RMweb Gold Donw Posted January 15, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 15, 2015 Rich did you connect yours up to a locking frame? Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Thanks, have you connected yours up electrically to power the Point Frog? In a roundabout way: The microswitches are wired into a pair of wall warts to give a split rail power supply to Cobalt motors. The auxiliaries on these switch the crossing. Rich did you connect yours up to a locking frame? Don Not yet. I have all the bits for a locking frame. The layout has been packed up since before we move house. It's moving into the garage soon and I hope to get it out again to remember where I had got up to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 (edited) In a roundabout way: The microswitches are wired into a pair of wall warts to give a split rail power supply to Cobalt motors. The auxiliaries on these switch the crossing. Not yet. I have all the bits for a locking frame. The layout has been packed up since before we move house. It's moving into the garage soon and I hope to get it out again to remember where I had got up to. Not to clear just what you mean there Rich, I'm not great at electronics, if its a switch I can buy then if you have a picture or part No, then I will be o.k., I'm waiting for a reply from Scalefour on the same subject. Cheers. EDIT = Its O.K. Rich, Scalefour have given me the Maplins part No. N97AQ. Edited January 15, 2015 by Andrew P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Not to clear just what you mean there Rich, I'm not great at electronics, if its a switch I can buy then if you have a picture or part No, then I will be o.k., I'm waiting for a reply from Scalefour on the same subject. Cheers. How are you connecting the lever frame to the toe of the switch - are you using point motors or mechanical linkage? I am using a point motor so the connection is electrical. There is only space for one micro-switch per lever in the S4 frame so I wired the motors as per p10 of the installation guide here The power supplies were lifted from battery chargers that Maplins were selling off. The micro-switches were of the size recommended from the instructions for the lever frame and came from RS. Off the top of my head I cannot recall the part number or size with any certainty and the way the frame is installed I cannot easily access them to check what they are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 How are you connecting the lever frame to the toe of the switch - are you using point motors or mechanical linkage? I am using a point motor so the connection is electrical. There is only space for one micro-switch per lever in the S4 frame so I wired the motors as per p10 of the installation guide here The power supplies were lifted from battery chargers that Maplins were selling off. The micro-switches were of the size recommended from the instructions for the lever frame and came from RS. Off the top of my head I cannot recall the part number or size with any certainty and the way the frame is installed I cannot easily access them to check what they are. Thanks Rich, (and apologies to Don for invading your thread) I have Traintronic TT300 Point Motors, (same as Cobolt but smaller) slow motion and with loads of terminals including the important Frog ones. I cant seem to open your link though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Not to clear just what you mean there Rich, I'm not great at electronics, if its a switch I can buy then if you have a picture or part No, then I will be o.k., I'm waiting for a reply from Scalefour on the same subject. Cheers. EDIT = Its O.K. Rich, Scalefour have given me the Maplins part No. N97AQ. miniature-microswitch-with-roller.jpg Their instructions (download link from that page) list squires part no MSR500. I check RS but Maplin is not much more expensive in this case and may well have a store near you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Thanks Rich, (and apologies to Don for invading your thread) I have Traintronic TT300 Point Motors, (same as Cobolt but smaller) slow motion and with loads of terminals including the important Frog ones. I cant seem to open your link though. Are they any good? I've noticed some problems with the Cobalt ones already and I've barely used them! The link is to a pdf file, which most browsers should just open if you have Acrobat Reader or other similar pdf reading software installed (it might ask your permission to run/open the file). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Are they any good? I've noticed some problems with the Cobalt ones already and I've barely used them! The link is to a pdf file, which most browsers should just open if you have Acrobat Reader or other similar pdf reading software installed (it might ask your permission to run/open the file). No it just goes into a internet explorer not working shuts down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted January 15, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 15, 2015 No need to apologise the subject is very relevant to using a frame whether it incorporates locking or not. The link works for me Gives the instructions for the Scalfour frame. I could send it to you if you want. There is now a new version of the cobalt but many suppliers are still selling the older ones. The new ones can take a wider range of voltages the info seems to suggest that using more than 9v on the old ones can be a problem. I have some of the old ones to try as they need less depth than the Tortoise. Don 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 No need to apologise the subject is very relevant to using a frame whether it incorporates locking or not. The link works for me Gives the instructions for the Scalfour frame. I could send it to you if you want. There is now a new version of the cobalt but many suppliers are still selling the older ones. The new ones can take a wider range of voltages the info seems to suggest that using more than 9v on the old ones can be a problem. I have some of the old ones to try as they need less depth than the Tortoise. Don I bought mine quite some time ago now. It sounds as if I bought them for exactly the same reason that you did - the smaller package size. I hadn't planned to use motors for the switch operation and hadn't left enough space even then: one of my issues is that I butchered some of them to even get them to fit and in these locations they are severely 'built in' to the baseboard! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted January 16, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2015 I bought mine quite some time ago now. It sounds as if I bought them for exactly the same reason that you did - the smaller package size. I hadn't planned to use motors for the switch operation and hadn't left enough space even then: one of my issues is that I butchered some of them to even get them to fit and in these locations they are severely 'built in' to the baseboard! It is a bit of a problem. Servo's are a bit smaller but you dont get any changover contacts and you need to find somewhere for the control board. Micro Minx may be your answer rich as the operating bit is very small but you do need a control board ( two operating units to one control board). I have come to the conclusion that I will not have room for any of them on my 2mm Micro layout. I think the Tortoise is definitely the best if only it was smaller. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Micro Minx may be your answer The control box is pretty bulky and you need one for every two drives. I bought a couple for the signals but haven't done anything with those yet either, other than open the box they were sent in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted January 19, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 19, 2015 The control box is pretty bulky and you need one for every two drives. I bought a couple for the signals but haven't done anything with those yet either, other than open the box they were sent in. That is my objection too. Especially for 2mm the operating bit would be fine but finding room under the baseboard for all the control boards would be difficult. I think GF controls have come up with a control board for 8 servos to operate signals. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 No need to apologise the subject is very relevant to using a frame whether it incorporates locking or not. The link works for me Gives the instructions for the Scalfour frame. I could send it to you if you want. There is now a new version of the cobalt but many suppliers are still selling the older ones. The new ones can take a wider range of voltages the info seems to suggest that using more than 9v on the old ones can be a problem. I have some of the old ones to try as they need less depth than the Tortoise. Don Hi Don, sorry for missing this the other day, yes please if you could send it to me, that would be great. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted January 19, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 19, 2015 Hi Don, sorry for missing this the other day, yes please if you could send it to me, that would be great. Andy email sent. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew P Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Andy email sent. Don Thanks Don received and opened fine. Frightened me rigid and so I closed it again and will have a look again later in the week. Looks like it still needs lots to do to make it work. Cheers for the E-mail Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted January 19, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 19, 2015 Andy I would suggest a row of simple switches to get you running then consider buiding the frame fitting the micros switches then it just a matter of changing over the wires. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted January 25, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 25, 2015 I have been at the Bristol 0 gauge show today. Collected a lot of timber sleepers and turnout strip plus a base for a 1:7 double slip the later will help with laying it out. HAve to finish the baeboards first. Also had a bit of a chat with Bob Harper about working lever frames. One comment from him was that if you and interlocking the lever needs to be reasonably robust otherwise it could be distorted if someone tries to throw it over against the interlocking. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted January 27, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 27, 2015 Quote: Actually in 1904 the GWR was using Spangnoletti instuments at Dolgelley as far as I can tell and were charging the Cambrian for one in their box. However I was hoping the general style of the furniture etc. would be ok. Besides who would know the difference Not that you have confessed to Spangnoletti instruments, we shall be expecting to see them accurately modelled as there are experts on here who will know the difference! Well they will need to send me a decent picture for a start. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 28, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 28, 2015 Well they will need to send me a decent picture for a start. Don Might take a while Don - first of all I've got a lot of setting up to do on the newly repaired Mac (only back in use about 20 minutes ago!) and secondly l shall have to dig my Spagnoletti block instrument out of its hiding place and set it up for some pics (then get the pics onto the Mac - which is not yet feasible until much setting-up is finished). Just remind me nearer the time you need the info, oh and I'll also have to set up a transformer if you want working pictures of course (plus have it apart to suss out the wiring although I doubt it's much more difficult than wiring a 1947 GWR block instrument. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted January 28, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 28, 2015 Might take a while Don - first of all I've got a lot of setting up to do on the newly repaired Mac (only back in use about 20 minutes ago!) and secondly l shall have to dig my Spagnoletti block instrument out of its hiding place and set it up for some pics (then get the pics onto the Mac - which is not yet feasible until much setting-up is finished). Just remind me nearer the time you need the info, oh and I'll also have to set up a transformer if you want working pictures of course (plus have it apart to suss out the wiring although I doubt it's much more difficult than wiring a 1947 GWR block instrument. I should have known you might have one stashed away. I doubt I shall make a working model. Part of me feels it would be nice to have 'proper instruments and go the whole hog. But my experience shows that there is not a lot of enthusiasm for using block bells and finding willing operators would be a problem. If running things myself I can work all the levers on both boxes but sending bell codes etc. to myself might be a bit too far (especially if I am answering them). I will work out some way to give the authority to cross from one box to another on the up and down lines. Anyway it will be sometime before I get to build the boxes. So perhaps if you come across it and take a snap then I would appreciate it. Don 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 28, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 28, 2015 I should have known you might have one stashed away. I doubt I shall make a working model. Part of me feels it would be nice to have 'proper instruments and go the whole hog. But my experience shows that there is not a lot of enthusiasm for using block bells and finding willing operators would be a problem. If running things myself I can work all the levers on both boxes but sending bell codes etc. to myself might be a bit too far (especially if I am answering them). I will work out some way to give the authority to cross from one box to another on the up and down lines. Anyway it will be sometime before I get to build the boxes. So perhaps if you come across it and take a snap then I would appreciate it. Don Working Spagnoletti instruments could prove very 'interesting' as they were operated by keys - no rotating commutator for Mr S. And to keep the key in place a piece of bent wire (technical description) had to be slid sideways across the top of the key. But very reliable devices so I'm told and some lasted a very long time. Mine, which I acquired in the late 1970s is in fact as near to brand new as makes little difference having seemingly spent most of its life sitting on a stores shelf as a spare - i won't upset anyone by telling you how much it cost me. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted January 28, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 28, 2015 Very nice Mike. I have thought about building my own block instruments and have some centre normal moving coil meters somewhere. I think building the layout comes first. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Donw Posted January 28, 2015 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 28, 2015 Mike regarding your comment on NtoB the Spagnoletti instrument was used for the double line virtual section between the East and West Boxes as far as I can tell. I think the Cambrian was using Tylers between the West Box and Penmaempool. Not sure what the GWR was using between the East Box and Bont newydd. Interesting thought if they sent a train entering section it could be outside the next box before the end of the train was out of section from the first! Don 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 29, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 29, 2015 Mike, Is that a Spagnoletti instrument shown on Plate 130 A pictorial record of GW signalling- Vaughan - OPC? Yes Paul (possibly not the earliest pattern but the only style I have seen). You can see the two keys quite clearly - one is used to turn the instrument to 'Train On Line' and the other to turn it to 'Line Clear' There was also a repeater version for use at level crossings (Wylye was I think the last in use) and possibly a non-pegging version but I'm not certain of that. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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