outside a pub on Hayling Island; the loco that was taken from Butlins to Bressingham many years ago. A word of warning, ALWAYS remove the cylinder covers before moving. The IoW found that out when they moved a loco. Kids had dropped a lot of shingle and clutter down the chimney over the years. When the loco was moved onto the low loader, a lot of damage was caused to the piston and cylinders!

[slilley]

Whilst I am sure there are a whole number of "stuffed" locos steam and diesel we would like to see run again, there are obviously limits as to what can be done. However if you are a railway modeller and in my case looking to model a fictional preserved railway, all bets are on. On a fictional preserved model railway Lode Star could easily turn up on a charter or whatever.

 

Just a thought

 

Simon

[Katier]

It IS possible to restore stuffed engine, the IoW Terrier, formerly outside a pub on Hayling Island; the loco that was taken from Butlins to Bressingham many years ago. A word of warning, ALWAYS remove the cylinder covers before moving. The IoW found that out when they moved a loco. Kids had dropped a lot of shingle and clutter down the chimney over the years. When the loco was moved onto the low loader, a lot of damage was caused to the piston and cylinders!

 

On a smaller scale, isn't the FR now planning to return 'Princess' to running condition - after being stuffed and mounted for many years.

[Paul.Uni]

It's 'Welsh Pony' not 'Princess' that is going to be returned to working condition.

[melmerby]

IMHO 46235 "City of Birmingham" should be restored to mainline condition.

The City Council won't entertain it, claiming it is in "historic" condition and shouldn't be messed with.

AFAIK It had a cosmetic restoration before it was presented to the City and is in far from "historic" condition.

 

It has no significance to Birmingham apart from the name.

It never regularly worked into the city.

 

If it were restored to main line working and based at Tyseley, it could be a bigger asset to the City than leaving it "stuffed" in the abysmal Think Tank.

 

Keith

[tomparryharry]

Taking Lode Star as an example, then it's all down to money, experience & will.

 

A lot of item on a steam locomotive are classed as 'conumables'. The cost of consumables can vary greatly, from smoke tubes, to driving wheel tyres and smokeboxes. If you've got the money, then it's less of a problem.

 

I'd be much more concerned with the front end of Lode Star, than anything else. I've got a gut feeling that it's not all there. Something about the smokebox; not quite right.

 

Also, don't forget or under-estimate the NRM. They, after all, have the last say in this, and they've got a lot on their plate with that dodgy Doncaster job (my words).

 

With the rise of the replica locomotive, I'd be inclined to leave the star where it is. "If you want one, you can measure this one, but that's it". That's what is liable to happen with the Dean Goods.

 

I'm sure Sir Haydn of this parish can expound it further.

 

Kind regards,

Ian

[Katier]

It's 'Welsh Pony' not 'Princess' that is going to be returned to working condition.

 

I was close

[Mr Brunel]

On a similar theme, what are Caerphilly Castle's prospects? I assume she comes under the heading of 'possible, but expensive'?