4-TC Information

[Geep7]

Related to my topic in the Modifying & Detailing R-T-R thread (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/77865-4tc-from-ymrv-mk1-coaches/), i'm looking for some information around details of the inner ends and underframes of a 4-TC unit.

 

I know that all the coaches were modified / rebuilt loco-hauled MK1's and that all but the BSK had very little underframe equipment, but what underframe equipment they had, and positions, is hard to tell from the photographs I have access to.

 

The same can be said for the inner ends of the coaches. I know that they were modified with the SR style jumper cables, but apart from a couple of close up pics of non-identified coaches, there's very little to go on.

 

Were the steps removed on every end of each coach, or were they retained on some? The same with the shape of the jumper cable cabinets, where they all the same on every coach, or different?

 

If anyone could help with some diagrams / pictures, i'd be greatful, but just some info.pointing me in the right direction would be enough.

 

Many thanks

[pdanny]

Hi Chris,

I'm currently building a 4REP & a 4TC in 4mm using MJT kits so i know the problems youre facing regarding this detail. I had a nightmare doing the inner ends as they differed on both units, some being rectangular and others being what i can only describe as Guitar case shaped.

 

I searched extensively on Google gathering pics of both units and this was a real challenge as there are very few but i did manage to find a few pics that showed the inner ends of the TBSK & TF of 4TC unit 417 (8017) which were a real help. When I get a chance tonight, I'll post these pics up for you.

 

Dan  

[bécasse]

It is quite possible that there was considerable variation between individual vehicles as I seem to recollect that donor vehicles were selected on the basis of condition rather than adherence to any particular build batch.

 

In theory, BR Mk I coaches were supposed to have been built on jigs to ensure uniformity, in practice craftsmen at the works that built them continued to use their craft techniques and few vehicles were absolutely identical even though they appeared to be - something that was often discovered the hard way when modifications were required and it was discovered that a "standard kit" often wouldn't fit.

 

Remarkably, even the 4-VEP units that were built new for the Bournemouth electrification exhibited considerable detail variation which certainly caused some head-scratching in later years when whole or part fleet modifications were required.

 

One advantage of this, and the paucity of detail photographs, is that if you do get something wrong - layout of steps or pipework, for example - and someone questions it, you just say that you modelled to photographs and clearly your chosen prototype was different.

[pdanny]

 

Here are the pictures i found most useful. There not mine but I'm really grateful to the guy that took them as they're the only ones i found that were fairly conclusive. Hope they help you too.

[Gwiwer]

I believe there were also differences between the batches as converted.  The main batch included the 3TC units which were later given a TF and became 4TC sets; the newly-converted vehicles were done under different lot numbers and with some detail differences right across the units.  The most readily apparent to passengers was change to Vep-style hard-squab seats instead of the deep (internally sprung IIRC) cushions of the main fleet.  What went on below the floor was of less interest to me at the time I'm afraid.

[mike hughes]

Related to my topic in the Modifying & Detailing R-T-R thread (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/77865-4tc-from-ymrv-mk1-coaches/), i'm looking for some information around details of the inner ends and underframes of a 4-TC unit.

 

I know that all the coaches were modified / rebuilt loco-hauled MK1's and that all but the BSK had very little underframe equipment, but what underframe equipment they had, and positions, is hard to tell from the photographs I have access to.

 

The same can be said for the inner ends of the coaches. I know that they were modified with the SR style jumper cables, but apart from a couple of close up pics of non-identified coaches, there's very little to go on.

 

Were the steps removed on every end of each coach, or were they retained on some? The same with the shape of the jumper cable cabinets, where they all the same on every coach, or different?

 

If anyone could help with some diagrams / pictures, i'd be greatful, but just some info.pointing me in the right direction would be enough.

 

Many thanks

Does this help

80's Rail | Class 438/491 (4TC)

 

As done one of these units in 7mm had to look for photos a few years back and cant remember where I found them. Had a feeling it was on the archieve section of RMweb but not sure

Michael

[pdanny]

Wow, great collection. Certainly helped me Michael thanks.

[Horizontal]

I've bashed both a 4 REP and a 3TC in 7mm scale out of Easybuild Kits - You might like to see my article in March 2012 Railway Modeller - If you want to see what I've done in more detail, please let me know

 

:-)

[Geep7]

Thanks for all the suggestions and information. The link to 80's Rail seems to have shed some light on the situation, though no exact placings of equipments, so I guess it'll have to be a lot of educated guesswork..

[mike hughes]

I think what i found before is in here somewhere but cant check

417_TBSK70826f_Meldon_060304 - Martyn Read - SmugMug

 

and put some photos of the O gauge 4TC I built in the EMU sets in below

 

www.flickr.com/photos/milesperhour1974

 

 

 

[Clive Mortimore]

Does this help

80's Rail | Class 438/491 (4TC)

 

As done one of these units in 7mm had to look for photos a few years back and cant remember where I found them. Had a feeling it was on the archieve section of RMweb but not sure

Michael

Hi Michael

 

Just spent over an hour looking at EMUs and DMUs on this site, excellent.

[TravisM]

I know this is slightly off topic but I want to build a 4TC to go on my London Underground layout.  Using Bachmann Mk1's, what do I need to use.  Any help would be great.

 

Julian Sprott

[Horizontal]

1 x BSK

1 x FK

2 x TSO

 

You will need to replace the toilet and adjacent compartment of each TSO with a driving cab and entrance vestible accordingly

 

There is little underfloor detail required on the TSOs and FK - But, a motor/generator unit is fitted under the guard's office on the BSK. Also the guard's office window is deleted on the BSK

 

Then you will need to fit 3 (jail) bars over each passenger entrance, before applying a teak finish livery to each coach

 

This is just the beginning - So, GOOD LUCK!

 

For more info, please see my article in the March 2012 RM

 

' Hope this helps!

 

:-)

 

P.S.- Don't forget to remove the buffers in between each vehicle within the set, and remove the louvre bits on the toilet windows in the centre coaches!

Edited July 20, 2014 by Horizontal

[TravisM]

Oh, easy................not lol.  I knew about the driving ends and I was wondering where I can get those, plus the cab side windows?

 

Wonder if Bachmann or Hornby will save me the job lol.

 

Julian Sprott

[crompton 33]

Dart castings stock TC driving ends.

[Horizontal]

This is what I have done in '0' scale using parts supplied by 'Easybuild Coaches' of Wadebridge in Cornwall

 

Although the prototype set (412) was a four car set, I am temporarily running mine as a 3TC at the moment, as the FK is still attic awaiting assembly!

 

'Hope this helps!

 

:-)

[TravisM]

Think I might use the Dart Castings Coach sides for the two DTSO's, at least they will be correct.  Just got to wait for them to come back into stock.

 

Julian Sprott

[Dorkingian]

Some photos here may be of interest:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/84103-dorking-garden-railway-videos-in-00-scale/?p=3207890

[Ian Morgan]

and here

[Geep7]

I'd forgotten about this thread, and should have updated it. I have mostly finished my 3-TC set, and added pictures to the other thread linked to in my first post on this one.

 

Here are a couple though for completeness on this thread.

 

 

 

[Lacathedrale]

Looking very nice, how did you achieve that? As per Horizontal's advice? I'm considering getting some duff lima Mk1s for this purpose (rather than cutting up the new Bachmann bits)

[Geep7]

Looking very nice, how did you achieve that? As per Horizontal's advice? I'm considering getting some duff lima Mk1s for this purpose (rather than cutting up the new Bachmann bits)

Without repeating too much from my other topic on the subject, the 2 driving trailers were converted from a couple of the 'free' Mk1 coaches that came with the first issue of the 'Your Model Railway Village' series of magazines.

 

The construction of the coaches was the same as per the current generation of Hornby and Bachmann Mk1's so split down nicely into the underframe, sides and roof. The sides were cut and shut to give the correct window and door layout, and an MJT cast end used for the cab end.

 

The brake coach is a standard Bachmann BSK stripped down, with the non-corridor side guards window filled in.

 

Lima Mk1's have been used in the past to good effect. So give it a go. The MJT ends I think were meant for Lima Mk1's initially.

 

Another suggestion is to get the Replica Mk1 components plus MJT sides and ends, which is how i'm going to do a 4-Cig.

[Lacathedrale]

Excellent thank  you - do you know if there's any difference between the various Mk1 repaints that Lima put out, when used in this context? There are always stacks of SR Green sets on eBay but nothing in blue/grey!

 

Have a wonderful day,

Edited October 19, 2018 by Lacathedrale

[Geep7]

Excellent thank you - do you know if there's any difference between the various Mk1 repaints that Lima put out, when used in this context? There are always stacks of SR Green sets on eBay but nothing in blue/grey!

 

Have a wonderful day,

In OO IIRC, Lima did a Brake Second (BSK), Corridor Second (SK), Corridor Composite (CK) and a Restaurant Buffet (RB). Lima put them out in a multitude of liveries, but I think the blue/grey ones were always thin on the ground.

 

For the TC, the one place you'll need to do some tricky work is with the Corridor First, as Lima never did one. You'll need to cut and shut it from a couple of SK's as I have tried with my TC set.