RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted December 16, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 16, 2014 Both of these events are held in June - should we be looking at moving away from the traditional 'winter' exhibition season and having the show mid summer with less chance of clashing with any of the more established shows. As one of the organisers of the 7mmNGA show, we have recently had a letter from Burton Town Hall to say that the large office block next door has been sold to Burton College along with half the car park and so in 2015 there will be building work going on which will restrict the spaces available. Plenty of space on the roadside as long as you take note of the restrictions and other Pay and Display car parks available nearby. Another big advantage is that the station is only a few hundred yards away. Of course the Mickleover Community Centre is still available where we had the very first Members' Day back in 2007 - problem is that the RMweb membership was about 250 back then - now it's 25,000 ! ! . Our show is held in the first weekend in July. Summer exhibitions bring their own problems one of which is the weather, if it is fine the casual visitors (mum, dad and 2.4 kids) stay away, if its wet you have to have a venue close to the outdoor attractions to draw in that same audience, two requirements that are at odds with each other. Another requirement would be a venue with working air conditioning, its surprising how much heat is generated at an exhibition. Not only do you have a large number of bodies in a relatively small space but a couple of dozen or more electrical transformers running also throws out a lot of heat. Also there are other summer events although not directly model railway related can have an effect, most years our exhibition is on at the same time as the North Weald bus rally, an event I also would love to attend but I am committed to our own exhibition so I have only been able to attend it twice in the last decade or so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted December 16, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 16, 2014 problem is that the RMweb membership was about 250 back then - now it's 25,000 ! ! If it helps to manage the numbers a bit I can say quite definitely that barring unplanned major lottery wins I shall not be able to attend anything in the UK next June or July Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Grafarman Posted December 16, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 16, 2014 We won't be holding a comparable event during 2015 at the same venue. With the added issue of football or rugby on every weekend through what would be viewed the traditional show season it brings too many variables into the equation. We'll never know what possible impact that had on the weekend or could have for at a future event. I honestly don't think that was the issue, I think it was a combination of things which impacted attendance such as clashes with other established events, marketing as an RMweb led event which wouldn't necessarily appeal to traditional local or family visitors to a local show and maybe even general showgoers felt it wasn't a formulaic event with as many layouts as possible. Or even the potentially controversial thought that there aren't enough practical modellers to merit a large event and premium venue. It's a shame as the facilities for exhibitors and visitors were second to none for any venue I've seen used for a show. However there many very positive elements to the event and we will build these things such as the improved approach to demos and interaction into our established events. We've already implemented much of what we did in the theatre at the Ricoh into shorter and more entertaining presentations at Peterborough and we will be doing the same at Doncaster and Ally Pally. We're planning for Peterborough next year at the moment and part of the show will include a lot of the positive aspects and some more ideas. It would have been great to establish a new premium event aimed at the full spectrum of active modellers out there but for whatever factors were in play there was insufficient support for it in visitor numbers. Maybe at a smaller venue with lower overheads it would work but it would be good to look at ways of bettering the norm and finding a different sort of venue. Very late to this I'm afraid but just to express my sadness that RMweb Live won't be repeated 'as is'. All in my party thoroughly enjoyed the Saturday, and thought it well worth the trip up from London. As has already been said, it's unlikely this unique experience can be replicated at Ally Pally, which is my 'local' large event, so sadly that probably means I won't bother with that either - I guess I was 'spoiled' by RMweb Live so I now see the other 'main' events in a different, rather critical, light. Ah, well, it was a one-off good 'un and I'm glad I was involved... David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
runs as required Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 We won't be holding a comparable event during 2015 at the same venue.......It would have been great to establish a new premium event aimed at the full spectrum of active modellers out there but for whatever factors were in play there was insufficient support for it in visitor numbers. Maybe at a smaller venue with lower overheads it would work but it would be good to look at ways of bettering the norm and finding a different sort of venue. Ah well! Pity....I was able to earn serious Brownie points with SWMBO, offering to chauffeur drive her Downton Abbey style from Tyneside to Warwickshire in the back of the battered Mondeo to visit daughter and grandchildren for the week-end - then just 'happening to discover' the RMweb Ricoh event a mere 5 miles away. On the other hand, by attending both days, I got to sample tasters of so many aspects of the hobby; they will easily see me out ..... trying to rehearse on the workbench. :sungum: Good luck with the new venue/format. dhig Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 16, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 16, 2014 One thing I'm liking about this thread is that reference to this event and 'votes in favour of it' just won't give up and die Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold SHMD Posted December 16, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 16, 2014 One thing I'm liking about this thread is that reference to this event and 'votes in favour of it' just won't give up and die Indeed. The multiple one-to-one demo's I enjoyed, (note plural), are pretty much a why this week I can run trains for the first time. (Although if numbers were higher I do wonder how many I could/would have received then?) I will definitely miss this events none return. Kev. (Attendee of both days.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Huw Griffiths Posted December 16, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 16, 2014 One thing I'm liking about this thread is that reference to this event and 'votes in favour of it' just won't give up and die Are you surprised? I'm not. This was one event where a lot of us punters felt that we had some input - some "say" - in what was set out in front of us. It was also an event where new exhibitors - new layouts - new demonstrators - actually had some chance of being seen - none of the stale "play safe and give 'em exactly what we've been giving 'em for the last 20 years" malarkey. Please don't get me wrong - there's absolutely nothing wrong with established, experienced, exhibitors - they usually know how to put on a show - but some new blood might be appreciated every now and then. This show gave some new people a chance to have a go and learn - something which I (as somebody who used to work in a university) am keen to encourage. If this show had been repeated, I'm sure that a few more people might have been tempted to have a go - some of them undoubtedly people with expertise in subjects useful to modelmakers, but not traditionally seen at exhibitions. Some of them might have been people who were afraid of volunteering first time round, but - after seeing that most punters don't bite - might have summoned the courage to have a go - "might" now being the operative term. However, it's evident that this is not to be. Commercial realities have got in the way - commercial realities that could easily have been different, if things had worked out differently. Perhaps, if somebody were to try this again, the timing could be different - there might be less clashes with established events - Wasps or Coventry City might not be playing at home - it might be pitched in a different way that attracts more of the target audience (an audience that many of us know exists). Who knows what could happen, if only things worked out differently? We can all dream - but, unfortunately, nightmares are also dreams (just bad ones). To me, the problem with this event wasn't the fact that somebody didn't "play safe". It was just bad luck - pure and simple. My gut feeling is that, were somebody to try again with this event - same place - but different timing - things could easily work differently. Obviously, it's easy for me to say this - it's not my money - but, as has already been pointed out, the number (and tone) of posts in this thread after the "pulling the plug" announcement strongly suggests to me that an appetite still exists for this show - not that this is likely to make any difference, you understand. No - I guess that it will continue to be a case of "same old - same old". There's nothing wrong with the established shows, except that they rarely seem to break new ground - ground that could really do with being broken, by somebody - to draw more fresh blood into this hobby. Huw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Parker Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 No - I guess that it will continue to be a case of "same old - same old". Same old works though. Just look at the Hornby Magazine GETS held a few miles down the road at Gaydon a month or so later. A traditional layout'n'trade show that was very well attended - deservedly so according to people who visited (I was in Australia or I'd have paid to go in). Plenty of other shows use the same formula with similar results. Truth is, the market is not what many here assume it to be. The average modeller does not build a wagon kit. He/she won't weather a model. Not only don't they do it, they have absolutely no ambition to do so and when I suggest they might like to have a go, they look at me like I've gone mad and then make a joke about the suggestion being too difficult or time consuming. As such, a show encouraging modelling was always going to be a brave move. As it turned out, too brave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Would Warners sponsor (at a lower cost) a member get together like the old Stafford one, in the "closed season" away from major show dates? One that encouraged novices to exhibiting (like myself) to bring something along as well as the established layouts? Being controversial, perhaps with people being asked to donate to help cover the cost of organising and room hire in advance so as to help defray the cost which no doubt Warners might be a bit nervous of following RMWeb live? I felt I really benefitted from getting my efforts into a big show for the first time and it would be a shame if other novices didn't get a chance to debut a project at an exhibition because the majority of big shows tend to go for larger, "experienced" layouts or don't seem to canvas for newbies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Parker Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 I felt I really benefitted from getting my efforts into a big show for the first time and it would be a shame if other novices didn't get a chance to debut a project at an exhibition because the majority of big shows tend to go for larger, "experienced" layouts or don't seem to canvas for newbies. The way on to the show circuit is via smaller shows. Join you local club for a start. Exhibition managers are always looking for new layouts as long as they are good enough, and that doesn't mean perfect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Except here on the Welsh Coast there are no local clubs, Porthmadog being over 20 miles away is probably the nearest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Except here on the Welsh Coast there are no local clubs, Porthmadog being over 20 miles away is probably the nearest. There is always the eLayouts section of ukmodelshops, plus general word of mouth/internet talk. When my first home project was on the circuit 7-8 years ago and more recently with the current layout, I reckon only half of future invites came from being asked directly at a show I was exhibiting at. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Parker Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Except here on the Welsh Coast there are no local clubs, Porthmadog being over 20 miles away is probably the nearest. My local club (7 miles away) has plenty of members who live over 20 miles away but I'll admit the roads around here are a bit better than yours are likely to be. We don't see them every week but that's the case with most of us. Do they offer a cheaper "country" membership perhaps? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter220950 Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 My local club (7 miles away) has plenty of members who live over 20 miles away And one who lives over 40! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Twenty miles here on the Welsh Coast is like 40 miles over the border. It's why the train is so popular, not least it cuts the 45 minute road journey from Fairbourne to Barmouth to about 7 minutes by train. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will J Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Thinking of suitably located locations for a 'mini-ricoh' event, carrying on the theme of skills and demonstrations, how about Kidderminster railway museum? I was gutted to miss the 2mm fs event there in the summer, how did the upstairs room fare as a venue? I have exhibited there before in amongst other micro layouts. Good transport links, beer, heritage railway.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLD Posted December 16, 2014 Share Posted December 16, 2014 Given the attendance this year, am I surprised that there won’t be a repeat next year - no … Am I disappointed - mixed feelings really… I didn’t attend myself, being one of the very many with other commitments elsewhere on what was undeniably a poor choice of date with a large number of other established events (modelling, prototype and other transport related) but virtually all the feedback from those who attended was good. From reports it really did achieve the aim of being more modelling focussed and had a different atmosphere more akin to the member’s days than the usual shows so was something worth developing further I am however not disappointed that the Warners shows portfolio is not expanded further. The other shows are unashamedly sold on quantity not quality and aimed at the downmarket end of the hobby, so thankfully Coventry is dropped from the schedule rather than morphed into another Doncaster/Peterborough clone ‘using’ the RM Web Brand. I was quietly hoping that RM Web Live would be a success and perhaps in the longer term replace one of the other Warners shows in the calendar… My overall analysis / conclusions based on what I have heard and read: A brave effort to do something different, and deserving of credit for that. A very poor choice of date - showed a lack of awareness of the established market to introduce a new event in the peak season, especially clashing with two scale/gauge specific events which have a particularly loyal following. A questionable choice of venue, not for the facilities offered for the exhibitor but because of public perception of the location. Indifferent marketing - Heavy reliance on the RM Web brand which would not have been clear to the widest audience, and by all accounts very little effort to attract the local market. Pricing perceived to be on the high side for the number of layouts (compared to the other shows that weekend) or too few layouts for the money (by the more typical audience of the other Warner’s shows). My thoughts / challenges to Andy & Warners: Stick with the concept - it has merit and is worth pursuing and developing. Select the date carefully - look to minimise clashes, possibly look to the shoulders of the traditional season, either late May/early June or the January lull. Forget the big prestigious venues - tune the size and cost of the event more realistically to the size of the audience and likely income. Take the show to the members! - move it around the country and enlist different local groups of members, rather than shipping in the same faces from all over the country every time at considerable expense. (this works well for several of the national specialist groups) Headline the publicity with the RM Web brand, but explain more clearly for the non-member what that is “Railway Modelling and more” or similar strapline… and ensure local coverage - that is where the volume audience is. Accept it will not necessarily be the biggest money spinner, but being seen to support the upper end of the market will enhance reputation and prestige. Goodwill is priceless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
2mm Andy Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Thinking of suitably located locations for a 'mini-ricoh' event, carrying on the theme of skills and demonstrations, how about Kidderminster railway museum? I was gutted to miss the 2mm fs event there in the summer, how did the upstairs room fare as a venue? I have exhibited there before in amongst other micro layouts. Good transport links, beer, heritage railway.... I doubt that it would be big enough - the 2mm Supermeet was quite cramped in places, and I would think that an RMweb 'do' would be more popular. Access for layouts is also interesting, involving a rather high metal fire escape staircase - fine if you're carrying a micro layout but a bit iffy if it happens to be BCB that you're moving! The room also gets rather warm in the summer, although that was a good excuse to go outside to cool down and watch the trains! Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold queensquare Posted December 17, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 17, 2014 I doubt that it would be big enough - the 2mm Supermeet was quite cramped in places, and I would think that an RMweb 'do' would be more popular. Access for layouts is also interesting, involving a rather high metal fire escape staircase - fine if you're carrying a micro layout but a bit iffy if it happens to be BCB that you're moving! The room also gets rather warm in the summer, although that was a good excuse to go outside to cool down and watch the trains! Andy I'd agree with Andy. It's a really nice location and would probably be fine for a meet on the scale of the RMWeb day that CK organises in Taunton but nothing bigger. As he says getting layouts up the fire escape is tricky. We've had a couple of 2mm events there and it's always been dry and warm (bally hot actually!) but I wouldn't want to carry a layout up there in the rain. Jerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will J Posted December 17, 2014 Share Posted December 17, 2014 Ah yes, I remember carrying Victoria Bridge up the fire escape... Again in nice weather! Has there ever been a specific micro layout show in the uk? Such a thing could combine a 'micro' theme of layouts for small spaces (relevant to a wider / family audience) with small tabletop demos, modelled on rmweb live. Somehow an event like that could combine a small, friendly rmweb meet, something with a commercial u.s.p and in a small 'upstairs room' venue... Involve less commercial risk? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Huw Griffiths Posted December 17, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 17, 2014 Ah yes, I remember carrying Victoria Bridge up the fire escape... Again in nice weather! Has there ever been a specific micro layout show in the uk? Such a thing could combine a 'micro' theme of layouts for small spaces (relevant to a wider / family audience) with small tabletop demos, modelled on rmweb live. Somehow an event like that could combine a small, friendly rmweb meet, something with a commercial u.s.p and in a small 'upstairs room' venue... Involve less commercial risk? I don't know about shows deliberately set up to be "micro layouts only" - but I wonder if the former Lord & Butler free shows, in Cardiff, might have come close. These were mainly held downstairs in the Pumping Station, on Penarth Road - I say "mainly" because you might also have found a local club, with a slightly larger layout set up upstairs. However, most of the action was definitely downstairs - where there would be a significant number of micro layouts, together with their builders (quite a few of whom are active members of this site). These gentlemen actively welcomed questions and participation - and were excellent ambassadors, both for this site and for the railway modelling hobby as a whole. There wasn't quite so much in the way of demonstrations - which often came in the form of Adrian Butler weathering locos right in front of our eyes. As for the atmosphere at these events, it was amazing - for this reason, I attended this show a number of years running. There has also been some mention in some places of shows held in Newport's Art Deco former Odeon (which is very well placed - a short walk across a bridge from Newport city centre and the railway and bus stations - and now known as "Newport Neon"): http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/calendar/event/844-newport-neon-railway-show/ Other commitments have meant that I've never been able to get to these shows - but photos on their website suggest that a number of the "Penarth Road Pumping Station" regulars have featured: http://newportneon.co.uk/railway.htm I've only been inside this building once in my life (over 40 years ago - when I was in primary school - and this building was a cinema) - so I don't know how the restoration is progressing - however, I'm sure that there are members of this site who know the current position. Huw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will J Posted December 18, 2014 Share Posted December 18, 2014 I was looking up the SVR's facilities and noticed this.... http://www.svr.co.uk/NewsItem.aspx?a=634 I guess RMWeb has a set a precedent in a way with the Chasewater events (at a heritage railway's facility), but they were more of an informal private gathering. With all my waffling about the building at Kidderminster, I'd forgotten about the Engine House. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Anotheran Posted February 3, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 3, 2015 Hi Andy et al, RMweb Live 2014 was announced in December 2013... is it too soon to ask if there is to be an RMweb Live 2015? Just in case you didn't guess... I'd like to see one! Kind regards, Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tase Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 There isn't going to be another one Neil. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwordsmith Posted February 3, 2015 Share Posted February 3, 2015 RMWEB live...RIP Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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