chris newman Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Hi guys A Quick two part question, 1)When did Peaks first appear in Cornwall.?? 2) Were they in Green --with or Without "D" Prefix please?? MTIA Regds Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornish trains jez Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 I think there may be some dates in John Vaughans "Diesels in Devon and Cornwall" book. I'll check later on when I get home. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornish trains jez Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 John Vaughan indicates that Peaks could be seen on inter regional services on the Cornish Mainline from 1969 - 1985. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris newman Posted November 7, 2013 Author Share Posted November 7, 2013 John Vaughan indicates that Peaks could be seen on inter regional services on the Cornish Mainline from 1969 - 1985. Jez, Many thanks for that, does the book make any reference at all to the liveries in that time scale?? regds Chris http://www.derbysulzers.com/class45wr.html Mickey, A Very good link thanks, very informative. Regds chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornish trains jez Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Jez, Many thanks for that, does the book make any reference at all to the liveries in that time scale?? regds Chris Hi Chris, It doesn't unfortunately, but the photos featured over the two pages are corporate BR blue with a range of split and central headcode. I may have some pictures of green ones in a couple of my magazines. I'll have a hunt through them over the next day or so for you to see if I can find out any more info. Best regards, Jeremy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Three 'Peaks' appear in this volume. Unfortunately, non are dated, but my copy was published in 1973, so I suspect Mickey is having a minor memory lapse . All three are in BR Corporate Blue: Nos 80, 96 & 154. The Cornish mainline album was first published 1973, then reprinted in '74, and about 90% of the photos in it were taken in March and April 1972 (hence the lack of any North British Class 22s, which were all withdrawn by 1/1/72), some of which also appear in other Bradford Barton books. 'H.L. Ford' is said to be a pseudonym for another author by the way! Some of the captions have mistakes in them regarding loco numbers, but it's a fine book all the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 DoCML has some classic caption errors, including the identity of the loco on the cover. It purports to be D815 Druid, but the loco in the photo is blue and Druid was withdrawn in maroon livery. As for green Peaks in Cornwall, they most likely candidates would be 46s. The 45s were all blue by 1970, but some of the 46s remained green through 1971. Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris newman Posted November 7, 2013 Author Share Posted November 7, 2013 DoCML has some classic caption errors, including the identity of the loco on the cover. It purports to be D815 Druid, but the loco in the photo is blue and Druid was withdrawn in maroon livery. As for green Peaks in Cornwall, they most likely candidates would be 46s. The 45s were all blue by 1970, but some of the 46s remained green through 1971. Geoff Endacott Geoff, That's useful to Know thanks, I might just shift the time frame for my modelling period!! Regds Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugd1022 Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 DoCML has some classic caption errors, including the identity of the loco on the cover. It purports to be D815 Druid, but the loco in the photo is blue and Druid was withdrawn in maroon livery. As for green Peaks in Cornwall, they most likely candidates would be 46s. The 45s were all blue by 1970, but some of the 46s remained green through 1971. Geoff Endacott Warship on the cover is 805 Geoff and it appears elsewhere in the book decribed as being 855. According to Hugh Dady 'Mr.Ford' pretty much made the captions up as he went along, just to add something to an otherwise pictorial album! Quite a few of the Warship shots in the book are wrongly identified, but it certainly doesn't detract from the content. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flood Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 My crude list from the Railway Observer (not always 100% correct) has the following: Repainted approx Jan/Feb/March 1970 39, 42, 45, 57, 77, 84, 119, 125, 131, 136 Repainted approx May/June 1970 79, 92, 103, 116, 133 Repainted June/July 1970 101 Repainted Nov 1971 (?, dual braked date) 132 All others prior to 1970. As Geoff says quite a few 46s were green for longer: 138 11/71, 141 10/71, 143 4/71, 146 2/71, 147 1/73, 154 1/72, 155 10/71, 156 4/71, 157 11/71, 159 2/72, 163 5/72, 165 12/72 (that's just the W.R ones) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris newman Posted November 7, 2013 Author Share Posted November 7, 2013 My crude list from the Railway Observer (not always 100% correct) has the following: Repainted approx Jan/Feb/March 1970 39, 42, 45, 57, 77, 84, 119, 125, 131, 136 Repainted approx May/June 1970 79, 92, 103, 116, 133 Repainted June/July 1970 101 Repainted Nov 1971 (?, dual braked date) 132 All others prior to 1970. As Geoff says quite a few 46s were green for longer: 138 11/71, 141 10/71, 143 4/71, 146 2/71, 147 1/73, 154 1/72, 155 10/71, 156 4/71, 157 11/71, 159 2/72, 163 5/72, 165 12/72 (that's just the W.R ones) Hi Flood I appreciate the effort thanks, a useful list, Basically if I model not later than 1970 I should be able to slip in my Green Peaks !! Regds Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornish trains jez Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Hi Chris, Check out the Cornwall Railways Society. This link is useful, take a look at the section relating to Truro, there is a black and white photo with the header suggesting that it is a green peak. http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/cornwall-railway-gallery---2-main-line-scorrier-to-plymouth.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Those repaint dates for the 45s seem a bit late. I have a note from livery expert Russell Saxton that the only green 45 left on 1st January 1970 was 119 - and that was in works awaiting a repaint. The Railway Observer reports often seem to give dates which are a few months after the actual event. Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flood Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Those repaint dates for the 45s seem a bit late. I have a note from livery expert Russell Saxton that the only green 45 left on 1st January 1970 was 119 - and that was in works awaiting a repaint. The Railway Observer reports often seem to give dates which are a few months after the actual event. Geoff Endacott Can't agree more Geoff and some of the info about locos remaining in green after 1970 Russell has found to be basically incorrect. Like I said, it's a crude list but does at least give some kind of representation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris newman Posted November 7, 2013 Author Share Posted November 7, 2013 HI Guys, Many thanks for everyone's efforts today in a bid to help me out--You Did!! the list of loco's provided has given me a start point (copied & pasted in Word) All I have to do now to se what Correlation I can find in the Sulzer link provided -should put me in good stead to operate the right loco's on my proposed layout. Regds Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornish trains jez Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 HI Guys, Many thanks for everyone's efforts today in a bid to help me out--You Did!! the list of loco's provided has given me a start point (copied & pasted in Word) All I have to do now to se what Correlation I can find in the Sulzer link provided -should put me in good stead to operate the right loco's on my proposed layout. Regds Chris Looking forward to seeing the proposed layout Chris! Any hints on where it may be based on? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 ....Traction magazine November 2005 has an article called 'How the West was won' (Google Tee Publishing of Leamington Spa if you want a copy). This is a good account of the early days of diesel electric locos in the South West of England.....an eyewitness account of a green D49 'The Manchester Regiment' arriving in Paignton in July 1968 sets the tone for what follows. 1969 is quoted as the year when class 45s and class 46s started to visit Cornwall regularly. There is a great pic of 58 'the King's Own Royal Border Regiment' in blue passing a green D138 at Plymouth North Rd in July 1971. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Hi Chris, Check out the Cornwall Railways Society. This link is useful, take a look at the section relating to Truro, there is a black and white photo with the header suggesting that it is a green peak. http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/cornwall-railway-gallery---2-main-line-scorrier-to-plymouth.html The green Peak is D155 and the photo was taken by Neil Phillips. Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted November 7, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 7, 2013 Plenty of green peaks reached Plymouth. The question is did the cross the Tamar? I don't recall seeing a green one in the Royal Duchy and a quick flick through some books only shows blue ones. Was there perhaps a restriction on them at one time (account their 1Co-Co1 bogies perhaps, or their axle weight) in Cornwall as there was with the Kings in earlier years? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted November 8, 2013 Share Posted November 8, 2013 ...those that were green in 1969 would be fair game to model on a Cornish layout. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris newman Posted November 8, 2013 Author Share Posted November 8, 2013 Looking forward to seeing the proposed layout Chris! Any hints on where it may be based on? Jez from the two counties I like most-- Devon and Cornwall there are too many places to choose from!! --However "I have a cunning plan" 1)initially a terminus to fiddle yard layout around 3 walls of my room(12x12 approx.)in N. 1a)Station to be able to take at least 3 platforms of 8 coach trains+ stabling for at least 4x 8coach sets-2 bays 1 for dmu branch service the other for parcels, papers and Mail. 1b) MPD -T/T Roundhouse (Based on St Blazey(if Kernow scale theirs down) 1c) Goods-goods shed +tracks for forming trains as clay and milk and cement is brought in from branches. 2)Time Scale -Approx 1962 to 1970--So I can catch the last of steam-Early Diesels and DMU's.(hence all my questions about types and liveries in the different groups) 3)Services From the Midlands-Waterloo-Paddington-----that's the theory!!---Just need to Win the Lottery!! LOL regds chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris newman Posted November 8, 2013 Author Share Posted November 8, 2013 Jez from the two counties I like most-- Devon and Cornwall there are too many places to choose from!! --However "I have a cunning plan" 1)initially a terminus to fiddle yard layout around 3 walls of my room(12x12 approx.)in N. 1a)Station to be able to take at least 3 platforms of 8 coach trains+ stabling for at least 4x 8coach sets-2 bays 1 for dmu branch service the other for parcels, papers and Mail. 1b) MPD -T/T Roundhouse (Based on St Blazey(if Kernow scale theirs down) 1c) Goods-goods shed +tracks for forming trains as clay and milk and cement is brought in from branches. 2)Time Scale -Approx 1962 to 1970--So I can catch the last of steam-Early Diesels and DMU's.(hence all my questions about types and liveries in the different groups) 3)Services From the Midlands-Waterloo-Paddington-----that's the theory!!---Just need to Win the Lottery!! LOL regds chris Jez, sorry I forgot to mention i'm also working on a "Plan B" as well!!!! Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted November 9, 2013 Share Posted November 9, 2013 Mornin' all, Looking through a few publications....green 45s & 46s in 1969 included: D39 SYP in the earlier green and D84 'Royal Corps of Transport' SYP in the later green scheme. D138 FYP (the later 46001) wore the faded earlier green scheme whilst D163 'Leicestershire and Derbyshire Yeomanry' SYP had the later green. Quite a variety of liveries, just in those four. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris newman Posted November 9, 2013 Author Share Posted November 9, 2013 Chris, Western region steam finished early in Cornwall, either 1961 or 1962; not sure which without further research. It was part of the grand plan to eliminate it west of Newton Abbott as soon as possible. I personally saw classes 08, 22, 42, 43, D600, 47 and 52 during this period. I have seen photo of a Hymek near St. Austell, but personally never saw one. I saw my first 25 No 5180 during November 1971 if that helps with a bit of variety. Waterloo services would have been restricted to the ex-Southern route and would not come down the Cornish BR(W) line. You would have seen southern steam until January 1965 on the North Cornwall line. 34002 'Salisbury' came down the main line circa 1965 on a special. Edit : Add comment about 34002. Hi PD&SWJR, Thanks for letting me Know that--"DOH" --I'll move my terminal to the Devon/Cornwall Border and expand the time frame by a couple of years --or resort to plan "B"--A Junction Station feeding North and South Cornwall (Do you think that's feasible/reasonable). Re Class 47 Were they TTG named WR loco's ?? Regds Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris newman Posted November 9, 2013 Author Share Posted November 9, 2013 Mornin' all, Looking through a few publications....green 45s & 46s in 1969 included: D39 SYP in the earlier green and D84 'Royal Corps of Transport' SYP in the later green scheme. D138 FYP (the later 46001) wore the faded earlier green scheme whilst D163 'Leicestershire and Derbyshire Yeomanry' SYP had the later green. Quite a variety of liveries, just in those four. Dave Hi Dave, Can you just expand on earlier grn/syp-later grn/syp please, does that mean with or without Offwhite/Light grey Grilles?? and if so which way round is it?? thanks for your time and effort. Regds Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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