Peterkern23 Posted February 5, 2014 Author Share Posted February 5, 2014 I have FINALLY finished the window aperture. So diddly and hard to get even. Most of the wonky ness will be hidden by the frame. My hand is tingling from the dremel. I'll be getting white finger next. I think this part of the build is on par with the scribing! Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
freebs Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 Hi Pete - I saw a great technique for chipped paint on a youtube video for a Miltary modelling technique... Cover your door with cheap hairspray - if you can't spray it directly, spray some in a pot and then paint on. When it's dry, paint over with your colour of choice (acrylic) Then when this has dried off, paint over the surface with water, wetting it thoroughly so the paint starts to lift off the hairspray, and with a cocktail stick, start teasing at the paint surface to create a peeling paint effect... by the way - the door looks brilliant! as do the walls Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
C&WR Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I use the salt technique, Pete. Simply put it goes like this, much as freebs says: Paint your base layer to be the colour you want to have showing through. I have cheated on this by using foil-coated card as I was making metal doors! When dry wet the surface then sprinkle with salt. You can use a variety including normal table salt and big flakes of sea salt depending on how decrepit you want it, although I find the sea salt a bit much in 4mm scale! Allow to dry again. Spray, using an airbrush or rattle can. The perceived wisdom is that brush painting doesn't work as it dislodges the salt. although with a gentle hand and a soft brush I see no reason why this shouldn't work. Allow to dry again then wash the piece in warm water. This causes the slat to dissolve leaving the base layer showing through. I am told this only works properly with acrylics. I have used the technique with enamels, but they form too strong a coating and with my little tank I needed to use a nail brush to get the chipping effect having found poking at the salt with the point of a pin was trashing the paint. It should come out like this: The best tutorial I've found on this is here A good tutorial on the hairspray method is here. I've not tried it, but in short: Paint base layer. Seal base with a laquer-based satin varnish. The varnish type is crucial as it needs to both protect the base coat and also not be something the hairspray will stick to. Give it a couple of layers of hairspray, type unimportant although it needs to be water-soluble. Spray the top coat. I haven't tried this technique so I will stick with the tutorial which says spray cans or an airbrush are critical! I am also guessing that as the next step relies on water you must use acrylics. Soak the model with water, then brush gently to remove paint on areas which should be weathered. Seal with another coat of varnish. I look forward to seeing your results! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterkern23 Posted February 6, 2014 Author Share Posted February 6, 2014 I wanted to try this on my window but its quite detailed and I don't want to loose any of it with multiple coats of paint. Last night I began the window using plastic strips. I printed off a metal mesh grid from photoshop onto thin acetate. This is the most fiddly modelling I ever tried. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterkern23 Posted February 6, 2014 Author Share Posted February 6, 2014 Thanks for the tips gents. I think I might try both methods on some test pieces in the near future Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass0four Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I don't have any masking fluid. Do you know any alternative ways using salt or similar? I would have to do this elsewhere, the door is coated with weathering powder! Perhaps the windows? Sorry for the delay, Pete. The technique is very simple, but - on reflection aren't suited to your doors (too complex shapes and sizes) and certainly not your brilliant windows! (I've read ahead) It's best suited for large, wooden doors made from vertical planking. The Scalescenes free download, low relief warehouse has the perfect sizes. I use artists masking-fluid as designed for water-colour+ work. You paint it in tiny streaks and blobs on the wooden surface where required, then, after it's dried, paint the door with the acrylic colour of choice. When thoroughly dry, the bumps that show the masking fluid are scraped lightly off to reveal the timber below. That's it. This is a good example of something that should be tried and photographed to show you. In future that's what I'll be doing. :-D Tony. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
freebs Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Those windows look superb - excellent work! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterkern23 Posted February 6, 2014 Author Share Posted February 6, 2014 Cheers freebs. I had a discussion with Allan D about detail being lost at a distance but I stubbornly disagreed! He's right. Most of this detail is lost at about 3 feet, but in photos it gets picked up a little. So I have eaten my words. The x was a bit sharp. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
allan downes Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Re wasted detail. Taking this Steelworks as an example, had it been six feet deep as opposed to three, everything beyond three would have been lost on the eye so therefore pointless and hours and hours of work gone unappreciated. Now at 16 foot from one end to the other the same applies but the difference is, is that one can walk up and down and view the layout in part. But even so, the plant at the back didn't get the same attention to detail as the plant along the front and I was a great believer (and an idle sod !) in not modelling what you can't see - unless the customer insisted on it - a station forecourt in all its glory pressed up against a backscene - what a waste ! Cheers, lecture over, gonna get my dinner. Allan . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brass0four Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Allan is bloody wonderful! - I'm not fit to launder his jock-strap - but he makes it all from a big-bin scrap box with no reference to how anything works! LOL Pete, if you can see it, model it, and your followers will enjoy the benefit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Stubby47 Posted February 6, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 6, 2014 Peter, your doors are hung the wrong way round - the diagonals should point up and out from the hinged edge. Stu Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterkern23 Posted February 7, 2014 Author Share Posted February 7, 2014 That's okay stubby, I'll just get a new one out of my "just in case" drawer. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterkern23 Posted February 7, 2014 Author Share Posted February 7, 2014 It was right at the bottom and I blew a bit of dust off.... Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterkern23 Posted February 7, 2014 Author Share Posted February 7, 2014 Re wasted detail. Taking this Steelworks as an example, had it been six feet deep as opposed to three, everything beyond three would have been lost on the eye so therefore pointless and hours and hours of work gone unappreciated. Now at 16 foot from one end to the other the same applies but the difference is, is that one can walk up and down and view the layout in part. But even so, the plant at the back didn't get the same attention to detail as the plant along the front and I was a great believer (and an idle sod !) in not modelling what you can't see - unless the customer insisted on it - a station forecourt in all its glory pressed up against a backscene - what a waste ! Cheers, lecture over, gonna get my dinner. Allan IMG_0057.jpgIMG_0056.jpg. Allan - a good friend of mine is a military modeller. He tells me that when some modellers build a plane, they will paint the internal parts in detail, including fuselage ribbing that is totally hidden to the viewer when the two halves are glued together. A case of "I know it's there even if you don't". He can't really explain to me why they do this. Apparently it's very common among the elite of the military modelling scene! I haven't painted the inside of the wood doors! They remain a glorious plastic white. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
C&WR Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 If you look at my buildings, Pete, they are detailed far beyond what can actually be seen through the windows once the roof is on even allowing for them being illuminated. It's hard to explain, but it's to do with the eye expecting to see some texture inside and creating an impression of reality. I'd also add that sometimes when building something it's not until its complete that one can tell what one can see from unexpected angles. It's taking photographs that has highlighted this for me - I seem to recall not bothering painting all the way through the culvert carrying my stream (which is all of 5 or 10mm in diameter) and then in a picture realising the bright white plastic of the unpainted section was really evident. There is also the satisfaction for oneself knowing what is in there even if others don't! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
freebs Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Pete, your painting skills are sublime, That door looks utterly believable I just finished building a Goods Shed and modelled the interior of the office complete with potted plant on top of a fiing cabinet. You can only see it if you press your eye right against the tiny window. I also detailed the loading bay - again only visible from a camera angle right in the doorway. I suppose there's a lot of fun to be had detailing interiors, just for the sake of it. Those military modellers are maniacs (utter geniuses, mind) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterkern23 Posted February 7, 2014 Author Share Posted February 7, 2014 Well fellas, I have to say that I agree with you both. But only if the detail is in some way visible even if only in part or obscured. This workshop will have detail inside, but only objects close to the windows. Mostly junk! Inspiration for me comes from the realisation that cameras are so highly defined these days that more detail is a good thing. If a layout is featured in a magazine the detail is high. If you then see that layout at a show you can appreciate that although the detail isn't so visible when you glance, it is there! I had this exact experience viewing a scottish refuelling depot at the show in birmingham last year. By the way, all my photos are taken with the camera on my iphone. Proof that cameras are much better than they were! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
C&WR Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Before I got my DSLR and also went to a lecture by Andy Y I used my phone camera for all my railway photography. It must be said that the Nokia N8 was a far, far superior piece of kit to the supposedly improved Lumia when it came to photography! Quick small ad, my fiancee's brother in law is the developer for the iPhone Camera Plus app. Check it out if you need some editing software! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterkern23 Posted February 7, 2014 Author Share Posted February 7, 2014 I am trained in photoshop and that does it all and more. But thanks for the tip! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
allan downes Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Why is that when much of the fine detail we put into models doesn't even show up in pictures - unless it's a hair in the paintwork then it's presented as a ships anchor rope! And that gap that you thought no body would notice suddenly becomes the Grand Canyon when photographed? When I was going at it full time, my motto, amongst many just as pointless, was "Work For The Camera" - as yet another failed motto bit the dust. Cheers. Allan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
C&WR Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 As I just found today assembling a 1:72 Red Arrows Hawk cockpit. The transfer for the front seat instruments looked fine to the naked eye, but was sticking up about a millimetre above the starboard side of the panel. Thank goodness it wasn't set and I could refloat it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterkern23 Posted February 8, 2014 Author Share Posted February 8, 2014 This is only thory until I have finished my workshop and house diorama, but I have been wondering if adding very fine detail to a model (most of which isn't conciously visible) contributes overall to the subject looking as real as possible at a comfortable viewing distance. Subconsciously, the overall appearance of the subject is improved by the individual detail that the eye doesn't see as seperate observations. A good example (albeit a different medium) of this is Seurat's pointillist rendition of a riverside scene. http://www.webexhibits.org/colorart/jatte.html However I don't disagree with you - it's not as economical to spend time on something that might not be appreciated, but I would like to see if it works on my own model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterkern23 Posted February 9, 2014 Author Share Posted February 9, 2014 I have now finished the window, which I've changed from closed to open and added some boarding and colour. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
freebs Posted February 9, 2014 Share Posted February 9, 2014 Class work right there Pete. This is fine scale modelling at its best. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterkern23 Posted February 9, 2014 Author Share Posted February 9, 2014 Thanks freebs. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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