American O Scale: "Portway Terminal Short Line, MN".

[ixionmodels]

A question without notice, if I may jump in and ask the UK residents on here: Do you buy your North American O scale 2-rail models from shops in the UK? If so, which ones have good stock? However, if you purchase from the USA, who are your preferred retailers? I've found 2-rail locos pretty thin on the ground using Google searches.

Edited February 11, 2023 by ixionmodels
Spelling error.

[APOLLO]

2 hours ago, ixionmodels said:

A question without notice, if I may jump in and ask the UK residents on here: Do you buy your North American O scale 2-rail models from shops in the UK? If so, which ones have good stock? However, if you purchase from the USA, who are your preferred retailers? I've found 2-rail locos pretty thin on the ground using Google searches.

 

I've been in American O since 1982. Some model shops used to stock various items (Atlas, Rivarossi, Weaver etc) but they have long gone / don't stock anymore. It's always been a bit difficult. Then ebay came along, and that is where I mostly buy these days / last few years. I use Peco bullhead track, not correct but works for me.

Rails and Hattons (and other shops) occasionally have secondhand stuff, very rarely new. Gaugemaster stocks Kadee couplers and (very expensive) Atlas track.

 

Buying from America is difficult, exchange rates, postage, import duties etc. Buying from USA on ebay is also very expensive, though can be done. ebay have there own global shipping charges and sort out the duty, but as I say very expensive. I bought a couple of items this way back when $2 = £1. Not worth it now, except for spare parts for locos etc. 

 

It's hit & miss as to what comes up, sometimes a glut, sometimes a famine, always getting more expensive, but occasionally you find bargains / what you want.

 

My theme is (was) Rock Island etc in the Rocky Mountains but a lot of my locos etc are Eastern roads (like Erie Lackawanna) - beggars can't be choosers with road names in O scale in the UK !!

I just use my imagination and run the lot - though you will be surprised what actually ran over there, no really rigid rules applied.

 

Beware the differences between 2 rail and 3 rail stuff, it's mostly not compatible, and always check / ask the seller. With my coaches above the seller put good photos on ebay. The wheels seemed plastic & scale, but the couplings def 3 rail. I emailed the seller and asked where the wheels plastic and what was the length height & width of the cars. It's definitely an oddball set, 20" scale length cars, 3 rail on the box but 2 rail insulated wheels fitted, 3 rail couplings.

 

What I found interesting was the plain brown cardboard sleeve on the (very big) box. A persons name and a Philadelphia (USA) delivery sticker dated 2004. I google mapped the address on it and found it was a swank hotel mid city ( I thought it may be a model shop). Another British Airways sticker gave the same name and stated Crew Luggage BA066 - Philadelphia to Heathrow"  - so that's how this stuff got to the UK !!

 

I hope this diatribe helps, I also would be interested in others views and experiences.

 

Brit15

[F-UnitMad]

Pretty much what Apollo/Brit15 has said above. Getting US O 2-rail in the UK can be an ordeal, the best place to start was around the year 2000 when as said, £1=$2 & shipping from the USA was dirt cheap too, even if you got caught for VAT.

These days my purchases are via Forum & Internet contacts, the Bring'n'Buy at Gauge O Guild events, and ebay - talking of which, there's an MTH hi-cube boxcar on Ebay.uk I want & have bid on - keep off it everyone else if you'd be so kind!!! 😝😝🤣🤣🤣

 

One thing I like about modelling US O 2-rail is that it is well outside 'Mainstream' circles. Heck, it's well outside the Mainstream in the USA, never mind here!!! What that does mean is that your models often end up being quite unique, if not in 'RARE!! L@@K' territory, which can make them something a bit special. 🙂

[Dava]

3 hours ago, ixionmodels said:

A question without notice, if I may jump in and ask the UK residents on here: Do you buy your North American O scale 2-rail models from shops in the UK? If so, which ones have good stock? However, if you purchase from the USA, who are your preferred retailers? I've found 2-rail locos pretty thin on the ground using Google searches.

I’ve been modelling American O scale 2 rail in the UK for just over two years. I’ve not found anything available from UK dealers. The Facebook group American O-Scale in the UK is useful to join. I also joined the US group https://groups.io/g/OSCALEYARDSALE This is open to buyers & sellers, every day I get several lists or offers of US 2rail stock, details, scenic, road vehicles etc. Some dealers won’t export to the UK and for a loco you have to anticipate USPS fees if $65 or more plus possible Customs and VAT. It’s frustrating to see Weaver and other boxcars going for $25 or so but in most cases it’s not economic to buy them. But I have bought & imported consignments of turnout components and two small brass locos where the vendors were happy to export and the total costs were acceptable to me. Transferring the money can be surprisingly complex through the primeval US banking system if they don’t use PayPal. The orders took a while to arrive, especially during Covid lockdowns, but all arrived safely in the end. It’s also into see what’s available.

 

Dava

[APOLLO]

59 minutes ago, F-UnitMad said:

Pretty much what Apollo/Brit15 has said above. Getting US O 2-rail in the UK can be an ordeal, the best place to start was around the year 2000 when as said, £1=$2 & shipping from the USA was dirt cheap too, even if you got caught for VAT.

These days my purchases are via Forum & Internet contacts, the Bring'n'Buy at Gauge O Guild events, and ebay - talking of which, there's an MTH hi-cube boxcar on Ebay.uk I want & have bid on - keep off it everyone else if you'd be so kind!!! 😝😝🤣🤣🤣

 

One thing I like about modelling US O 2-rail is that it is well outside 'Mainstream' circles. Heck, it's well outside the Mainstream in the USA, never mind here!!! What that does mean is that your models often end up being quite unique, if not in 'RARE!! L@@K' territory, which can make them something a bit special. 🙂

 

Hi cubes would get stuck in my tunnels and look "odd" in my eyes though they are prototype.  !!!.

 

I designed and built my layout around the old Atlas (etc) Locos & Cars. I'm surprised the E/L set caused very few problems when I ran it gingerly for the first time, but it's not been on the "high line" yet. 

 

Yes 2 rail O isn't really mainstream even in the USA. I just can't fathom the popularity of 3 rail and  I am flummoxed by the curvatures, varying scales etc of this 3 rail stuff, yet having visited the USA model shops are packed with this stuff. Some look toy like, some just about OK, some really nice though not compatible with 2 rail.

 

There is some interesting stuff currently on sale at Ellis Clark Most is 3 rail but on many items this isn't mentioned, even on the box (MTH). Buyer beware.

 

https://www.ellisclarktrains.co.uk/collections/all-products/American-O

 

Last time I went to the USA (2001) I didn't buy any stock, just accessories, building kits etc, stuff you can't find here, and would fit in the suitcase.

 

Brit15

[F-UnitMad]

18 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

There is some interesting stuff currently on sale at Ellis Clark Most is 3 rail but on many items this isn't mentioned, even on the box (MTH). Buyer beware.

That reminds me - they are listed as "O Gauge". A simple 'shorthand' guide to U.S. O models is that 3-rail tends to be listed as "O Gauge" whereas 2-rail is listed as "O Scale".

It's not always the case of course. But in any event converting 3-rail freight cars is usually fairly straightforward, simply a matter of swapping trucks & couplers - provided the model body is to scale dimensions.

Locos are rather more of an issue, steam outline in particular, and probably best not to bother, just look out for 2-rail to start with.

[jasond]

I gave up being a serious 2-rail O-scale importer about 10 years ago (Quince Valley Designs).  Importers like EDM are used to American suppliers and adding O-scale Kadee couplers to their imports shouldn't be difficult.  Everybody over in the US takes credit cards and now some debit cards, like my Natwest current account card and Paypal.

 

I was an InterMountain dealer for O-scale and I'm about to receive a large 33" wheelset shipment.  If you took on the mission properly and declared it for tax, visiting the Chicago O-scale meet could be put on expenses.

 

If anyone fancies being an O-scale dealer, even just for 2-rail, AtlasO would enrol you.  MTH might, Lionel probably won't (likes a retail profile).  And there's nobody else over here now pushing new, 2-rail O-scale. 

 

I'll have some 2nd-hand tables at Winchester in October and as a West Wilts O Gauge Group member in our clubroom in Trowbridge I can schedule some dates for a small meet if anyone's interested: 2-rail, DC and DCC, 3-rail, On30 (aka 00).  Yes, I know I should  put some sales temptati items up on the internet, but I'm starting  off 2-railing that MTH SD70M tomorrow....

Jason

[F-UnitMad]

9 minutes ago, jasond said:

Yes, I know I should  put some sales temptati items up on the internet,

 Must admit I've given up nagging you about it... 🙄🙄🤦‍♂️😔😔 ....if you don't really want to sell stuff, can't force you.... 😉

Might need to stock up on some Intermountain wheelsets though, I used my last set recently on a Weaver caboose. They used to be £8 per set of 4, what's the damage likely to be now? 😱🤯😝

[ixionmodels]

9 hours ago, F-UnitMad said:

That reminds me - they are listed as "O Gauge". A simple 'shorthand' guide to U.S. O models is that 3-rail tends to be listed as "O Gauge" whereas 2-rail is listed as "O Scale".

It's not always the case of course.

Thanks for that info. A piece of useful advice I have picked up is that MTH make 2-rail trains (locos and stock) and these are identified by the last character of the serial number, which helpfully most U.S. model shops include in their listings. If the last number is a '2' it's 2-rail, a '3' mean it's 3-rail, and a '1' (if I remember correctly) means it's coarse-scale O-27.

[F-UnitMad]

I'm very wary of MTH locos & catalogue descriptions, personally.

As I understand it, some have 2-rail wheelsets included for swapping out but are essentially still 3-rail models, with swinging pilots, short corner handrails etc. I know some UK modellers have genuine 2-rail MTH diesels, I would want to see the exact model before purchase. Often some of the U.S. suppliers will use 'generic' catalogue photos of 3-rail locos even if the listing is supposed to be 2-rail.

MTH have now closed down & Atlas have bought a lot of the O gauge/scale models, but from what I've read on a U.S. Forum it seems they are concentrating on 3-rail production.

[APOLLO]

I wouldn't start out in 2 rail American O these days - though ebay is very useful.

 

I started with Atlas / Roco F9 locos  at £15 a pop, freight cars around £8, Brand new from M G Sharp in Sheffield back in 1982. Only a few road names were available. They still run mostly.

 

Atlas (and late Weaver) 2 Rail diesel locos are superb. I have bought several off ebay, most were around the £200 mark a few years ago. Not many turn up these days.  Atlas 6 axle locos are restricted to certain lines on my layout due to curvature (coupling swing) - a light 6 axle loco runs OK though.

 

Brit15

[Bagpuss]

On 11/02/2023 at 16:45, F-UnitMad said:

talking of which, there's an MTH hi-cube boxcar on Ebay.uk I want & have bid on - keep off it everyone else if you'd be so kind!!! 

So, did you win it?

Was it the one I think it was? And no, I didn't bid on it.

[F-UnitMad]

1 hour ago, Bagpuss said:

So, did you win it?

Was it the one I think it was? And no, I didn't bid on it.

Yes!! 🥳  Wisconsin Central Hi-cube. 👍

 

Although somebody else did bid on it, just to test me, I think... 🤔🙄🤣

[Chris116]

1 hour ago, F-UnitMad said:

Yes!! 🥳  Wisconsin Central Hi-cube. 👍

 

Although somebody else did bid on it, just to test me, I think... 🤔🙄🤣

If that had been in HO and I had seen it you would have had opposition for it but you are safe with O gauge.

 

EDIT:- Just had a look at that very nice Wisconsin Central Hi-cube. Very nice, I must try to find a couple of cheap HO scale ones at some point.

Edited February 17, 2023 by Chris116

[F-UnitMad]

And..... received. 👍

The 3-rail trucks & couplers will go back on ebay in due course.

Meanwhile the difference in color (sorry, colour) between this car & my Atlas WC one is remarkable!!

my gut feeling is that the MTH one is closer to WC maroon, if maybe a tad too dark, I will have to do a bit of research to see what the Atlas one should look like. 🤔

[Chris116]

I have seen videos of Wisconsin Central trains with box cars in both colours (colors) in the same train so I would consider both prototypical even if officially they should be one or other of the colours you have. The video was on YouTube but I don't remember which one it was.

[jasond]

I'll go with Chris, the MTH car looks particularly good - body moulding, colour, even the number is right.  Shield on the left like nearly all WC cars

http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3587334

 

The Atlas car is right dbl-plug body and WC shield on the right end of that series, but like all reds varies with age(!) - early acquisition?

http://rrpicturearchives.net/rsPicture.aspx?id=734014

 

Aaah - rrpicturearchives - could have had an early night.

Jason

[F-UnitMad]

Thanks Jason!! I could have looked on rrpicturearchives, but tonight I spent a happy drunken evening 2-railing it instead... ok, a happy evening without the drunken bit.... 🙄🤦‍♂️

Atlas 70t roller-bearing trucks & wheelsets, & Kadee #740 couplers sans trip pins.

The 'pink bits' on the axles are 3D-printed parts to beef up the spindly Atlas axles to more prototypical dimensions. They were printed for me by a member on Western Thunder. 😎👍

Next steps will be painting the wheels & axles rusty, adding coupler cut bars & air lines, putting actual reflective yellow warning strips over the printed ones, and eventually some light weathering....

 

[F-UnitMad]

8 hours ago, Chris116 said:

I have seen videos of Wisconsin Central trains with box cars in both colours (colors) in the same train so I would consider both prototypical even if officially they should be one or other of the colours you have. The video was on YouTube but I don't remember which one it was.

This one from C-Vision Productions was posted by them on YouTube recently...

 

In the '1991' section there's plenty of shiny new WC boxcars to be seen. 👍

I haven't watched it all the way through, yet.

[F-UnitMad]

9 hours ago, jasond said:

I'll go with Chris, the MTH car looks particularly good - body moulding, colour, even the number is right.  Shield on the left like nearly all WC cars

http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3587334

Ah, botherations!! Just had a look at that photo, and WC 21084 may indeed match, but the prototype is a standard height boxcar, not a Hi-cube, two of which sandwich it in that photo!!! Agghhhhhh!!!!! 🤬🤬🤬

Why oh why oh why manufacturers can't just get it right??? 🙄🙄🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️ 

When it comes to rolling stock I'm not hugely fastidious about 100% accuracy, but it does irritate me when something could soeasily have been made correct, rather than totally wrong.

 

[jasond]

Yes Jordan, I must've been tired after visiting grandkids to miss that (hey, great excuse or what!) and I got over-impressed by the accurate wider vertical ribs above the truck bolsters - no, honestly!

 

Atlas did a nice 50ft PS-boxcar in D&H/NY State noticeable livery, but I'm fairly sure the scheme was applied after boxcar roofwalks on interchange cars were outlawed.  Anyway, nobody in the local club's given me a yellow card yet

http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=5772319

 

Is that O-scale these days ... where's my Dremel  Lidl motor tool...??

Jason

[F-UnitMad]

21 minutes ago, jasond said:

Atlas did a nice 50ft PS-boxcar in D&H/NY State noticeable livery, but I'm fairly sure the scheme was applied after boxcar roofwalks on interchange cars were outlawed. 

😁😁 nice one Jason. I note the photo was taken in 1986 - the "I♡NY" logo does scream 1980s, doesn't it??!! 🤣

....so yes, long after roofwalks & high brake wheels were outlawed.

[jasond]

The work of a moment with an old sheet of Letraset numbers

http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3373604

 

OK, enough ... but, hang-on, have they applied the reflective strips over the graffiti, or ...? 

[APOLLO]

If there is one thing that annoys me about the current USA Railroad scene it is Graffiti, whole trains, hardly an unmolested car. Such a shame as there are many superb Youtube vids of todays railroads all in HD.

 

I like the 70's (and earlier) Youtube railroad vids, like this one. Quite a lot of clean un weathered cars in this video.also.

 

 

Some of my cars (latest Atlas) are just too nice to weather, though I have a handful of weathered old style Atlas. 

 

Brit15

[Bagpuss]

Nice car and good spot about the number.

I'd say both colours are appropriate for WC. The MTH car is good for new paint but WC maroon faded to orange, particularly on earlier cars like your Atlas one.

http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3057361

 

It does look like the reflective strips are on top of the graffiti - and faded paint.