Liquid flux and where to get it?

[kevingsydney]

DCC Concepts

[micknich2003]

I bought Jenolite a few months back, it still contains Phosphric Acid, and now comes in Paste form, but didn't work too well as a flux, there are obviously other additives.

[ozzyo]

Hello all,

 

as the OP has not bothered about saying thank you to any one, why help him?

 

OzzyO.

I was having a bit of a bad day.

 

But it less than 72 hours, and the member is new - give him a break.

The member had been on line (8/12/13 at 17;36) before I posted the message above. Not that new joined on 20/1/13, a low number of posts.

 

To be fair, he did say 'Thanks in advance', which is more than many do

Quite. And as was pointed out he has thanked members for their replies in advance. There are many reasons, such as work or family commitments, which might preclude a member being available on here 24/7.

To be fair he did thank people in advance..

 

Sorry if I offended anybody, but as I mentioned in my first post I was having a bad day. Note to oneself don't post on the web if your having an off day.

 

OzzyO.

[ozzyo]

Ebay is a good place to look just put in liquid flux, or soldering flux.

 

OzzyO.

[halfwit]

Gaugemaster also make two types of flux, if you're lucky enough to have a local modelshop that stock G/master products they might sell it, or at least be able to order it in.

 

As for why answer, the O.P. was polite and the answers could help others.

[Richard Lee]

This thread pushed me to ordering some, and some low-melt solder.    Up to now I have glued white-metal kits of horse-drawn vehicles, but I might try soldering the next one.  If that, and the resin 4-wheel coach kits that I am doing arn't too bad, I might think about doing a proper, rolling-stock or locomotive white-metal kit some time.

[JeffP]

Ozzy: here's another tip from me: don't post if you've had a few drinks...it got me banned off here first time round.

 

I now count a hundred and ten before responding......

[ozzyo]

I was just having a bad day  I can only say sorry so many times.

 

I'M SORRY IT WAS A BAD DAY.

 

Today is not that much better, having had the red stuff dripping out of my nose for the last few hours. The last time this happened I was in dock for three days.

 

I will always try to help anyone, but I was court off guard.

 

I'M SORRY.

 

OzzyO.

[JeffP]

Hope you are better tomorrow.

Not blood-pressure related is it? If so, the doctor's would be good.

[peter220950]

This thread pushed me to ordering some, and some low-melt solder.    Up to now I have glued white-metal kits of horse-drawn vehicles, but I might try soldering the next one.  If that, and the resin 4-wheel coach kits that I am doing arn't too bad, I might think about doing a proper, rolling-stock or locomotive white-metal kit some time.

 

 

I used to be quite scared of soldering whitemetal, and indeed ended up with many heaps of molten metal until I chanced by Andy Duncan demonstrating at one of the exhibitions, he made it look easy, and using the right materials it is. - If you happen to be anywhere he has a stand drop by and let him demonstrate it to you, it's well worth a few minutes of your time.

[Bluemonkey presents....]

Thank you to one and all for your responses (some on good days some on bad days). I did look at a few posts whilst trying to research the stuff in my local area, obviously this takes time and sometimes the long a thread is open the more expansive the posts are.

Again thank you everyone hopefully I will get some soon but I have since found out Royal Mail have prohibited sending such liquids and courier costs will make the item too expensive so will have to wait for a sizeable order from somewhere as there is none in my local area.

[halfwit]

I bought my last bottle of flux from Eileen's (usual disclaimer) earlier this year by post with no problems, it would be worth contacting them to check that this is still the case.

[Richard Lee]

I used to be quite scared of soldering whitemetal, and indeed ended up with many heaps of molten metal until I chanced by Andy Duncan demonstrating at one of the exhibitions, he made it look easy, and using the right materials it is. - If you happen to be anywhere he has a stand drop by and let him demonstrate it to you, it's well worth a few minutes of your time.

 

Thank you for that advice.  I would love to see an expert demonstate white metal soldering; it is a skill that I would love to aquire.  However, I am an expatriate, and only visit Britain once or twice per year.

[Gruffalo]

Tony Wright's DVD series includes kit building an SEFinecast white metal bodied GWR prairie tank with an etched brass chassis. I bought it and learnt a lot from it. You can order the DVD or download the content from Activity Media.

I have no commercial links, I just thought it was a worthwhile purchase for me.

[Sandy Harper]

<p>Try this stuff:<a href="http://www.7mmlocomotives.co.uk//index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=1&category_id=1&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=52">http://www.7mmlocomotives.co.uk//index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=1&category_id=1&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=52</a></p>

<p> </p>

<p> </p>

<p>Low acidity, doesn't splatter, doesn't turn Nickel Silver instantly green, won't rust steel tyres on sight, but does an excellent job, with the minimum of EASY cleaning up afterwards.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>I've been using it for a while now for both brass and whitemetal.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Oh, and here's a tip: buy some blu-Tak, roll out a suasage, wrap round the base of your flux bottle and press down onto bench. It's FAR less likely to get tipped over.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Or tranfer some into a smaller, squatter bottle and do the same.</p>

Is this the stuff marketed as 'Safety Flux' and is a nice blue colour?

 

If it is, be prepared to be absolutely scrupulous in your cleaning up as it rusts steel like there is no tomorrow.

 

I tried it, and although it was a good flux, I was not prepared to constantly clean the rust and tarnish of my tools, so I have reverted  to my 'Copalux' paste. Excellent flux and no rust or green mould!!!

 

Sandy

[JeffP]

It is...and I've not experienced any problems with rusting, even though the tools are in a normally un-heated loft.

 

Mind, I DO keep any tools, wheels, kit parts etc etc scrupulously clear from my soldering area! I have had stuff spattered in the past by different fluxes, with the results you indicate.

[M Wright]

Hi, being a cheap skate and doing a very large amout of whitemetal soldering in my business I have always used 10% (roughly) phosphoric acid.  The phosphoric acid  is Kurust gel from Halfords ( I regard this as 100% phosphoric acid for the purposes of dilution, (before  anybody tells me I know it is not, but I like to keep things simple)  It does not cause rusting of tools and any residues are easily washed off.  For your Health and Safety wear eye protection and use surgical gloves  when working to protect your hands.  I wear glasses but not gloves since my hands are long past ever looking good.  Phosphoric acid at these low dilutions is not too dangerous on the skin, just wash off any splashes. Dilute Kurust gel is very cheap and causes very high penetration into the joint by the solder.  For nickel silver or brass work I use  solder paint with a RSU. when using a  small solder iron I use Powerflo or any other self cleaning flux from the plumber's merchant.  The latter fluxes will quickly damage your iron's bit and need very good cleaning from the job.  Powerflo (yellow tub) in particular whilst being a super flux will rust everything within a foot and and little spots on tools will be rust the next day.  I have used most of Carrs products. They are all excellent in use BUT the childproof bottles are a pain to open without splashing yourself and being very light dont last long on the bench before getting knocked over.  So if you use them make a heavy wood block to fit the bottle in to try to minimise the risk, and also the expense of a spill.  Cheap brushes for flux- Ikea in the kids section usually has a good selection,  Remember some of the brush ferrules are Aluminium that can react quickly with some fluxes and in doing so reduce their activity.

[Coombe Barton]

Has anyone used pH Down hydroponics product for a source of phosphoric acid? just one sample of many - http://www.growell.co.uk/hydroponic-ph-up-down.html

[Coombe Barton]

And when you do a DIY on flux, do you use tap water, boiled water, de-ionised water or distilled water?

[M Wright]

Hi, again. I live in NE Scotland our tap water is about pH6.5 ie soft water very slightly acid so I use that as the solvent.  If you can be bothered good sources of "distilled" water are, condensate from the tumble drier or de-humidifier, melted ice from the top (to avoid dead spilt frozen peas etc) of a freezer,  If you ever need to dilute solder paint any tap water is a bad idea, it seems to quickly destroy the properties of the inbuilt flux.  So that always gets distilled water. Regards 

[JeffP]

And if you need to BUY DI water, buy from a motor factors, NOT a supermarket, (where it's often scented) or Halfords.

[jazz]

Hi. I've been thinking about water based/fume free soldering flux for brass/nickle silver. I have no experience of these products.

 

So does anyone know if they are as good as, say, Carrs fluxes and if so which and where to obtain same.

 

Thanking you in advance. Ken (PS I use 60/40, 125 and 75 solder. Only using the rosin cored 60/40 mainly on the electrical connections.)

[Kenton]

I use Carr's Red for white metal and low melt (75) solder

 

I use either Carr's Red or Green for brass and N-S and 145,188, or 212 solder.

 

Do not use multicore for brass N-S the residue is very difficult to remove. Keep it for electrical.

 

You can substitute 5-10% phosphoric acid or 3-5% citric acid (as home made fluxes)

 

But these are all corrosive fluxes and you must wash the evaporated acid residue off your work regularly after each session and at least daily. If you leave the work for extended periods and certainly prior to painting neutralise with a dilute bicarb solution as well as washing.

 

If you use solder creams, the residue is particularly difficult to remove (often requires scraping or abrasives) but it is neutral and doesn't attack the brass.

 

These days I use solder creams more than not as they allow the smallest amount of solder to be applied, but even so I frequently flood with Carr's Red - the creams are great for RSU use but for the standard join I like the solder to flash as fast as possible.

Edited December 18, 2013 by Kenton

[brossard]

Well, Ken, I found some water soluble paste flux in my local hardware store.  I've been using it for a couple of months and I'm very impressed.  For years I used phosphoric acid based fluxes (Carr's) and you probably know they are very irritating when they fume.

 

 

I have found it works on 145 and 188.  It also works on 60/40, so I don't have to use messy sticky rosin flux.  It also works on 70C.  It doesn't corrode and my joints stay shiny.  Cleanup is easy too.  This is a North American product but I daresay there are similar in the UK.

 

Now, in other discussions on soldering folk have said that paste flux leaves a residue.  I think they must be talking about petroleum based flux (but stand to be corrected).  I've tried this and it does work on all the solders I listed above but it does leave a greasy residue.

 

My impetus for this is the restrictions on posting "hazardous" material.

 

John

[Kenton]

Don't we have to remember that flux has a purpose in the soldering process much more than simply to enable the solder to flow. That purpose is chemical cleaning of the molecular interface brass and solder alloy. It should come as no surprise that the best fluxes also attack the metal and are corrosive.

 

I have never found the standard water based fluxes a problem in terms of fuming - use in a well ventilated area.