The Furness Valley Railroad

[chaz]

I wanted a hexagonal cone roof for the water tank, so I made a quick model using cereal box card….

 

My first step was to make a flat hexagon. I drew a circle with the same diameter as the tank body and after deciding on a suitable degree of overlap drew out the hexagonal base piece. (Everybody knows how to draw a hexagon on a circle using compasses to divide the circumference into six, don’t they?)

 

 

I tried it out on top of the tank and compared the look with drawings and photos of real tanks. The six equilateral triangles have sides 63mm long. To make a hexagonal cone that will sit on this hexagon I made the “spokes” (think of the circle as a wheel) longer. I guessed that 68mm might answer. 

To make the cone I drew a circle with a radius of 68mm and then divided up the circumference with the compasses set to 63mm. 

 

 

This leaves a smaller triangle highlighted in the photo above with the red arrow. This is useful as a glueing flap. 

 

 

I lightly scored and folded the card and glued the flap, pulling the shape into a cone. Putting it on top of the hexagonal base, on the tank, it looks good. However just to be sure and to see what a difference it made I cut a second cone with the “spokes” set to 71mm.

 

 

Comparing this one with drawings and photos of real tanks I judged it too steep.

 

I think I may well use cereal box card for the model, although it’s thin it’s strong. Thicker card might well prove too difficult to fold to a nicely pointed cone. I could stiffen it with some triangular ribs set vertically on the base hexagon but as the panels will have shingles glued on, and these can be added before it is folded into a cone, they might well prevent any sagging.

 

Chaz

[shortliner]

I wanted a hexagonal cone roof for the water tank, so I made a quick model using cereal box card….

 

My first step was to make a flat hexagon. I drew a circle with the same diameter as the tank body and after deciding on a suitable degree of overlap drew out the hexagonal base piece. (Everybody knows how to draw a hexagon on a circle using compasses to divide the circumference into six, don’t they?)

 

P1080283.jpg

 

I tried it out on top of the tank and compared the look with drawings and photos of real tanks. The six equilateral triangles have sides 63mm long. To make a hexagonal cone that will sit on this hexagon I made the “spokes” (think of the circle as a wheel) longer. I guessed that 68mm might answer. 

To make the cone I drew a circle with a radius of 68mm and then divided up the circumference with the compasses set to 63mm. 

 

P1080282.jpg

 

This leaves a smaller triangle highlighted in the photo above with the red arrow. This is useful as a glueing flap. 

 

P1080287.jpg

 

I lightly scored and folded the card and glued the flap, pulling the shape into a cone. Putting it on top of the hexagonal base, on the tank, it looks good. However just to be sure and to see what a difference it made I cut a second cone with the “spokes” set to 71mm.

 

P1080288.jpg

 

Comparing this one with drawings and photos of real tanks I judged it too steep.

 

I think I may well use cereal box card for the model, although it’s thin it’s strong. Thicker card might well prove too difficult to fold to a nicely pointed cone. I could stiffen it with some triangular ribs set vertically on the base hexagon but as the panels will have shingles glued on, and these can be added before it is folded into a cone, they might well prevent any sagging.

 

Chaz

 

Chaz - so you don't get a "lump" where the flap is, try cutting the flap off and use tape on the underside to fix it edge to edge - then run milliput down to seal any gape at the join

[chaz]

Chaz - so you don't get a "lump" where the flap is, try cutting the flap off and use tape on the underside to fix it edge to edge - then run milliput down to seal any gape at the join

 

 

I'm ahead of you! The one in the photos is only a test piece - the actual model (already made) has a separate flap glued to the underside of both sides of the joint (does a similar job to your tape suggestion). As to Milliput, it won't be needed as there will be a ridge piece over each joint overlapping the shingles.

I will post a snap when the roof is complete.

 

Chaz

[shortliner]

Sorry - I'm obviously teaching Granny to suck eggs!  

[chaz]

Sorry - I'm obviously teaching Granny to suck eggs!  

 

 

This granny always welcomes advice although hates the taste of eggs!

[chaz]

I made the trip to Guildex at Telford today and bought a number of weathering potions, so I'm hoping for more good effects on the stock. 

[chaz]

A roof for the water tank 2

 

I decided to use shingles to surface the roof. My first step was to make a second card cone and separate the pieces. I marked the short side of these six triangles with an arrow; the short side being only 6mm shorter than the other two, it would easy to confuse them.

 

 

I already had a packet of Evergreen 12” cedar shingles - these would do fine. The first step in applying the shingles is to fix a spacer piece along the bottom edge. The shingles are self-adhesive - all you have to do is peel the backing and a very sticky glue is revealed. The spacer strips can be seen on the piece of a shingles sheet.

 

 

I stained the shingles with Indian ink diluted with IPA, aiming for a variety of colours. It’s pretty essential to cut the strip to length before removing the backing - the glue grips really well to anything it touches.

 

 

 

I found I must only handle the strips by the edges once the backing is off. They will stick tenaciously to finger or thumb and are very difficult to remove without damage (see below).

 

 

I drew pencil guide lines as the instructions suggest. I found the best way to align a strip was to allow the adhesive on one end to grab and then adjust the position before smoothing down the rest of the strip.

 

 

A silhouetted close-up showing why it’s so easy to damage the shingle strips. The cedar they are cut from is very thin and the narrow links are easily torn apart whilst try to unstick them from your thumb! However it's not a disaster if a link is broken you just butt the two pieces together as you set them in place. The links are hidden as each new layer is added.

 

 

I carried on applying the strips, cut long enough to overlap the card shape on each side. I was able to use the cut off pieces higher up the triangle, so there wasn't too much waste.

 

 

All the lines of shingles in place on one of the triangles. I am happy to tolerate a slight unevenness in the alignment.

 

 

Turning the card over I trimmed the overlap from the two long sides. The overlap at the bottom is intentional and will be kept.

 

 

All six faces with shingles applied - not a quick job as so much care is needed. The face nearest the camera has the inspection hatch (modelled with strips of scrap ply left over from the engine house kit) which gave access to the inside of the tank.

 

 

I glued the six faces to the hexagonal cone with PVA. I represented flashing over the joints using grey paper also secured with PVA. To make the crease along these strips I score the paper lightly and form the bend before I cut the strips to width. Forming a crease in strips this narrow is virtually impossible. On the left is the roof’s base - mounting card with strips of balsa section glued along the edges on the underside.

 

I leave you to speculate what the plastic bead - purloined from Sue’s nick-nack box - is for. All will be revealed later!

 

Chaz

 

 

Edited September 3, 2018 by chaz

[chaz]

Propped up on a steel block which is probably not the right height....

 

 

Still a lot of work to do but encouraging. 

[chaz]

A decision has been made...

 

 

I collected all my enamel paint cans and jars into a box. It may well be that many of these pots have no usable paint in them - just a solid slab of dried out colour - but I really can't get excited about the job of opening them all up to see. However I am not quite ready to throw these out so they will be stored away. If after a year or so I haven't had cause to go to the box then they will be disposed of.

 

I have converted all my painting to acrylics and I need the paint cupboard for my rapidly growing collection. 

 

Chaz

[chaz]

Sometimes I think airbrushes are the devil's own.  

 

After working faultlessly yesterday, spraying AK's "Worn Effects" and Vallejo black, today I have spent a couple of frustrating hours getting the da**ed thing to work.  Despite giving a good blast through with soapy water at the end of yesterday's session this morning it stuttered and blocked with the same black acrylic and required a strip down and several squirts of airbrush cleaner on the parts and into the various orifices before it would even spray water.   

 

I have gone back to brush painting for much of my modelling. Anybody else got experience of using chipping fluids? Do they clog airbrushes (they spray like water)? Can they be brush painted? Would it better to end a spraying session with a blast of IPA rather than water?

 

Chaz

[chaz]

I have started a topic in the painting and weathering section of the forum to cover some weathering projects. The first one will be a detailed look at the Bachmann hopper cars so if you would like to have a look.....follow the link.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/137349-some-weathering-projects/?p=3293321

 

Chaz

[chaz]

 

Making a start on the supporting timberwork for the water tank with plastic! I made a jig to assemble the basic frames with some Plastruct square tube glued to a piece of HIP.

 

 

A dry run to test the jig.

 

 

I applied PVA to both ends of the two uprights and assembled the frame in the jig. I made sure the timbers were pushed down (that’s the blade of an engineer’s square).

 

 

The two smaller frames now ready to be cross-braced - no jig needed for this. 

 

Two advantages of a jig - it makes the assembly easier and both frames should match. The advantage of using plastic is that PVA does not bond properly so any excess squeezing out of a joint will not cause damage to the jig or the work. Should the work stick to the jig it can be released by carefully inserting a blade between until the PVA comes away from the plastic.

 

Chaz

[chaz]

A jig for the two larger bents which will go under the water tank.

 

 

 

Chaz

[chaz]

 

The four support frames for the water tank ready for the next step.

 

 

In the middle of the structure there was often a frost-box/pump room. I made up a card box strengthened at the corners by square section wood. I painted the box to match the strips of 0.6mm ply’ which I had cut and painted. This will stop the planking being spoilt by the white of the card showing through the gaps.

 

 

I cut the pre-painted strips and glued them to the frost box with PVA. I used an engineer’s square to make sure that the strips stayed parallel.

 

 

The finished frost box, nearly ready to glue into the structure. A few boards will need trimming. The vertical planking is on the hatch which would give access to the pump and stove. A single coat of Tamiya red/brown has left the paint patchy - which I rather like. it allows the wood grain to show a little.

 

 

Next I glued the two larger frames to the frost box. Notice the cunning way in which the frames members marked bottom are at the top.    

 

 

X bracing is being added to the ends of the frames - don’t forget that when the water tank is full it would be a considerable weight which has to be strongly supported. 

 

Chaz

Edited September 18, 2018 by chaz

[Sandhole]

I came to your thread after the photobummer fiasco!!!

The skill and patience you display in your buildings is incredible!!! I think 'Works of Art' comes to mind!!!

Speaking as a cardboard, brickpaper and occaisionally, Plasticard building man, with wood being used as a strengthener, your stuff is an inspiration!!!

Could I ask a favour?

Could you post the odd shot of the locomotives of the line?

The weathering of the wagons is superb, but I am boring, with an American narrow gauge soft spot!!!!

                                                         Chris.

[chaz]

I came to your thread after the photobummer fiasco!!!

The skill and patience you display in your buildings is incredible!!! I think 'Works of Art' comes to mind!!!

Speaking as a cardboard, brickpaper and occaisionally, Plasticard building man, with wood being used as a strengthener, your stuff is an inspiration!!!

Could I ask a favour?

Could you post the odd shot of the locomotives of the line?

The weathering of the wagons is superb, but I am boring, with an American narrow gauge soft spot!!!!

                                                         Chris.

 

 

Thanks for the encouraging comments Chris. I do like card, wood and thin ply' for my scratch-built buildings - as they say "nothing looks more like wood than....". I avoid Plasticard - in fact the only structure on the line that is plastic is the girder bridge - a modified Kibri kit.

 

At the moment all of my locomotives with one exception are RTR (mostly Bachmann) On30, straight out of the box. Any pictures I posted would just duplicate the catalogue shots. I do plan to post pictures of the locos but not until I have weathered and in some cases modified or detailed them.

 

Chaz

[chaz]

I think the next bit of the water tank, assembling the timber support work, is easier if it’s done upside down. There should be a parallel row of cross timbers on top of the supporting structure on which the tank itself sits. I cut these timbers and laid them out first.

Here's how...

 

 

I marked up a square of thin card (cereal box) with a circle of the same diameter as the tank. I drew a second circle with a radius 1.5mm bigger around this as the cross timbers should project slightly beyond the bottom of the tank. I also drew an arc for two timbers which need to be longer to support some timber work for the spout etc.

 

 

I put five strips of double-sided tape onto the card to hold down the timbers. In the snap above those two longer timbers are laid either side of a temporary spacer. 

 

 

Using the larger of the two circles as a guide the cross timbers are firmed down onto the sticky tape, with spacers between each one. You can see that I cut the spacers so that they were not as deep as the timbers. You can also see the spots of PVA ready for the centre two support frames to be added. You will remember that these two frames have been glued either side of the frost box and are thus a single sub-assembly.

 

 

Here the sub-assembly has been positioned on the cross timbers. A scrap piece of thick ply’ spreads the weight, keeping up a good contact while the glue dries. The spacers, being thinner, should not fixed by the glue and can be removed later.

 

 

The last job today, once the centre frames were secure was to add the two outer frames. These were also glued to the cross timbers and weights were added to keep the glue joints compressed while they set. Lifting the weights slightly off the outer frames allowed me to adjust them until they were parallel to the inner frames and vertical. 

 

 

Chaz

[chaz]

This morning I glued in the last four timbers.

 

 

These brace the smaller, outer support frames (bents?). They certainly make this maze of timber look the part, well up to the job of supporting several thousand gallons of water.

 

A pause is needed to let the PVA in these joints dry and while it does I will consider how I am going to animate the spout.

 

Chaz

[chaz]

Turning the tank support the right way up I did a quick check that the glue in the joints of the timbers added this morning had dried.

 

 

Yes, it had - so it’s time to remove the cereal box card. I didn’t think trying to get it off all at once was a good idea - the tape might pull a joint or two apart.

 

 

Slicing through the card on the centre line of a spacer timber with a scalpel…

 

 

…allows a strip of card and some of the double-sided sellotape to be carefully peeled away. The spacer timber can be lifted out.

 

 

Slicing through the card on the centre lines of all the spacer timbers seemed a good idea - easier to do this whilst the majority of the card is intact.

 

 

As each strip of card is peeled away the spacer timber can be eased out.

 

 

Success - with little or no adhesive from the tape left behind to clean away.

 

 

I tried the tank on the top. Still a lot of work to do but I am very pleased with the way it’s coming together.

 

————————————————————-

 

Three photographs of the tank in position on the layout (I just had to do this - even though it's far from finished - wouldn't you?).

 

 

Because the layout of Dixon is rather cramped it has to be positioned there and in any case it looks good. Engines will stop on the turntable lead to fill their tenders. 

 

 

I find it much more satisfying scratch-building a model like this than I would assembling a kit. That is not to dismiss kits - they are a valuable resource and certainly save time. I think I will have a go at making a spout and the various parts to go with it and finding a way to animate it. 

 

 

Doesn’t this tank epitomise an American railroad in steam days?

 

Chaz

Edited September 19, 2018 by chaz

[chaz]

Can someone knowledgable comment please?

 

Was the spout on a water tank invariably of the tapered pattern? Did they ever have a plain parallel-sided pipe as a spout, with just a downturned end?

 

Chaz

[chaz]

Can someone knowledgable comment please?

 

Was the spout on a water tank invariably of the tapered pattern? Did they ever have a plain parallel-sided pipe as a spout, with just a downturned end?

 

Chaz

 

 

OK - had an email from a friend who says "Yes, always tapered. Railroads got the spouts from engineering companies to a standard design."

[Jeff Smith]

Interesting, I googled something like Steam Depot Water Towers and got several pictures with parallel spouts but they may not have been from the US.

 

The rigid spout idea is interesting. From what I gather it is really just a closed trough. The tank end is just an open top to receive the water from a fixed pipe. The spout can presumably swing from side to side to accommodate differing tank locos/tenders.

[chaz]

Interesting, I googled something like Steam Depot Water Towers and got several pictures with parallel spouts but they may not have been from the US.

 

The rigid spout idea is interesting. From what I gather it is really just a closed trough. The tank end is just an open top to receive the water from a fixed pipe. The spout can presumably swing from side to side to accommodate differing tank locos/tenders.

 

 

I have to say that all the pictures I have seen of water tanks on US railroads do show a tapered spout with a downturned end. So even if there were examples with parallel ones they would certainly not be typical. Although Rule One can always be invoked and I can decide just how the FVRR did things I have decided to fit a tapered spout. The tank is so typical of US practice it would be a pity to spoil the look for such a small detail.

 

Chaz

[Jeff Smith]

Agreed, have you found one yet?

 

A bit expensive but, http://www.locopainter.com/store/subcategory.php?subcatid=52

Edited September 24, 2018 by Jeff Smith

[chaz]

Agreed, have you found one yet?

 

A bit expensive but, http://www.locopainter.com/store/subcategory.php?subcatid=52

 

 

No, but that one looks the most likely Jeff. I have emailed Wiseman to ask if they will supply to me in the UK. Their catalogue includes some very nice detail stuff which I might well add to any order I send them.