SR 4Lav EMU

[KeithHC]

Well done may have to have ago. Would like to model somewhere on the Brighton line. Lived next door to it for the first twenty years of my life. Now all that is needed is a PAN PUL and a COR.........

 

Keith

[SRman]

I. too, lived next to the Brighton line, in Pound Hill (the opposite side of the line to Three Bridges) for some years (not as long as Keith, though). I also have happy memories of BILs, HALs, LAVs, PULs and PANs (plus the BELs although I never rode on those). Of all of those, I always considered the LAVs as being the ugliest, with their flattened, narrow van sections and narrow cab fronts. Inside them was a different matter; I remember even as an 8 year old admiring the polished wood in the LAVs and BILs in particular.

I am loving this model build and look forward to seeing the finished unit.

[Gwiwer]

Another former resident of LAV territory here. They were rare on the Sussex coast where BIL and HAL units reigned supreme on locals and London trains were in the process of losing PUL / PAN units in favour of brand new CIG / BIG types. We got 4COR / BUF / GRI units on the City business trains and 6COR units were far from unknown. But LAVs - no. Unless something was awry with roliing stock diagrams or the London stoppers were diverted. There were one or two diagrammed LAV turns probably for traction knowledge and usually very early morning or late at night.

 

LAV units were distinctive with their narrow cab and brake sections; you knew that wasn't a 2BIL coming towards you. I found them all to be equally comfortable however.

 

You could sometimes be fooled into thinking a LAV unit was approaching when it wasn't. At that time pairs of 1925 driving cars were converted into de-icing units and these also had the narrow body back to the brake. They were often coupled at the rear of a service train; I saw them working with BIL and HAL units many times. Did they also run coupled to LAV units on service trains?

[Kubes]

I don't suppose anyone has a decent drawing or picture of the compartment sliding doors on the TCL?

Kubes

[Kelly]

Looks rather nice Ian. With the re-emergence of the Kirk parts I am tempted to do one. I've been looking at the various parts and wondering what EMUs could be derived from the coaches/emus in the Kirk range offered by Pheonix Paints.

 

Obviously theres the BIL and HAL options (with the branchlines conversion/detail kits still available). Others (of course your 4LAV)?

[Colin parks]

Hi Ian,

 

That is an epic piece of work on the 4 LAV!

 

You have shown the Kirk 2BIL kit to be very versatile indeed. Any thoughts on glazing?  There are an awful lot of windows in such a unit.

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[5Bel]

Hi All,

 

Thanks for all the replies. I have looked at converting further units, the intermediate cars on the Cor/Pul/Pan shouldn't be too difficult. The Motor Cars will take a bit of doing though. The Pul may be able to be done with open second sides and a bit of scratch building. The Cor and Pan would be a bit more taxing. Colin, I have flush gazed a Kirk 2Bil in the past and if my sanity can take it I may flush glaze this one! Depends how I feel after all that roof detailing. Depending on how this unit goes I may have a go at a 1925 driving car, the flatish sides will aid scratchbuilding. The next EMU I am working on is a BR design 4Epb with Bulleid trailers, these will be converted from ExKirk Bulleid sides. I need to order some bits for the detailing of the Lav so progress may slow a little.

 

Cheers for now, Ian 

[The Bigbee Line]

I used to spend Saturdays at Brighton station in the mid 60's.  Wish I'd been able to afford colour film.  People don't realise how lucky they are today with phones that can snap hundreds of pictures in an afternoon.

 

At the time it was BIL, LAV, HAL, BEL units with the modern units just appearing.  I don't remember PUL and PAN units, but that's not to say they weren't running.

 

A couple of memories are:

 

Looking in the cab of a modern unit, the AWS sunflower had not been installed, just a piece of cardboard filling the hole.  Someone had put on an arrow and the comment ' meter'

 

Another drivers comment was that the acceleration of a LAV improved over 60mph as that's the speed that the woodworm jumped out...

[talisman56]

Another drivers comment was that the acceleration of a LAV improved over 60mph as that's the speed that the woodworm jumped out...

 

I lived near Haywards Heath, and started spotting in the mid-60s. First-hand experience of travelling in 4LAVs revealed them to be at times very comfortable, at times bone-shakers, and the acceleration improvement started at 50mph, according to the drivers I spoke to...

 

The most popular seats were in the Corridor Composite ('cos that's where the two Lavs were), so it paid to get to the departure platform at Victoria/LB/Brighton early (especially for an 'all-stopper'!)

Edited November 6, 2017 by talisman56

[Enterprisingwestern]

I saw most of my 4LAV's within 10 miles of my house, a bit strange that was as I lived in Sheffield, the rest I had to travel 150 miles to see!

 

Mike.

[Brian Kirby]

Hi Ian,

    Your 4LAV is looking good, you are further ahead than me! In the same way, I had a couple of redundant Kirk 2BIL kits, and kept toying with the idea of re-inventing them as a 4LAV. Of the two kits, I obviously used all four roofs, but as you will have found, because of the cab domes, there isn't quite enough, so I did the centre trailer roofs in two halves, and made a start of filling the gaps. I used five out of the eight sides, mostly to make use of the compartment doors, although the fifth can be the one and only corridor side in the loo coach. The driving cars were re-jiggled with the now narrowed cab and van section.

     The next bit is where we diverge in method, I didn't have any more compartment sections, so I resorted to scratchbuilding three new sides and one spare compartment in plasticard, they all still require additional work, I haven't even built the two centre chassis yet. As Colin P helpfully pointed out, the Hornby 2BIL incorrectly comes with motor bogie frames at both ends, I corrected mine by substituting a Kirk long bogie on the driving trailer, which handily releases the surplus motor sideframe for this project. I've fitted the first to one LAV power car, the other still has a now incorrect Kirk bogie. Being 4-car, I was planning to fit Hornby Ringfields both ends, without traction tyres, but the whole project has been on the back burner for a while, i'll let you finish your's first!

                                                        Cheers, Brian.

 

 

[SRman]

Hi Ian,

    Your 4LAV is looking good, you are further ahead than me! In the same way, I had a couple of redundant Kirk 2BIL kits, and kept toying with the idea of re-inventing them as a 4LAV. Of the two kits, I obviously used all four roofs, but as you will have found, because of the cab domes, there isn't quite enough, so I did the centre trailer roofs in two halves, and made a start of filling the gaps. I used five out of the eight sides, mostly to make use of the compartment doors, although the fifth can be the one and only corridor side in the loo coach. The driving cars were re-jiggled with the now narrowed cab and van section.

     The next bit is where we diverge in method, I didn't have any more compartment sections, so I resorted to scratchbuilding three new sides and one spare compartment in plasticard, they all still require additional work, I haven't even built the two centre chassis yet. As Colin P helpfully pointed out, the Hornby 2BIL incorrectly comes with motor bogie frames at both ends, I corrected mine by substituting a Kirk long bogie on the driving trailer, which handily releases the surplus motor sideframe for this project. I've fitted the first to one LAV power car, the other still has a now incorrect Kirk bogie. Being 4-car, I was planning to fit Hornby Ringfields both ends, without traction tyres, but the whole project has been on the back burner for a while, i'll let you finish your's first!

                                                        Cheers, Brian.

 

20171106_231948.jpg

20171106_232051.jpg

 

Brian, would a relatively light and free-running 4-car unit really need two ringfield motor bogies? I would have thought that even without traction tyres the Hornby unit should be capable of handling the 4 LAV single-handedly. I'm thinking in terms of 1. saving you a little money, and 2. reducing any potential problems with the motor bogies fighting each other and causing derailments of the centre coaches.

 

Incidentally, yours looks good too.

Edited November 7, 2017 by SRman

[Brian Kirby]

Hi SRman, 

     Two motor bogies might seem extravagant, but they are only ancient and cheap Ringfields removed from Hornby diesels, and after all, two motor bogies are prototypical. Generally, I find two moderately-weighted cars well within the capability of a single power bogie without traction tyres, three cars needs extra weight over the motor, four cars is troublesome and requires even more weight. If you were building a six-car unit, you'd almost certainly put two motor bogies in, so four-car is somewhere in the middle of the equation? Isn't Bachmann's forthcoming three-car Class 117 dmu listed as having two power bogies? What does Ian think?     BK 

[5Bel]

Hi All,

 

I haven't done a lot to the model for a bit due to work. It's an interesting point about motor bogies. I have powered my Blacksmith 4Sub with a single rewheeled old style 5pole Ringfield and that seems to cope OK. For the Lav I am using the new Hornby 2Bil bogie. These have enough power to move my powered/unpowered Bil formation around so should cope with the Lav. Brian, your 4Lav looks good. I didn't reuse the Bil sides because the Lavs have droplights in the doors and the new Kirk sides were really easy to chop about. I have reshaped and drilled the roof on one power car prior to fitting all the details and will post some photos tomorrow. 

 

Cheers for now, Ian

[5Bel]

Hi All,

 

As promised a few photos of the reshaped driving end. I have put it up against the other end for comparison. There is quite a lot of plastic to remove from the original roof dome as the profile of the Lav is much flatter than the Bil.

 

 

 

 

The narrower roof over the guards van is also quite apparent. I am getting on with reshaping the other end while I wait for some wire and microstrip to arrive. I have ordered the vents from Lanarkshire Model Supplies. I went in the loft and found enough seats to do the whole interior. God knows what I had them for originally, but my policy of never throwing anything away has come up trumps again.

 

Cheers for now, Ian.

 

[5Bel]

Hi All,

 

Not a lot has happened to the Lav recently, a combination of night shifts and miserable weather putting pay to progress. I have fitted the motor coaches with vents and the cantrail guttering though.

 

 

 

I think it is starting to capture the look of the real thing quite well though there is a long way to go. Just needs a couple of bright days so I can see all those tiny holes for the roof conduits etc. The project will be on hold now until December as I am flying out to Sri Lanka for a cricket tour on Friday. 

 

Cheers for now, Ian.

 

 

 

 

[Re6/6]

Excellent work there Ian!

 

Our Worsley etches are progressing at glacial pace. I've at last soldered together the TCL body but need some information for the roof detail. Can you advise me of any references that you have. The 'King' drawings are too small to be of use!

 

Many thanks.

 

 

 

[5Bel]

Hi John,

 

I am getting my info from photos as I can't find any drawings either, though pictures of the 4Lavs aren't plentiful. I will be restarting the 4Lav soon after a short break from modelling, so hopefully there will be some photos soon.

 

Cheers for now, Ian.

[FPH 603]

It'll be good to see this project going again. I couldn't find much either when I searched 'southern railway 4-lav emu' on Google either.

[Re6/6]

Finally got the 'box' soldered together and found that it did fit with a few mm to spare around the cast 2-BIL motor housing. 

 

[gobbler]

Tho' Southern is not my bag, I do like to see how other modeller tackle a scratch build or s cut'n'shut.

Your project is looking rather good

Keep up the good work.

 

Scott

[Re6/6]

 

Hi John,

 

I am getting my info from photos as I can't find any drawings either, though pictures of the 4Lavs aren't plentiful. I will be restarting the 4Lav soon after a short break from modelling, so hopefully there will be some photos soon.

 

Cheers for now, Ian.

Hi Ian

 

Here's a (blurry!) blow up of roof detail on a DMBT from an old photograph sent to us. 

 

The periscope is available from NNK (Phoenix/Precision Paints)

 

 

 

 

 

[5Bel]

Hi John,

 

That's an interesting shot. I have got mine near enough to not move anything around! I have not been able to do much lately but have managed to get most of one power car finished.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have enough conduit boxes for the other DMBS but Southern Pride are showing out of stock so I will try the Markits ones. I had forgotten how tedious doing the rooves of Southern EMU's are. Still only three cars to go!! Hopefully I will get some more free time to do more in the next few weeks.

 

Cheers for now, Ian

 

 

[Re6/6]

Hi Ian,

 

That's a lovely crisp looking roof. What did you use to support the roof conduits?

 

I was pleased with the NNK w/m castings from Phoenix.

[5Bel]

Hi John,

 

So far I have used Southern Pride lamp tops on all my SR Emu's but they are out of stock at the moment so I am going to give the Markits version a go for the TC and TCL. The other bits of wire are secured by loops of 3amp fusewire. This can be very tedious for a 4 car unit! My next 4mm model will be a BR pattern 4Epb so no roof conduit!!

 

Cheers for now, Ian