Branch line terminus - keeping it interesting ?

[ThePurplePrimer]

Thanks to other forum users I now know what the term BLT means and like many before me realise that this style of layout has a lot to offer in not much space

 

As someone who has never owned a layout before I do have one concern though - how to you keep it interesting - how to you operate it in a way that makes you want to keep playing with it ?

 

So imagine I have a 6 foot scenic terminus layout that is fed by a 3 foot long fiddle yard, how would I operate that in a way that would keep me coming back to want to operate ( read play ) with it on a regular basis

 

I love the articles on here showing how people build these fantastic layout but what happens once it's done ?

[Oldddudders]

Thanks to other forum users I now know what the term BLT means and like many before me realise that this style of layout has a lot to offer in not much space

 

As someone who has never owned a layout before I do have one concern though - how to you keep it interesting - how to you operate it in a way that makes you want to keep playing with it ?

 

So imagine I have a 6 foot scenic terminus layout that is fed by a 3 foot long fiddle yard, how would I operate that in a way that would keep me coming back to want to operate ( read play ) with it on a regular basis

 

I love the articles on here showing how people build these fantastic layout but what happens once it's done ?

I don't think there is any single answer to that.

 

People build BLTs for a number of reasons :

 

They haven't much space, having a modern, smallish home and a family that expects to share it.

 

They aren't rich - see above.

 

They fancy exhibiting their work - you may be able to get a BLT, suitably sectioned at the design stage, into a car.

 

They fancy finishing it! Plenty of layouts never do get anywhere near finished, so starting out with a modest challenge may be a better spec for doing so.

 

If you have any other calls on your time - job, family, other pursuits - you may be amazed at how long a layout takes to get to the finished state - and some will tell you a layout never is finished, anyway. Then those same calls on your time may just stop you spending endless hours operating it. Boredom with a finished layout is a stage some modellers only dream of....

[Andy Y]

I'm not advocating getting you to turn into some kind of fantasist Rob but it may be worth considering the reason for the station and its facilities being there. Most stations were built for a reason (gaining revenue for the railway) so it's worth considering what traffic can generate that revenue whilst being profitable (unlikely to see a passenger working every 10 minutes) and where the rest of the world represented by the 3' fiddle yard actually is. You can then determine what workings the railway would run and the traffic/stock that may be seen.

 

Don't just think of making the model; think about going beyond buying boxes and how you can give some individuality to that layout with kit-built or scratchbuilt stock for specific workings, even just repainting a PO wagon for a local coal merchant etc. Playing with the model probably won't keep you happy but modelling that world probably will.

[gazmanjack]

You can always use the methods of play akin with the Time Saver or Inglenook Sidings layouts. This would certainly make it interesting...! See here for Time Saver : http://www.wymann.info/ShuntingPuzzles/Timesaver/timesaver-rules.html and here for Inglenook : http://www.wymann.info/ShuntingPuzzles/Inglenook/inglenook-rules.html

 

Each train movement would be different every time a mixed goods arrived at the terminus in using the rules or similar rules to the links above. To spice things up, you could have a terminating passenger/DMU come into the platform, which may negate all the shunting opportunities available.

 

Cheers, Gary.

[Pete 75C]

I love the articles on here showing how people build these fantastic layout but what happens once it's done ?

 

I'm in the "build the next one" camp. On reflection, I get more from building a layout than I do from operating one. Maybe I have a short attention span, but I find I can hold onto a "roundy" layout longer than an "end to end". With a roundy, I can sit back, relax and watch the trains go by when the mood takes me. With an end-to-end, you always have to be doing something and that does not appeal to me all of the time. Pete.

 

Edit: Although this sounds contradictory to the above, I do actually enjoy building a BLT more than a roundy. Strange.

[Friar Tuck]

In real life, most BLTs were (and still are) unbelievably boring places. Raising the level of interest without making things grossly unrealistic is challenging, to say the least.

 

One way of adding to the interest in a BLT is to get away from out-of-the box locos and rolling stock. By careful choice of prototype, you can build unusual stock to add considerably to the interest.

[HillsideDepot]

A very valid question, to which several have already given good answers.

 

Another answer is that a BLT need not be a bucolic country back water, CJ Freezer's famous 'Minories' plan in its various forms was an urban BLT designed to support an intensive service where a train will arrive, a fresh loco will come from the sidings to take it out before the incoming loco is released after the train departs and it retreats to the siding to take over the next train. I have a layout which is inspired by the Minories idea (although in my case its part of a larger station rather than a BLT) and it can happily keep two operators busy for a weekend at an exhibition.

 

Arguably too, an urban BLT with lots of buildings surrounding the railway is more challenging to build than a rural one where the station my have fields on at least one side and therefore has a long life as it takes longer to build.
 

And as others have said, you have great opportunity to make each item of rolling stock an individual model in itself. True, some people do amazing things with huge fleets of stock, but a two or three coach train lends itself to detail work much more easily. I know the OP asked "when it's finished", but I suppose what I am saying is "finished" can be at a different level on a smaller layout.

 

I do enjoy building layouts, but I also enjoy operating them. Maybe my career as a transport scheduler is a big influence, but I am now deeply into working out Trip Diagrams and wagon workings for one of my layouts (a sort of freight only BLT, if you like) and am taking lots of time working out when I need to trip certain wagons so that they get back to the main yard in time for the connecting freights to their destinations based on old Working Time Tables. Some would say it is an unnecessary diversion from modelling, to me its as important as any aspect of the model itself. Its not just a random selection of wagons running for no purpose, but I know where the wagon has come from, including which yards its been shunted at, what it is conveying and who the customer is. And when the research is done, and I am operating the layout at home I will be quite happy to shunt a bit, sit and stare, shunt a bit more, run the Trip, shunt what it brings, sit and stare and so on. Maybe its the train-spotter in me, but sitting and waiting for something to happen is fine.

 

But for others the first time they run a complete train through reasonably finished scenery is the time they pick up the saw and start cutting the next batch of 2 x 1.  

 

[pointstaken]

"Hintock" and "Westerham" both appeal to me, because as BLT's they may not have a tremendous amount of traffic, but the real appeal is creating the believable scenery and structures. Ventnor would appeal to me for the same reason. All three as well have appealing track plans as well.

 

(And yes I will admit to being on the "Dark side" - a GP50 or a Mallet steamer wouldn't quite fit the image !)

 

Dennis

[MartinWales]

I'm not advocating getting you to turn into some kind of fantasist Rob but it may be worth considering the reason for the station and its facilities being there. Most stations were built for a reason (gaining revenue for the railway) so it's worth considering what traffic can generate that revenue whilst being profitable (unlikely to see a passenger working every 10 minutes) and where the rest of the world represented by the 3' fiddle yard actually is. You can then determine what workings the railway would run and the traffic/stock that may be seen.

 

Don't just think of making the model; think about going beyond buying boxes and how you can give some individuality to that layout with kit-built or scratchbuilt stock for specific workings, even just repainting a PO wagon for a local coal merchant etc. Playing with the model probably won't keep you happy but modelling that world probably will.

Sound advice from Andy there Rob-Why not take a particular location that you may have in mind OR a specific loco and build it that way around a premise instead of the usual 'I liked it so I bought it and now am trying to find an excuse to run it' so often found on these pages and threads. I hate to blow my own trumpet normally but check out my 'Kinmundy' thread and it will give you an example-I always try and establish a background history wherever possible to make the layout more belivlable and also have a sense of location.

[Kenton]

 

but what happens once it's done ?

Many will say that no layout is ever finished - some even reach a point much earlier in the layout life cycle when there becomes some practical or mental block on progress to that end point. A point in time when the layout can be said to be 'finished with' rather than finished.

 

What usually happens at that point can be either storage (if there is space) or a form of cannibalism where parts are removed, even down to the basic boards, and a new phoenix is risen from the ashes. Some are simply serial starters - a vision, a plan, baseboards, track laying, raw operation (testing), the attention to scenicing and a new vision takes over. Or so it is for me.

 

But then many would say it is the journey getting there which is the pleasure of the hobby rather than the arrival - a bit like a train journey I guess.

[idlemarvel]

There are other aspects you can add to make a simple layout more interesting.  For example adding working signalling, quite a lot of that in a BLT.  Automation / computer control is another whole area that can easily absorb you, at least in the design and execution.  Then depending on the time you have available you can watch the trains while doing something else (like you can with a "roundy") or you can automate part and drive parts of it yourself.   There's an old adage which I think came from the micro layout arena - any layout is better than no layout!  Don't be put off, if that's all the space you've got, go for it! :-)

[ThePurplePrimer]

Thanks for all the great replies guys

 

There are some points there that were already on my radar ( especially a layout with an inglenook in it - which my current favorite plan does )

 

There are also some points raised that I don't think I had really considered as helping me maintain interest over a longer period of time and I now feel a little bit more convinced that I could get some long term enjoyment from the project.

 

Ian made some points that almost exactly describe the reasons why I feel a BLT might suit my needs.

 

I do have a dedicated room which is of course nice but it's not without its limitations and is only 10' long on the longest wall and has some issues with height at the walls themselves but the center is full head height, it's a newly finished loft room ( actually the end of it partioned off ) that is plasterboarded, plastered,painted, has electrics, lights,  fully insulated and floored so I don't feel it is fair to moan about my location overly.

 

As someone who has never really had railways much on their radar until about 18 months ago I am shocked by how fascinated I am becoming about the whole topic. I have always been a keen modeler and have been interested in technical and mechanical things. 

 

Model railways really do tick a lot of boxes for me it seems. I can model, I can do practical and historical research and there is an element of collecting involved. I hope this last point means collecting specific models I have mainly built or modified/detailed.

 

I am surprising myself in regards to how interested I am also becoming in some aspects of railways such as signalling and various procedures and the rules surrounding them. There is almost limitless fun to be had isn't there.

 

With all that said I have a limited space, a limited budget and most certainly a limited amount of time available and I am starting late I guess to model railways ( 50 this year ) so I need to learn fast and make as few mistakes as I can along the way. ( this place will clearly be a huge help with that )

 

This is why I am keen to decide on some realistic limitations and try to work out clearly as I can ( based on so little experience ) where I want to end up. I am happy to put the effort  in to get to an end result providing I have a reasonable expectation of getting enjoyment out of in the longer term.

 

Phew - sorry I think I rambled a bit there

[t-b-g]

I just enjoy making things and the idea of finishing a project and not having another one in the pipeline is a bit alien to me.

 

So I have (either my own or joint projects with friends) around 10 layouts. Three or four are work in progress and of those that are finished, the ones that are set up are based at other locations. I have a few BLT layouts that are finished but are stored and come out for occasional exhibitions.

 

A BLT is a lovely practical project to build but there are very few people who would be satisfied with such a layout as a long term project and expect it to maintain interest over a long period of time.

 

As Andy says, thinking about the station, why it was built and what traffic it is there for is a good starting point. Perhaps a sequence or timetable can help. Many an exhibitoion layout tends to run "passenger arrives, runs round departs" "goods arrives, shunts departs" "passenger arrives, runs round departs" but if you think about the design and operational possibilities you can do a lot more. Perhaps the most enjoyable BLT I have operated is Leighton Buzzard by Peter Denny. It has a simple sequence of around 16 moves that takes about an hour but it still gives a good sense of satisfaction to work through it with as small a number of mistakes as possible.

 

Some trains do just arrive, run round and depart but it gets quite interesting when the passenger and goods trains are there at the same time and most of the passenger trains have vans/horseboxes that are attached or detached.

 

Then maybe starting off with RTR stock and then replacing or supplementing the stock with kits or even some scratchbuilding would help prolong the shelf life of the project.

 

But you will probably find that once you get the layout building bug you will feel that you want to be on with the next one before too long!

 

Tony

[ThePurplePrimer]

I'm not advocating getting you to turn into some kind of fantasist Rob but it may be worth considering the reason for the station and its facilities being there. Most stations were built for a reason (gaining revenue for the railway) so it's worth considering what traffic can generate that revenue whilst being profitable (unlikely to see a passenger working every 10 minutes) and where the rest of the world represented by the 3' fiddle yard actually is. You can then determine what workings the railway would run and the traffic/stock that may be seen.

 

Don't just think of making the model; think about going beyond buying boxes and how you can give some individuality to that layout with kit-built or scratchbuilt stock for specific workings, even just repainting a PO wagon for a local coal merchant etc. Playing with the model probably won't keep you happy but modelling that world probably will.

 

Thanks Andy for the suggestion

 

I am keen to avoid a real location to model but I want it to seem entirely plausible so what you suggest makes a lot of sense and I think having a back story really will make sense of what is included in the model and then how i operate it.

[ThePurplePrimer]

This is the plan i have in mind so far

 

I am thinking of Southern Railways - the entire period between 1923 and 1947 

 

The red 'main' line in to the platform ( on my plan ) is electrified with 3rd rail - nothing else is. My passenger trains ( 2 coaches only ) will be both steam hauled and a 2-Bil

 

 

 

 

I could go even for a mix of semaphore and coloured lights maybe?

 

This to me has some historical progression and modelling interest

 

Steam and electric with the odd visit from one of those 3 diesel SR shunters to my inglenook. 

Showing the start of electric adoption and modelling a third rail ( peco bits ) 

Showing the adoption of electric light signals and showing what was before with the semaphores - would intend working ground signals too ( no idea how yet )

 

I get 2 shades of green for locos and black too 

I can get a few pre grouping wagons to show where the SR 'came' from

 

To me it seems I can potentially cram a lot of historical and technical (1:1) interest in a small space

[t-b-g]

This is the plan i have in mind so far

 

I am thinking of Southern Railways - the entire period between 1923 and 1947 

 

The red 'main' line in to the platform ( on my plan ) is electrified with 3rd rail - nothing else is. My passenger trains ( 2 coaches only ) will be both steam hauled and a 2-Bil

 

bockingford.jpg

 

 

I could go even for a mix of semaphore and coloured lights maybe?

 

This to me has some historical progression and modelling interest

 

Steam and electric with the odd visit form one of those 3 diesel SR shunters to my inglenook. 

Showing the start of electric adoption and modelling a third rail ( peco bits ) 

Showing the adoption of electric light signals and showing what was before with the semaphores - would intend working ground signals too ( no idea how yet )

 

I get 2 shades of green for locos and black too 

I can get a few pre grouping wagons to show where the SR 'came' from

 

To me it seems I can potentially cram a lot of historical and technical (1:1) interest in a small space

 

That is a very nicely thought out plan and makes good use of the space. There are actually a number of similarities with Leighton Buzzard so I can see that with a bit of thought to a sequence that could be very enjoyable to operate.

 

Nice one!

 

Tony

[PaulRhB]

Few more ideas to add the suggestions below,

Having a general goods siding that various different local merchants use can involve pulling out some wagons that are now loaded or emptied and replacing with others to be unloaded. Allows you to change the vehicles meeting the train too.

 

Have a unloading ramp for military traffic, Wool had no other indication apart from a steel ramp that it served the War Dept, (facilities don't need to be sophisticated or even permanent parts of the layout)

 

Change era or location, swapping a couple of buildings or items that specify for others designed to fit the same footprint. As long as the rest of the scenery is typical of either period or location. At the end of the day though at home who knows what you're doing

[ThePurplePrimer]

One thing I like about the design so far is that the inglenook would be interrupted by any passenger train that needed to use the runaround loop.

 

It seems to me that could be fun ( and I hope prototypical ) from an operating and signalling point of view

[ThePurplePrimer]

I like the idea of creating a schedule / timetable but my current lack of knowledge makes that tricky to say the least

 

My small industry that I currently have as a paper mill adds a purpose to that long siding and allows me to model a gated private siding that I will show as a little overgrown. They will need raw materials inwards and ship finished products out

 

The other sidings could act for any sorts of general goods that will allow me an excuse for a decent collection of wagons - the type of wagons could suggest industries / companies that would require and influx of passengers then maybe

 

I imagine my emu will be coming from a distant destination and the steam hauled passenger locos from more local areas

 

Like I said - my lack of knowledge of real railways isn't helping

[PaulRhB]

It wasn't unusual for the shunting to be paused while a passenger service was in, the goods crew would adjourn to the pub to wait, something you could recreate by having a drink

Varying the service for an annual event locally would also allow you to bring in a longer passenger train that might be split by a shunting loco that had tripped down specially. Swanage had regular summer Saturday services that required a shunter to release the train engine and move part of the train to the sidings so the loco could run round the front half and up the line out if the way while the shunter dropped the rear half back on from the sidings.

Post your ideas for operation and I'm sure there will be examples from the prototype that will support many of them

In steam days a domestic coal yard and goods shed were common, something like a provender store by Ratio can be served by all sorts if vans and opens.

[Coombe Barton]

Can you (or anyone) drag up a working timetable for a branch of the style you want - then work out the movements that are going to be required? May be more interesting than you think.

[maunsel]

The main draw back to the 'umble BLT is that not much happened on the prototype. So when

we model a BLT we tend to operate them more intensely than those in real life were. This isn't

always a problem, but it helps if one has a justification for all that 'extra' traffic.

 

If you model the inter war years, then two obvious types of traffic are building supplies in order

to build the 'homes fit for heroes' and hats.

 

Hats? You may ask. Yes. Hats. Almost everybody wore hats, and a lot came in bulky hat boxes,

and they arrived by the van load. Take a look at photos of the parcels depots of the time and 

you'll see cartloads of hat boxes.

 

The other simple point is that rural land was cheaper and in more ready supply than urban land.

So an urban BLT often looks better in a smaller space than a rural one. Plus a well placed bridge

or canopy misleads the eye into thinking the layout is bigger than it actually is. For example, why

model an entire platform when you only need one end of it.

 

As for inspiration take a look at the photos on line at the Nation Railway Museum website, or that

of the London Transport Museum.

 

 

Good luck!

 

Eric

[Izzy]

For some added inspiration you might like to take a look at the small inner town terminus in Colchester, originally called St Botolphs and now Colchester town. It might give you a few more ideas that you can use as some elements are similar to the plan you are developing and could give ideas for traffic flows etc.

 

This was the first terminus of the Walton/Clacton branch and features a double track approach from a double track triangular junction with the main branch to a single platform. That's all that is left now in common with many other stations, although it is electrified, but in the past it had extensive goods facilities, a carriage siding with a works siding off it, (behind the platform), and at various times had considerable army traffic as it's next to the Army Garrison.

 

Although through services to London have never regularly called there all local stopping services do. Sudbury line services used to start there, a few still do, as did all those for the Brightlingsea branch. So quite an intensive service at times, with every train, even those just 'calling' having to reverse.

 

Often it's your imagination that is the key element here. Deciding how much of the rest of the world exists past the exit from your station, how it's located in relation to it, and what bit of it you want your station and it's services to go to and come from.

 

Izzy

[Chimer]

A few hopefully helpful comments ...... The "playability" will be enhanced (imho) by identifying roles (cattle, coal, general goods etc) for the sidings in the inglenook so each wagon on an arriving freight has to end up in a specific place. 6 more inches width would allow the sidings to spread out a bit, to allow for a goods shed with road access.  And others will know better than me, but the "engine shed" looks a bit oddly located and inaccessible.  That said, it basically looks pretty good to me. 

 

As a first go, I have a 6' x 5' unsceniced roundy-roundy with a 3 siding goods yard - my operating fun comes from shunting, rolling a dice and dealing cards to determine how many and which wagons in which order will depart with the train that has just arrived, marshalling accordingly and getting the ones being dropped off in the right places.  Everything else is a learning experience (soldering, electrics, card kits etc) pending obtaining planning permission for the last great layout ,,,,,,,, and I started (re-started) at 60 not 50, so you've got lots of time!

 

Best of luck!!

[ThePurplePrimer]

I actually see this in my current minds eye as somewhere 'a bit like swanage' kind of greenish ( but run down scrubby in my case ) on one side and more built up on the other ( station ) side.

 

So far I imagine a wall on the far side of my platform with a small street behind it and some half relief shops behind that - I feel the shops will help date the scene even with no railway stock present 

 

I especially fancy modelling a short retaining wall somewhere