Cambrian and GWR 0 Gauge layout -Revised Plans

[The Stationmaster]

A number of things Don but first the track layout where I am fairly sure what you have shown as a catch point in advance of East Box No 23 is the other way round and is there to catch runaways from the Bontnewydd direction.  I do wonder if it was slotted as well but as there is no signal drawn to read through it towards No.12 points it might not have been.

 

The way 3 at the East Box and 4 at the West Box worked is fairly straightfoward and is basically back slotting to ensure that the Distant for the 'box in advance couldn't come off unless the Start in advance of it was also off.  Quite how it was done is a somewhat moot question as it would have required - as far as I can work out - a fairly substantial weight somewhere unless it was done using a rather odd pulley arrangement - possibly even two wires running from the lever 9which would have been the simplest way in my view.

 

The numbering remains something of a mystery as both original diagrams show the efforts of two different hands and I doubt that will ever be resolved so what you have is as good as any.  But some oddities to resolve -

 

the first is what are drawn as distant signals on the West Box diagram - worked by levers 19 & 16.  in reality, assuming the numbering was correct on the original sketch these were most likely to have been repeaters, in whatever form the Cambrian arranged its repeaters (the implication of the original sketch is that they might have looked similar to distant signals).

 

However there is no sign of one in the opposite direction on the original sketches so I presume there wasn't one so what you drawn as east Box 25 wasn't there and 25 worked the lower arm distant on West Box Home Signal (No.2) and was also back-slotted by West Box's Starter, No.4.

 

The ground signal you have numbered 10 in blue should be numbered in red.

 

I suspect the original note about 11 & 12 standing normal for Up trains is probably partially correct - the leads show that in effect that 11 was set towards the Up but 12 stood normal for the straight road (out of the cattle pens siding).  it might well have been arranged that way to simplify the locking but just as likely as an inbuilt reminder to teh Signalman that he couldn't accept trains without having to do something and thus without having to think why he was doing it.

 

And there really was a block section in each direction between the two 'boxes but it was in reality no longer than the thickness of a signalpost (and far from unique in that respect!).  Here I think lies some of the explanation for the way the points off the approaching single lines were arranged - at the GW end the Signalman would have to reverse 8 & 9 before he could accept a train from Bontnewydd anmd unless he was authorised to accept under the warning (or had the would also need to have Line Clear from the West Box before he could accept the train.  I know nothing about Cambrian Block Regulations but I suspect they weren't much different from those of the GWR in a situation like this and the Signalman would not only have to set the road but would also require an acceptance from the East Box before he could accept a train from Penmaenpool.

 

All in all an interesting arrangement and no doubt the GWR were glad to put it all on one 'box as soon as possible to make things a lot simpler.

 

 

[Donw]

Thank you once again for your knowledgeable comments.

 

The catch point is drawn the wrong way round it is just me.

 

3W and 4E you have clarified for me

 

19 & 16 agreed they are repeaters I would have thought a taller post simpler unless it was re-using an earlier signal which was there.

 

East 25 is a bit of conjecture, at the torn edge of the diagram there appears to be the top of a signal shown on a seperate post although not shown on the west diagram I thought it could be a distant which did not require slotting as it would be locked until the starter was reversed. As there is a difference in the dates of the two diagrams perhaps it was removed as it had little purpose. However your suggest that it was slotted with west 2 makes more sense perhpas there was more info on the sketch which has been lost.

 

East 10 stupid error why didn't I spot it I have been studying the diagram?

 

The note refered to 10 & 12 I thought 11 & 12 made more sense 10 being an FPL. At that date I assume they were still lever reversed to lock.

 

I take your point about the sections. I was assuming they would gain line clear to ensure adequate clearance but even with line clear the home/starter to allow the train into the platform proper could not be pulled off until the Cambrian signalman acted. I do wonder how passengers felt when a train stopped at the ticket platform and they had to wait before getting to the proper platform life must have been less hurried in those days.

 

Your comment about the GW being glad to put it all into one box is born out by the priorty given to the work in 1922. After 50 odd years of swapping engines and all that the station would have been much quieter apart from a bit of banking in the holiday season I presume.

 

Don

[The Stationmaster]

What is just about visible on the torn bit looks like a stop arm (could be a very indistinct distant arm, but I doubt it) and as a stop arm that would fit with what is shown on the West Box sketch as the Distant for East Box was the lower arm on West's Home Signal, No2.

 

The back slotting on the distants is an interesting area in itself but of course it clearly demonstrates that they were worked distants and obviously - in both directions - they would be worked by the 'box in advance although how often they were actually pulled off could probably be counted in terms of the number of teeth on the average chicken.

 

BTW ticket platforms were quite a common feature of the early years of the railways in the approaches to terminus stations (which Dolgelly was as far as the GWR was concerned) although I don't know when they fell out of favour.

[Donw]

The goods news is the Timetable book for Cambrian 1904 has arrived. The Working time bit is interesting the section for Dolgelley shows some light engine movements and the goods trains and one mixed. It doesn't give any details about which trains run  through. However there is a page listing the through coaches and the starting times. So I now have to wade through the timetables  whch incidently show connections from all over the place to the Cambrian.  I will post something when I have made sense of it.

One of the fascinting parts of the timetables shows the summary of trains between Buttington and Welshpool a lovely mix of LNWR and Cambrian but not enough GWR for me. Another is the times from Pwllheli to Bournouth! it gives times to MAngotsfield but doesn't list Bitton!

Don

[Donw]

I have been busy trawling through the Cambrian timetables and append here what I think is correct. The GWR information comes partly from Stationmaster Mike from the 1891 WTT and partly from information on through carriages and connections shown in the timetables. At the moment I am lacking information on the Up details for Goods and other non passenger moments which hopefuly Mike may unearth for me. There have been some surprises such as two goods arrivals from Barmouth junction within 70 minutes. The first is shown as a goods from Machynlleth to Dolgelly which would also pick traffic left by a Pwllheli to Barmouth Jcn. The second seems to collect traffic from a later Machynlleth to Pwllheli goods. Also puzzling it the arrival at 6:25pm of a Mixed train originating from Barmouth Jcn. 

 

First attempt

 

DOLGELLEY Train Movements based on Cambrain 1904 and GWR 1891 WTT

 

 

6:43 A GWR Mail and Goods

 

6:55 A Light Engine from Penmaenpool

 

7:20 D Cambrian Passenger

 

7:55 A Light Engine from Penmaenpool

 

8:15 D Cambrian Passenger

 

8:25 A Cambrian Passenger

 

8:30 D GWR Passenger

 

8:40 A GWR passenger

 

8:45 D Cambrian Passenger

 

9:40 A Cambrian Passenger

 

9:52 A GWR Passenger

 

10:15 A GWR Passenger

 

10:40 A GWR Through Coaches

10:45 D from Barmouth to Birmingham and Manchester

 

11:45 A GWR Passenger

 

11:50 D Cambrian Passenger

 

12:40 A GWR Goods

 

1:07 A GWR Through Coaches

1:10 D from Pwllheli to Birmingham and London

 

1:30 A Cambrian Goods from Machynlleth

 

1:35 D GWR passenger

 

2:40 A Cambrian Goods

 

3:10 A GWR Through Coaches

3:20 D from Barmouth to Birkenhead and Birmingham

 

3:20 A GWR Through Coaches

3:25 D to Pwllehli from Birningham London and Manchester

 

4:00 D Cambrian Goods

 

5:18 A GWR Through Coaches

5:20 D to Pwllheli from Birmingham and London

 

6:25 A Cambrian Mixed from Barmouth Jcn

 

6:25 A GWR Through Coaches

6:35 D from Birkenhead

 

7:30 A Cambrian Pass & Mail

7:35 D GWR Passenger

 

8:00 D Light Engine to Penmaenpool

 

9:05 A Cambrian Passenger

 

9:10 A GWR Passenger

 

9:10 D Light Engine to Penmaenpool

 

9:20SOD Cambrian Passenger

 

Once I am satisfied that it is a reasonable representation of the services I can start working out how they will be handled on the layout which may not be a simple matter as I will need a fair degree of compression to fit it in. Trains will be a bit shorter than I would like.

 

As usual comments, contradictions, errors on my part you have spotted are all welcome.

 

Don

[Donw]

The Cambrian Tometables for 1904 are a triumph of optimism for example

page 10 Shows connection time from Liverpool, Manchester, Holyhead and Dublin

page 14 shows connection times from Berwick, Newcastle, Darlington, Scarborough, York, Leeds  and some stations between them

page 17 shows connections times from Inverness, Aberdeen, Glasgow, Edinborough and giving a choice of NBR CR (Caledoniam) or G&SWR

 

It would be an intrepid passenger to set of from Inverness to Pwllheli

catching the 11:10am at Inverness seem to depart Carlisle at 8:42pm, Crewe at 1:40am Whitcurch 2:25 Machynlleth 5:37 reaching Pwllheli at 10:20am a journey of over 23 hours. It is not clear how mnay changes there would be.

The journey can still be done today and seemingly rather quicker

10:45 Inverness 23:32 Pwllheli 3 changes £182 single.

 

One of the reasons for showing all these connections is due to the fact in 1904 there was no radio no TV so the timetables were a means of reaching out and advertising. The book also contains pages of adverts from Hotels and businesses in Wales hoping to pick up custom. I am rather tempted by Spiers and Pond limited offereing Luncheon Baskets Hot or Cold (Wines Beers, Areated waters etc. extra)  from various stations at 2/6 (12.5p in new money) and you are respectfully requested to give your order to the Guard as soon as possible.

 

I am of course hoping for plenty of travellers arriving at Dolgelley to stay at the Angel Hotel a porter meet every train. Unfortunately the will be little room for the town on my model and visitor will have to make do with the backscene.

 

Don

[The Stationmaster]

GWR Service TT June 1891, Up train times at Dolgelly

 

07.00 Light engine from Penmaenpool

07.45 depart, Passenger train to Ruabon

08.25 arrive, Cambrian passenger train (probably from the south as first time shown is Barmouth Jcn

10.25 arrive, Cambrian passenger train, 09,50 ex Barmouth

10.30 depart, Passenger train to Ruabon

12.53 arrive, Cambrian passenger train (as 08.25 arrival)

13.20 depart, Goods to Corwen (assistant engine if required - see Down train notes)

13.35 arrive, Cambrian Goods (traffic may connect with the GWR 13.20 departure if the Cambrian train arrives in time.  If the Cambrian train does not arrive in time the 21.00 Bala - Dolgelly goods is to run - a complicated series of connection and trains running or cancelled results east of Bala Jcn!)

15.25 arrive, Cambrian passenger train ex Barmouth

15.40 depart, Passenger trains to Ruabon

18.05 arrive,  Cambrian passenger train (Note as 08.25 arrival)

19.10 depart, Passenger train to Bala Jcn

19.30 arrive, Cambrian passenger train ex Barmouth

19.35 depart,  Mail to Ruabon

22.30 depart,  Goods - runs as required (refer 13.35 Goods departure)

 

PS  The GWR single line to the east was worked by Train Staff & Ticket 'with block instruments as an auxiliary'.

Edited November 10, 2014 by The Stationmaster

[Donw]

Thanks again Mike. Very interesting I have only glanced at it so far. I look forward to studying it.

Don

[Donw]

Very useful info Mike

 

The 12:55 arrival would probably be the 13:00 departure mentioned in the down trains as it may have needed assistance. This appears to be the 1:07a 1:10d by 1904. Which is shown as conveying through coaches from Pwllheli and Barmouth to Birmingham and London. It may be this train that has been identified as loading to 14 coaches at peak so even if some Cambrian coaches were dropped at Dolgelley it would still be quite a load for a small engine up the 1 in 50 north of Bontnewydd. Pre 1922 only yellow engines were permitted. I will not have room for 14 coaches ( or the 1 in 50 bank) so my Duke and Barnum (both in the to do list) will not be taxed.

 

Similarly the 10:25a10:30d may well be the equivalent of the 10:40a10:45d which carried through coaches to Birmingham and Manchester. Interestingly some Cambrian coaches worked alternate turns to Manchester with GW ones. Someting I wish to replicate.

 

The goods turns are strange why the Cambrian didn't arrive earlier is a bit of a mystery. Perhaps they wished to encourage traffic to go via Welshpool for a bigger share to the Cambrian.

 

More thoughts later

Don

[The Stationmaster]

Very useful info Mike

 

The 12:55 arrival would probably be the 13:00 departure mentioned in the down trains as it may have needed assistance. This appears to be the 1:07a 1:10d by 1904. Which is shown as conveying through coaches from Pwllheli and Barmouth to Birmingham and London. It may be this train that has been identified as loading to 14 coaches at peak so even if some Cambrian coaches were dropped at Dolgelley it would still be quite a load for a small engine up the 1 in 50 north of Bontnewydd. Pre 1922 only yellow engines were permitted. I will not have room for 14 coaches ( or the 1 in 50 bank) so my Duke and Barnum (both in the to do list) will not be taxed.

 

Similarly the 10:25a10:30d may well be the equivalent of the 10:40a10:45d which carried through coaches to Birmingham and Manchester. Interestingly some Cambrian coaches worked alternate turns to Manchester with GW ones. Someting I wish to replicate.

 

The goods turns are strange why the Cambrian didn't arrive earlier is a bit of a mystery. Perhaps they wished to encourage traffic to go via Welshpool for a bigger share to the Cambrian.

 

More thoughts later

Don

The goods  comments suggest to me that the Cambrian train due at 13,35 probably made, or connected out of a train that made, a lot of 'conditional' stops and was therefore likely to run early if there was nothing to/from those stops.  Covering up the connection if it didn't run early was quite a complex and potentially expensive business which meat the line shut for the night quite a bit later than usual.

[Donw]

Mike some more info on the goods according to the 1904 working time book it leaves Machylleth at 7:50am waits for 15mins at Dovey Jcn (no connecting goods) spends 1hr 20 mins at Aberdovey, 1hr at Towyn and 15mins at Llywngwril reaching Barmouth Jcn at 12:20 an up goods from Pwllheli should have arrived at Barmouth Jcn at 11:25 so I presume a lot depends on the work at Aberdovey and Towyn. The later down goods does spend much time shunting and the connection to Dolgelley  arrives there at 2:40pm.  I find it very interesting that there was a definite provision for the connections being missed you would think a bit of retiming would have solved that but I suppose it had to fit in with elsewhere.

Did you ever have much to do with timetabling. With timetables change one little bit and everything else can go haywire.

Don

[The Stationmaster]

Mike some more info on the goods according to the 1904 working time book it leaves Machylleth at 7:50am waits for 15mins at Dovey Jcn (no connecting goods) spends 1hr 20 mins at Aberdovey, 1hr at Towyn and 15mins at Llywngwril reaching Barmouth Jcn at 12:20 an up goods from Pwllheli should have arrived at Barmouth Jcn at 11:25 so I presume a lot depends on the work at Aberdovey and Towyn. The later down goods does spend much time shunting and the connection to Dolgelley  arrives there at 2:40pm.  I find it very interesting that there was a definite provision for the connections being missed you would think a bit of retiming would have solved that but I suppose it had to fit in with elsewhere.

Did you ever have much to do with timetabling. With timetables change one little bit and everything else can go haywire.

Don

It might be said Don that over the years I have had not a little to do with timetabling trying to make them work, sorting out the mess that others had made of them, producing them so that they not only worked but they would not need to much effort to make them work or create a mess that someone else would have to sort out, devising new methods of producing them and promulgating them to those who needed them in a way that made it better for everyone (rather proud of that one), writing emergency ones.  In fact in timetabling terms I think I've done most things over the years including, odd though it might sound, carrying out the first ever risk assessment (anywhere in the world ) of timetabling and the timetable development process, which was for a railway in Australia.

 

In fact arising from your question and looking back on my big railway career it looks like I spent a bit over a third of it with some sort of involvement in train planning (both freight and passenger) and infrastructure scheme development.  Plus then doing some more in post big railway days (hence Australia) although more of my time in that period was probably spent on infrastructure development and signal engineering things.  There are also a number of track layouts out there which I planned from scratch - quite a satisfying thing when you haven't got room for a layout at home

Edited November 11, 2014 by The Stationmaster

[Donw]

The goods  comments suggest to me that the Cambrian train due at 13,35 probably made, or connected out of a train that made, a lot of 'conditional' stops and was therefore likely to run early if there was nothing to/from those stops.  Covering up the connection if it didn't run early was quite a complex and potentially expensive business which meat the line shut for the night quite a bit later than usual.

 

Mike it was that comment of yours that made me ask. I would imagine all railwaymen are well aware of problems when a train runs late. I suspect not many have had to try working out how to fit it all together. The phrasing in that comment suggest you had been both sides of the fence.

 

Planning operations on a model is slightly different. You have no concern about meeting connections but do have to think hard as to how a small fiddle yard can represent the rest of the system. I have identified some problem areas.

The three through trains run three up first then the three down so I need to have room to store at least three trains at both the Cambrian and GWR ends that would mean using the up trains to act later as the down trains. The coaches for Barmouth could work back but are unlikely to do so from Pwllheli. 

There will also need to be a considerable ammount of compression. I make the length of Dolgelley around 2000ft which would need 14m in 0 I have about half that. Ideally there needs to be room for a train in the loop by the ticket platform, in the station platforms and in the goods yard run round, plus space for turnouts and headshunts. I am hoping for a least 4 coaches rather short but doesn't look too bad behind a 4-4-0. If I use 4 or 6 wheelers for local trains I should retain the difference in appearance.

The goods timings do give me a problem and may have not been that convenient on the original. I would assume the GWR would have shunted the yard and prepared a train of those vehicles from Dolgelley to go. Plus any from the later Cambrain goods the previous day. This train would need to be held somewhere while the Cambrain goods arrives not long before the GWR train is due to leave. So part of the Cambrian train has to be detached and added to the GW one which needs to be away on time. Proabably not easy full size but on a compressed model might be fraught.

 

I can well imagine that for you digging up the info for me, builds up a picture of the traffic and you are either thinking ' I'm glad I haven't got to work that station then' or half relishing the thought of giving it a go.

Don 

[The Stationmaster]

Some simple potential answers to some of your problems I think Don.

 

Firstly the 'tidal' working of the through passenger trains (or are they just through coaches - the latter sounds potentially more likely?) suggests to me a good reason for using cassettes although I realise that might not be a simple task in 7mil.  the same could be said for freight traffic unless you are happy to ignore the same wagons appearing frequently going in opposite directions.  

 

In fact as far as freight is concerned it might be worth trying to establish traffic levels - if only by looking at any photos you can find.  Making a guess the Cambrian must have obtained its loco coal from somewhere and finding the answer to that could rule in, or rule out, certain routes for that stuff as could bottoming the routes used for domestic coal.  that apart there can't have been very much originating goods traffic off the Cambrian to go via Dolgelly and Ruabon but there were probably empties going back to the industrial north west.  That I realise is some considerable digging but it might help.

[Donw]

I did ask Mike Lloyd if he had any useful knowledge on what went down that way, but he couldn't help much. I have some Vauxhall wagons (Slaters) so I shall assume some traffic from there. I also have some Pwllheli Granite Co wagons who also had quarries elsewhere. Plus a number of Cambrian low sided wagons which could be used for slate traffic. I know the bulk probably went via the LNWR or the GWR from Ffestiniog but I shall assume some. Photos of freights in that period seem rare. I am assuming there would be a fair amount of agricultural traffic to and from Delgelly itself. I presume light engineering products would come via the GWR from Birmingham routeing that way rather than via Welshpool.

On the coaching side the do seem to be trains of largely GWR coaches going through to Barmouth. There is a photo in Greens book of a Nasmyth Wilson 04-4t with a severn coach train for Ruabon c 1918 although  cannot make out the coaches. It is possible that some trains from Ruabon continued to Barmouth  whether or not they were carrying Through coaches from elsewhere but finding clear proof is not easy.

I have not seen any reference as to where the Cambrian obtained loco coal. They could have obtained decent welsh coal from the valleys via Brecon and the Wye Valley line. However it wouldn't surprise me to find in those days some of it could have been unloaded from ships. I am a member of the WRRC so I may write up a bit on my layout for their journal in the hope that it elicits comments from others.

As you say some digging is needed.

Don

[The Stationmaster]

I have a colour picture of a train crossing Barmouth viaduct - clearly very early from the signal and what can be seen of the train itself (which isn't much) the picture being produced by one of the early colour processes.  The rear coach could be in GWR livery but of course I don't know which way the train would be turning at Barmouth Junction!

[Donw]

I have a colour picture of a train crossing Barmouth viaduct - clearly very early from the signal and what can be seen of the train itself (which isn't much) the picture being produced by one of the early colour processes.  The rear coach could be in GWR livery but of course I don't know which way the train would be turning at Barmouth Junction!

 

Indeed Mike the GWR had through coaches to Barmouth via Dolgelly and Welshpool The LNWR ran them to Portmadoc via Welshpool and Afon Wen. I do wonder how many passengers went the wrong way. I have found a second photo of an 0-4-4t with a train of GW stock taking the tablet at Barmouth Jcn and there is a reference in Kidner's book to Cambrian coaches working to London to balance GWR stock on the Ruabon to Barmouth Service. I presume from GW point of view if it meant their stock working through to Barmouth it would be worthwhile as the bulk of the receipts went to them. You may be able to date your picture by the Bridge as the original cock and draw bridge was replaced in 1900.

Don

[The Stationmaster]

Indeed Mike the GWR had through coaches to Barmouth via Dolgelly and Welshpool The LNWR ran them to Portmadoc via Welshpool and Afon Wen. I do wonder how many passengers went the wrong way. I have found a second photo of an 0-4-4t with a train of GW stock taking the tablet at Barmouth Jcn and there is a reference in Kidner's book to Cambrian coaches working to London to balance GWR stock on the Ruabon to Barmouth Service. I presume from GW point of view if it meant their stock working through to Barmouth it would be worthwhile as the bulk of the receipts went to them. You may be able to date your picture by the Bridge as the original cock and draw bridge was replaced in 1900.

Don

Very definitely pre-1900 Don - in fact the process by which the picture was made puts it much earlier (assuming I've got the right process in mind).

[Donw]

Mike I couldn't find the jealous button.

Don

[ChrisN]

Don,

In Christiansen & Miller Vol 2 it states that slate traffic was shipped from Aberdovey, and coal for local delivery was mined in Wrexham.

[Donw]

Interesting info Chris. Possibly the slate came from the Corris railway and would be transhipped at Machynlleth to  be taken to Aberdovey. The slate from the Tal-yLlyn might have been shipped from there too. I hadn't given thought to any collierys around Wrexham.

Don

[ChrisN]

Don,

There is talk of timber traffic as well.  The same book says the Rheidol and the W&L carried it, and has a picture of the W&L   The 'New History' mentions the number of timber wagons but I have not, I think seen a picture.  The timber was transported out of Wales to the industrial areas of England for house building.

 

The W&L picture shows two 4 wheel flat trucks with the timber, basically whole trunks, slung between them.

[Donw]

Chris Dragon models do a kit of the Cambrian bolster wagon I have some. So I will include a bit of timber traffic.  I think it is available in 4mm too.

Don

[ChrisN]

Don,

The Cambrian had less goods traffic than passengers but this sort of traffic is different and so therefore makes it all the more interesting.

[Donw]

HAving got some idea of the services which ran I am now thinking about the track plan. The space is considerably less than would be needed for a scale model so will be rather compressed. Studying the traffic we found two factors which affect the layout. The first is the use of a ticket platform which means the  top part of the loop must be large enough to hold a train. In model form how would a ticket platform affect operations. As far as I can see the train would stop at the ticket platform while the ticket collector moved through the whole train. Surely this would have taken a long time. Then the train would pull forward to the station proper. Do I replicate this on a model or would the operators be twiddling their thumbs while an imaginary man collected the tickets? However one other possiblilty occurs a change of engine may take place on a through train that could be done while the tickets are collected rather than in the platform.

 

The second factor is the extra crossover at the Cambrain end. I can see this would make handling the goods easier. It could also be useful for engine changing but  it does increase the length and probably shorten the length of goos sidings.

 

I was hoping for a 4 coach train so if I allow 6ft for the legth of the train plus extra for the loco that should be sufficient. so  I assume two lengths of 6ft, ticket platform and real platform plus three turnouts  takes about 17ft plus the extra crossover into the yard  which  cramps the goods yard considering there is only a 23ft6in length and I need the main line to curve round the end. So it looks like the yard whill need some changes.

 

The other thing is according to the timetable there are times when there are consectcutive departures in one direction, or there could be GWR and Cambrian trains in the station when a through train comes through. There is one long siding which also includes access to the turntable. I believe this was used to hold GWR coaches. Full sze it was quite long but will not be so on the model. Full size may well have held two trains one would be the maximum on the model. There is still the question of where spare Cambrian stock would be held. With a shortened yard the would not be room in there.

It is possible that some trains from Ruabon worked through to Barmouth but this was not felt to warrant inclusion in the list of through carriages. What photos I have found do not identify the working so you cannot tell whether it is through carriages or just the Ruabon train working through.

On top of this I have yet to work out the engine movements. One sneaky way of adding extra engine movements is the add an extra loco to a scheduled train just to work one to or from Dolgelley. Against this there was an embargo on two engines coupled together working on the coast line although a dispensation was given to a royal train. I think the Cambrian was unconcerned about using a banker on passenger trains but I think the GWR preferred to pilot passenger trains.

 

The problems have not put me off. I accept the model will be a compromise but from the info which has been unearthed Dolgelley in those days would have been a pretty busy place and not easy to work. As stationmaster said the GWr were probably very glad to take over and avoid all the engine changeing. As a model though it should make for interesting operating sessions on a fairly modest layout.

 

I will draw up a draft plan for comments.

 

Don