dibber25 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Topic creep seems to have taken place.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Topic creep seems to have taken place.... Would you like to try some as well? It's quite tasty....: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 As long we don't get onto Fudge.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 ....and don't forget the hazelnuts in every bite! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Re the watches. Quite a few years ago I used to stay from time to time at a small hotel in Kowloon. I would visit the jade market with the manager of the hotel to ensure that I got a good deal. One day I was asked if I wanted some watches. We do a cheap innards and a cosmetic fake case or we do a good quality innards as well for a higher price. I was not able to buy one watch. They were only offered in packs of 50. You name the make, they could produce it. I was told that several people from the UK were regular customers. Bernard Sorry, I will now creep away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold toboldlygo Posted January 29, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 29, 2014 As long we don't get onto Fudge.... Not saying a word... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cy Lindercocks Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Not saying a word... fudge.jpg Actually what you really need is a box of House of Commons Fudge (Yes it really does exist and can bee purchased from their gift shop). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonathan452 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Actually what you really need is a box of House of Commons Fudge (Yes it really does exist and can bee purchased from their gift shop). http://www.shop.parliament.uk/shopexd.asp?id=6914 Yummy! But maybe (trying to get this thread back on topic) Hornby and the House of Commons Gift shop could do a limited edition 00 model of a 'Parliamentary Train'. e.g. the one that only serves Polesworth once a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Actually what you really need is a box of House of Commons Fudge ........ It keeps back-benchers on their toes...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 ....maybe (trying to get this thread back on topic) Hornby and the House of Commons Gift shop could do a limited edition 00 model of a 'Parliamentary Train'. ..... I think a "Gravy Train" set would be more appropriate in this day and age.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted January 29, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 29, 2014 I think a "Gravy Train" set would be more appropriate in this day and age.... or a new version of this train set - somerset-belle - with new design of track mat, with less green and more.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cy Lindercocks Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 or a new version of this train set - somerset-belle - with new design of track mat, with less green and more.... Presumably this will have a 4mm. scale Cameron, sound fitted to say "we will resume dredging the rivers as soon as possible". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Are Hornby's supply problems affecting their other model train brands as badly? If the company reports are anything to go by, the supply problems have also badly affected their continental European brands over the last couple of years, yet they seem to have delivered a very broad range of models during this time. Is one to suppose that in far more competitive European mainland markets (lots of competing brands), that it's more important for Hornby to focus their efforts and prioritise production capacity towards their International brands? In contrast, here in the UK there's very little overlap or competition with regard to individual prototype models. As such, would there be less damage by giving the British outline 00 range a lower priority, where as if they did that to the International ranges, it might cause serious damage to those brands? The Nuremberg Toy Fair is currently taking place (29th Jan - 3rd Feb). As usual in the model railway hall, Hornby have a large stand showcasing their wares. They usually have about 10x the amount of models to show than they do at Warley. Here are a couple of YouTube videos from the event, hot off the press, so to speak....... (p.s. these videos are available in HD if your computer has the capability) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted January 30, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 30, 2014 Are Hornby's supply problems affecting their other model train brands as badly? It wouldn't surprise me if the limited production capacity for Hornby as a whole with SK/Kader hasn't been prioritised recently to the International brands such as Rivarossi (as in your video of an FS E.636). Certainly a number of new models and re-releases have appeared recently after a long drought of items when according to Hornby priority was given to British outline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 Hello Ron Thank you for posting those videos - most informative Are Hornby's supply problems affecting their other model train brands as badly? As such, would there be less damage by giving the British outline 00 range a lower priority, where as if they did that to the International ranges, it might cause serious damage to those brands? Having spent many happy hours repairing and improving Duke of Gloucester I am definitely of the opinion that I have been short changed. Not a happy state of affairs. Regards Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted January 30, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 30, 2014 Are Hornby's supply problems affecting their other model train brands as badly? I don't think other brands have been so badly affected, but unlike the UK, the other brands tend not to promise delivery dates until the models are in the country, so it is not easy to see what has been delivered compared with what Hornby were expecting. If the company reports are anything to go by, the supply problems have also badly affected their continental European brands over the last couple of years, yet they seem to have delivered a very broad range of models during this time. For the French market that has certainly been true in 2013 with a steady flow of models through the year. Previous years were however perhaps not so well supplied. Is one to suppose that in far more competitive European mainland markets (lots of competing brands), that it's more important for Hornby to focus their efforts and prioritise production capacity towards their International brands? Quite possibly but also, as I have posted elsewhere, the margins on international models will be significantly higher than on UK ones. So if you have a production slot for say 500 models, do you produce ones selling at £120 each to the market, or £250? For the German, Swiss, Austrian market the competition will be very tough being up against Bachmann (Liliput), Trix (Maerklin DC), Fleischmann/Roco and others. France now has 2 sharp competitors - LS models and REE. In Italy and Spain however I would expect them to have more of the market to themselves with competition restricted to rather small producers. In contrast, here in the UK there's very little overlap or competition with regard to individual prototype models. As such, would there be less damage by giving the British outline 00 range a lower priority, where as if they did that to the International ranges, it might cause serious damage to those brands? The Nuremberg Toy Fair is currently taking place (29th Jan - 3rd Feb). As usual in the model railway hall, Hornby have a large stand showcasing their wares. They usually have about 10x the amount of models to show than they do at Warley. Here are a couple of YouTube videos from the event, hot off the press, so to speak....... (p.s. these videos are available in HD if your computer has the capability) . Thanks for the clips - very interesting (only watched the first one so far). If that glimpse of a data sheet is a 241P, they will be in a race (again) with REE Modeles - showing the commercial pressure in the international market. They beat REE with the 030 TU and have probably been able to set the market price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted January 30, 2014 Share Posted January 30, 2014 I think it speaks volumes when Hornby Makes the S100 USA 0-6-0 tank in HO gauge instead of 00 gauge.. it's obvious where they see profit potential. The USATC ordered 382 S100s during the war. After D-day they were shipped to Europe and they ended up all over the place. Some S100's entered British industrial use with the NCB, Longmoor, Austin etc and the Southern Railway of Britain bought 15 (00 model territory). The bigger market for a model was in countries where HO prevailed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted January 30, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 30, 2014 And the bigger profit - it is selling in France for around €190 - so say £150 for an 060 tank engine. From what I have read here there would be a pandemic of heart attacks if that were suggested for 00. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 31, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 31, 2014 And the bigger profit - it is selling in France for around €190 - so say £150 for an 060 tank engine. From what I have read here there would be a pandemic of heart attacks if that were suggested for 00. And, even if they had been thinking of doing one in OO, the announcement of the one commissioned by Model Rail Magazine beat them to it. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ron Ron Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 For the German, Swiss, Austrian market the competition will be very tough being up against Bachmann (Liliput), Trix (Maerklin DC), Fleischmann/Roco and others. France now has 2 sharp competitors - LS models and REE. In Italy and Spain however I would expect them to have more of the market to themselves with competition restricted to rather small producers. Other than Hornby's Rivarossi and Lima brands, there are a number of other manufacturers supplying the Italian market, both home based and foreign. Os.Kar, ACME, ViTrains, Comofer, Hobbytrain, Roco, Fleischmann, Liliput, plus items in a few other ranges (e.g. ESU). I wouldn't in any way say they have the market to themselves. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Brasher Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 And, even if they had been thinking of doing one in OO, the announcement of the one commissioned by Model Rail Magazine beat them to it. John Hornby Acho used to make an HO scale USA tank. These are worth over £100 now. We used to have a USA tank on the preserved Swanage Railway that I am modelling so I have ordered one from Model Rail Magazine. This item and the Kernow models seem to be delayed for longer than the Hornby models but no one seems to mind. I think one problem with Hornby is that it has advertised anticipated delivery dates which have not been met whereas the other companies have not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted January 31, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 31, 2014 Hornby Acho used to make an HO scale USA tank. These are worth over £100 now. We used to have a USA tank on the preserved Swanage Railway that I am modelling so I have ordered one from Model Rail Magazine. This item and the Kernow models seem to be delayed for longer than the Hornby models but no one seems to mind. I think one problem with Hornby is that it has advertised anticipated delivery dates which have not been met whereas the other companies have not. Hornby's problem is that it is Hornby. It is forever associated with the Margate days, when a catalogue-to-available timespan for a model would be measured in months, and the models would be available for years at a time. Also their key, if not dominant, position in the market means they are expected to be bigger and better at delivery than anyone expects of a magazine or a shop-commissioner like Kernow, who are logically perceived to have less clout in China. Hornby can't win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted January 31, 2014 Share Posted January 31, 2014 secondhand prices on the up . LNER Flying Fox A1 just gone to for £112 plus p&p on ebay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted January 31, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 31, 2014 Other than Hornby's Rivarossi and Lima brands, there are a number of other manufacturers supplying the Italian market, both home based and foreign. Os.Kar, ACME, ViTrains, Comofer, Hobbytrain, Roco, Fleischmann, Liliput, plus items in a few other ranges (e.g. ESU). I wouldn't in any way say they have the market to themselves. . You are of course right Ron3, I had completely forgotten about Vitrains. The big boys have always dabbled in countries outside their immediate territories, but generally it is dabbling rather than offering something that might equate to a comprehensive range. That is why I said "more of the market to themselves" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted February 1, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 1, 2014 Now back to the factory... How much more expensive is it in raw materials and labour to manufacture a HO gauge s100 than a OO gauge one ??? Hornby knows where its profit lies. On the last line I cannot disagree, which perhaps is why we UK modellers have been starved of models. It is a point I keep making and many seem to want to disregard. We are not paying the current world market rate for our models and producers who will pay this to the manufacturer get first shot - It could be Roco or it could be Hornby international - back of the queue is Hornby UK just after Bachmann UK. On the basis of cost I think we can make some rough calculations: 00 is 1/7th bigger than H0. Therefore the height will be 1/7th bigger, the width 1/7th bigger and the length 1/7th bigger. If everything were scaled up then an 00 model would contain just short of 50% more material than an H0 one (8/7x8/7x8/7 = 1.49.....). This might be true for some solid items - perhaps a moulded dome, chimney whistle etc. For hollow items however - like boilers - I see no reason why the thickness of the moulding need technically change by much or at all. So for these items the increase should be around 30% (length x height). A few items perhaps need not change at all - you could probably use the same motor and gear train on the same axles. Overall you are probable looking at +40% by material and +30% by values - but these are purely theoretical numbers. I leave out the design cost factor, where it could actually be simpler to increase everything in all dimensions for the moulds, etchings etc. But you would need a new set of moulds - maybe £100k plus the design costs etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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