RMweb Gold Revolution Mike Posted September 23, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 23, 2014 Going to play Devil's advocate with this one. But is Peter suggesting that all future shows be entered into some sort of lottery as to whether or not they should be allocated a date? That lottery being administered by some sort of federation of Model Railway Retailers and Suppliers? Firstly. isn't RMWeb Live supposed to be a departure from the usual exhibition platform of layouts and trade stands. Where the emphasis is as much on sharing skills and knowledge with a range of exhibition features such as demo's and live presentations which go a bit further than the average "Club" show might allow. Sorry Peter but I too work in a very competitive and high value market, where every day it seems there is someone else chasing what feels like a shrinking number of customers with very finite cash to spend. it's called the market place. Market places are never static and neither should they be. My own business has no right to dictate to either customer or other operation on what works best for me. It's my responsibility to determine what commercially makes sense for the future security of my earnings. I don't think Peter is saying anything of the sort - he is just stating his opinion (which I happen to agree with) that there are already too many shows. I don't know how you solve that, but I think we have reached saturation point (and gone beyond it!). RMWeb Live was certainly marketed as being a departure from the norm, but I haven't really seen any evidence that it is that different to what many other shows (including many Warner's shows) have been doing for years. Whilst I accept your free market point that will be little consolation to a club whose show is affected by any of the factors Peter mentions. Of course it leads us back to commercial show trying to make a profit (which I have no problem with) but on the back of volunteers building exhibits and manning stands. Cheers, Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nile_Griffith Posted September 23, 2014 Share Posted September 23, 2014 Hello Mike. I am a little unsure as to what this situation is as regard "Too many shows". In the last nine months on three separate occasions when I've had a weekend free of any obligations. I've thought to myself "lets have a trip out and visit an exhibition somewhere". Admittedly my travel criteria dictates about an hour or so's drive each way. So living in the Midlands that actually presents a lot of options. But do you know what? On all three occasions after checking the calendar on here and the backs of "Model Rail" and "BRM", I couldn't find anything that whetted my whistle so to speak. I do understand where local clubs face an exhibition dilemma. But once again my own thought is that what often stymies a lot of these smaller exhibitions is a lack of willingness to adapt to "market" conditions. if honest I've visited one to many "Club" exhibitions that have been more about "in club posturing" than showcasing themselves to a potential audience (I should mention that this mentality is not the monopoly of certain elements of the model railway fraternity). I did suggest to one club a while back, while discussing similar commercial problems. That what they offered as an exhibition possibly had more value to the club if "incorporated" within a more widespread public event such as a county show or large craft fair. The response or lack of it gave me the distinct impression that I had just suggested we dig up the SVR and turn it into a supermarket! (In fact I was rather pleased for having a fast car waiting outside for me!!!!!!!!). As for the larger commercial shows trading on the willingness and generosity of volunteers and layout exhibitors. Well there are quite a few other similar examples in life. I'm guessing there are quite a few on here who regularly do the odd Friday or Saturday night with a bunch of fellow musicians at the local gig. Generally a band of four or five guys get bunged a couple of hundred quid by the landlord at the end of the night. Not much return on the hours of rehearsal and learning new songs, investment in instruments and equipment and time taken getting to and from the gig itself. But thats the muse of the creative mind. An opportunity to get out and share what it has learned to create and hopefully entertain with that creation. The trick is not to get taken for a complete ride............ only a little bit of one. Organising that exhibition, rather like running the local venue. Needs some sort of incentive or reward as generally the applause is usually aimed at those on stage. There has to be an inducement to pick yourself up, dust yourself off and start all over again, all ready for the next one. Which is good really, because those creative minds need a stage to showcase upon........... It's a bit of a symbiotic relationship thang!!! The hard reality of it all, is that whether they be small club exhibitions or larger commercial ventures like "Warley". Whether we like it or not, things change. Yes you can bend a little, but ultimately it will always be a question of adapting to survive. A lot won't and that is rather sadly, inevitable. If I have an annoyance it is with a certain "Old Guard" mentality who still cling ferociously to the wheel, riding a storm that they seem to constantly steer themselves into. I'll accept if it is the perceived wisdom of those who know better than I, that there may be more exhibitions than necessary. However nothing remains in a steady state, progress is defined by peaks and troughs, fit and start's. Those exhibitions that take place, are held because some group or other have sufficient belief that there is a place and audience for that event. Ultimately you or I, or even this forum cannot dictate to that belief. All we can do is derive our own cost benefit from what they offer. They in turn have the right to then reflect upon that. Nothing exists for long in a steady state. For all our gum flapping about too much and too little, what will really drive the future of exhibitions is the return on investment employed. An investment of both belief, time and finance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted October 8, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 8, 2014 With a bit of luck there might be some "proper" football to watch next year http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/29534483 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted October 8, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 8, 2014 With a bit of luck there might be some "proper" football to watch next year http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/29534483 That is so wrong on so many levels and you couldn't make it up.What about the London based rugby fans in all of this as well as CCFC. Disgusting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted October 8, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 8, 2014 Be a nightmare for the grounds men too - pitch played on every week, lines & posts to change each time, grass never getting a change to recover plus the two sports aren't really suited to the same surface... Plus the events venue will possibly suffer as organisers won't want to class with the home games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cary hill Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Be a nightmare for the grounds men too - pitch played on every week, lines & posts to change each time, grass never getting a change to recover plus the two sports aren't really suited to the same surface... Plus the events venue will possibly suffer as organisers won't want to class with the home games. Well at least London Wasps have had time to perfect churning up football pitches with previous practice at Loftus Road (Q.P.R) and currently at Adams Park (Wycombe Wanderers). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 8, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 8, 2014 Be a nightmare for the grounds men too - pitch played on every week, lines & posts to change each time, grass never getting a change to recover plus the two sports aren't really suited to the same surface... Plus the events venue will possibly suffer as organisers won't want to class with the home games. They seem to manage at Reading Stu - it's footie one week and then rugger the other (or thereabouts as I don't 'follow' either). London Irish have used Reading FC's Madejski stadium as their home base for some years and are contracted to use it until 2026 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 That is so wrong on so many levels and you couldn't make it up.What about the London based rugby fans in all of this as well as CCFC. Disgusting. I'd agree with you...if everyone supported their local team. But people who have lived in Cov all their lives somehow seem to choose to support teams 100 miles to the north or south. There is also a theory that support halves for every division that so if a team can't even maintain local support (and that goes for Cov RFC who used to play in the top flight many years ago when at Coundon Rd), then one avenue to consider exploring is to move to a new area where a large local population will pay to see top flight sport. And as for CCFC's current owners, perhaps if they'd put a decent offer on the table then they wouldn't be in this mess... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Be a nightmare for the grounds men too - pitch played on every week, lines & posts to change each time, grass never getting a change to recover plus the two sports aren't really suited to the same surface... Plus the events venue will possibly suffer as organisers won't want to class with the home games. Reading have been hosting football and rugby (London Irish) on alternate weekends for some years now without any apparent difficulty.... Though I've often wondered why the bottom part of a rugby post can't be used as a football goalpost to save keep changing them over! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted October 8, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 8, 2014 Though I've often wondered why the bottom part of a rugby post can't be used as a football goalpost to save keep changing them over! Size, a football goal is 8 yds wide and 8 ft tall, while rugby posts are 5.5 metres apart and the crossbar is 3 metres from the ground Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cary hill Posted October 8, 2014 Share Posted October 8, 2014 Though I've often wondered why the bottom part of a rugby post can't be used as a football goalpost to save keep changing them over! It doesn't take that long to dismantle and change them over, although speaking from experience you don't want to be handling full height "Twickenham" rugby goal posts when short handed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Endacott Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 It doesn't take that long to dismantle and change them over, although speaking from experience you don't want to be handling full height "Twickenham" rugby goal posts when short handed. ...or short armed or short legged for that matter! Geoff Endacott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
40F Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 ...or short armed or short legged for that matter! Geoff Endacott Wrong sport Geoff ==== short leg is cricket Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250BOB Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 This all might be very amusing...........but its way off topic...!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandyman Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 OK to get back on topic. The one thing that I notice has not been mentioned about the exhibition, is that it did have a Bar. Yes, selling ale and other intoxicating liquor !!! And not at the side, but actually in the hall. I noted it was not far from the theatre, whether this was planned for the speakers or the punters benefit, I'm not sure. What I realised on my trips between the (layout-Bar-Smoking area) was I kept seeing the same people. I would suggest if members want a meeting point next year. Well you can guess the rest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium melmerby Posted October 10, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 10, 2014 Maybe we could get them to have some railway themed guest beers? RCH Firebox, Santa Fe & Double Header for a start. Please add your own suggestions! Keith EDIT maybe this should be a new thread!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandyman Posted October 10, 2014 Share Posted October 10, 2014 What a good idea ! I think Mr York should start the new thread or maybe a new topic " Find The Bar" (as with insider information he knows before all: where to go) and apart from the smoking area (which is normally where we chat ) I always seem to find him there as a second choice. I refer to the fact that it was so close to the theatre at Coventry. If the Bar was incorporated in the "Theatre" well ! Just an Idea Andy to fill it up, and with the old style cinema ushers delivering during the interludes. Oh what a winner. Of course, Risk assessment & health and Safety, would mean constant medical supervision and ambulances on stand by. So my dream is trashed. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve-e Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 Do we have a date for RMweb Live next year yet? The Calendar looks empty at the mo. Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted December 14, 2014 Author Share Posted December 14, 2014 We won't be holding a comparable event during 2015 at the same venue. With the added issue of football or rugby on every weekend through what would be viewed the traditional show season it brings too many variables into the equation. We'll never know what possible impact that had on the weekend or could have for at a future event. I honestly don't think that was the issue, I think it was a combination of things which impacted attendance such as clashes with other established events, marketing as an RMweb led event which wouldn't necessarily appeal to traditional local or family visitors to a local show and maybe even general showgoers felt it wasn't a formulaic event with as many layouts as possible. Or even the potentially controversial thought that there aren't enough practical modellers to merit a large event and premium venue. It's a shame as the facilities for exhibitors and visitors were second to none for any venue I've seen used for a show. However there many very positive elements to the event and we will build these things such as the improved approach to demos and interaction into our established events. We've already implemented much of what we did in the theatre at the Ricoh into shorter and more entertaining presentations at Peterborough and we will be doing the same at Doncaster and Ally Pally. We're planning for Peterborough next year at the moment and part of the show will include a lot of the positive aspects and some more ideas. It would have been great to establish a new premium event aimed at the full spectrum of active modellers out there but for whatever factors were in play there was insufficient support for it in visitor numbers. Maybe at a smaller venue with lower overheads it would work but it would be good to look at ways of bettering the norm and finding a different sort of venue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tase Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 That's a great shame. I think given time it could have turned into a very good show. Yes, visitor numbers were low but for me that meant a lot more time to be able to talk to guys behind the layouts and demo stands and tap their vast knowledge base. It's unlikely I'll attend any BRM events in the near future unfortunately simply because I feel they seem to be a 'marketplace' with layouts as an added extra rather than the other way around. I do, however, appreciate that traders are needed to help cover the exhibition costs. Looks like DEMU & Railex for me next year then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted December 14, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 14, 2014 Having attended on the Saturday and stayed in the hotel at Ricoh my feelings are that a lot of time and effort, no doubt money as well, went into the event and it was all well spent. That both days suffered from a lack of attendance was extremely disappointing although for much of Saturday it could be said that the crowd was comfortable and few stands / layouts were not attracting at least some attention all of the time. Some aspects such as the lecture theatre were well-founded and well supported. The extent to which it was possible to communicate with and closely interact with those presenting trade stands, layouts or other material far surpassed any other event I have attended. Personally I spent an enlightening and convivial 15 minutes with Dave Jones and above an hour with Darren and his Torrington layout which I was also invited to operate. I doubt either would have been possible at a Warley event for example. I'm sorry that the event will not be repeated in 2015 but not surprised. Lessons will have been learned and feedback listened to. Perhaps despite the advantages of the Ricoh venue smaller is better. I certainly wasn't impressed with the hotel finding myself immediately beneath the stamping feet of the match crowd and able to "enjoy" every word of their colourful language as the later stages of the match progressed and I tried in vain to catch a little rest after a day on my feet which had started at 6am. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted December 14, 2014 Share Posted December 14, 2014 We won't be holding a comparable event during 2015 at the same venue. I don't think it was the venue that was the problem but the dates. The weekend chosen, or wished upon you, was particularly bad for clashes. I managed a day at ExpoEM North but had to miss out on Steam at Swindon. I do think the demos worked well at Ricoh and would like to see that format extended to other shows. Perhaps there could be a rethink of the de-emphasis of RMweb names ... Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted December 14, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 14, 2014 Yes a shame it's not going to repeat but glad bits will be incorporated to the existing shows. Nice to see it given a try as a standalone though. As to names I think they should say what it is if you want it to appeal to a wider audience. RMwebLive doesn't tell you what's 'in the tin' unless you know what Rmweb is. We had the same discussion over our club show name and have two different flyers. One with Wimrail for distribution at shows and 'Model Railway Exhibition' for local shops etc, both carry the same main picture and details. Snappy names are great for brands but you need the national advertising to tell people what it is first Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 14, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 14, 2014 I liked it as an event - definitely 'something different' and with a different feel to it as it really was what it said on the tin so it would be a great shame not to see it continue in similar form. It will be nice, but perhaps difficult(?), if some of the ideas could transfer to Ally Pally - see below. As Chris has said I think the big problem was the date clash with some very 'heavy' shows on the same weekend each aimed at very much a 'themed' audience and thus with a degree of attendance built-in purely out of scale or company loyalty apart from any wider range of attendees. So yes - get some of the ideas into Ally Pally but we then come to something of a conundrum with all the BRM shows in that they're heavily weighted to one side of the country. Peterborough and Doncaster are almost spitting distance apart with modern day transport while as far as I'm concerned getting to either involves an hour getting to London then another 30 minutes (not infrequently) getting across London before I'm on the right route to get to either so although it costs me nothing to get there there is a big inconvenience factor built in - to be honest Stafford is simpler although almost as time consuming journey wise. So how about an event somewhere towards the other side of the country PLEASE. Not to decry the excellent work done by the good Cap'n and his superb annual event at Taunton but I am left with a strong impression that Warner based exhibitions like to stay close to home and there is a sort of Danelaw in operation which prevents them heading south-westwards into, say, the West Midlands let alone being even more adventurous. Food for thought? - I do hope so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted December 14, 2014 Author Share Posted December 14, 2014 but I am left with a strong impression that Warner based exhibitions like to stay close to home and there is a sort of Danelaw in operation which prevents them heading south-westwards into, say, the West Midlands let alone being even more adventurous. Food for thought? - I do hope so. There's an element of a legacy in there that makes it appear A1/ECML centric in so much as existing events at Doncaster and Ally Pally happened to see another event added which happened to be halfway between the two, close to base and coincidentally close to the A1. From my point of view it would make sense to spread the geography but again it depends on venues/dates. I'd say Coventry is as good as you can get in terms of a location. If you had a rigid map of the UK and stuck a 1g weight on for every modeller and balanced it on a spike I'd hazard a guess that the centre of gravity would be pretty close to Coventry. In that sense Coventry made sense; it's a good venue too and I'd have said it was just about on the Anglo-Saxon/Danelaw border. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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