More Swindon And Derby DMUs

[45125]

In my search for donor engine and underframe mouldings i first considered robbing them from a Class 115 unit, which in reality had larger 180hp Albion engines, but photos suggested the existing mouldings do look the part anyway, so i will leave well alone.

 

CIMG4423.JPG

CIMG4426.JPG

 

Class 116 came before Class 117 and 118, but all three have basically the same general arrangement, apart from minor details, so again these need to remain as they are.. 

 

CIMG4430.JPG

 

Salvation came in the shape of two Class 125 Lea Valley unit conversions, which are half built so far. I shall remove the underframe detail from these, as the prototype arrangement is totally different, as are the engines. (Yes, i have still to alter the long windows behind the cabs).       BK

 

CIMG4432.JPG

The Albion engine were 230hp but got derated to 200hp.

 

Al Taylor

[Brian Kirby]

Thanks Al,

     My mistake.   BK

[MJI]

Hi there Martin, and a very good evening to you,

     Look very carefully at the piccies, the clues are there and the chassis has not been stretched. There's a fair bit more work involved and it's quite fiddly, but the method is to chop up all the donor parts into one door plus one large window sections (or one door plus one pair of small side windows), so you end up with ten or eleven sections. All vertical cuts are on the door-handle side of the doors, so as not to damage the hinges, then just under half-a-millimetre is filed off the vertical edges on all sections. Then resting the various top edges against a steel rule, alignments and positions can be checked, plus the overall length of the "jig-saw" can be checked and more material removed if necessary. When all is well, the sections can be glued together, and it goes without saying that the whole side will require reinforcement strips behind. This method does make doors and windows slightly off-centre, but i find the overall effect pleasing and the body is the correct length. Nobody seems to have spotted the off-centre effect in the photos.

      I remember years ago, a P4 modeller stretched the centre car to get around the problem, but why be so pedantic about track gauge and then make the body so out of scale?          

                                                                                                    Cheers, Brian.

 

Well Brian they are well done, but once you notice, yes off set doors.

 

As you probably know I went for the stretch, both methods work and both are valid, and both provide DMUs nobody makes.

 

How many people can claim to have an accuratish model of a Cardiff Valleys 116?

 

My method is possibly slightly easier as I chop the coaches inot single bay lengths.

[MJI]

One final thing Brian on these DMU conversion.

 

Laserglaze is excellent and if you say you are doing a conversion they will chuck in two extra centre car sheets to enable you to complete them.

 

There is a choice between the long windows or scale replacements.

[Brian Kirby]

I've got a good stock of old-tech Flushglaze to work through first and after that i'd just cut out plain glazing material anyway, like on my early Mk2s, and save myself a fortune. Regarding the ever so slightly offset doors and windows, nobody notices once it's built, but for the uber-fussy, one could always cut the doors both sides (through the hinges) and remove an equal quantity either side, but then it gets head-banging and you have to replace the hinges. Apart from the fact you have to lower all the bodies on to the bogies, another annoying thing with Lima 117s, is they put the door-stops at a different height  when they produced the TCLs, so i avoid mixing DMBS and TCL sections, but sometimes it's unavoidable. I have just removed some door-stops completely.                      BK

[Brian Kirby]

I've cut the moulded underframes off one of my intended Lea Valley units, and then chopped them into various sections, so i can re-arrange things. Here are a couple of pics showing one completed side, next to another spare 117 moulding for comparison. The new block on the right, with the strapping, will be one of the new fuel tanks. This represents the layout on a 79xxx 126 unit.         BK

 

 

.

[Brian Kirby]

Well these two photos aren't that exciting, but here's my re-work of the engine and equipment on the other (right-hand) side. Again, below is an original Lima moulding for comparison. Now i have to repeat this conversion on the other five 79xxx power cars, when i come to the 5xxxx power cars, they are different again, but at least a bit easier. :-)   BK

 

[Brian Kirby]

Now BK has been scratching his head, for quite some time, thinking "How on earth am i going to couple these Class 126 cars together?". Class 126 would never be coupled in service to any other class of unit, they only ran with either their 5xxxx or 79xxx cousins, so in theory i could use any coupling type i fancy. Body mounted buckeyes (Kadee's) might look best, but i find them troublesome on tight curves and crossovers, experience with SR units has involved cutting the gangways for clearance as well. I much prefer using bogie-mounted couplings for flexibility and reliability, usually the narrow Bachmann Blue Riband type.

 

I've been using Hornby Class 110 bogie spares, which can be used either as trailer bogies, or else can be clipped around Ringfield 4W motor bogies, which i am also using. As already seen, i've cut Hornby-style floor wells for the motor bogies (Hornby used cut-out floor wells for all bogie positions on the 110), but modified all trailer bogies to centre pivot screw style and removed the side supports and end clip-fits. The rather nice bogies unfortunately come with horrendous great moulded coupling brackets, which i would like to get rid of if possible, even if used, the bogies (and bodies) would end up too far apart, even with modified couplings. 

 

Many members will be familiar with the bogie moulding's clip-on, clip-off function, when used on motor bogies, a small hole/clip at one end, a large hole/clip at the other, which are both redundant in trailer bogie mode. Taking the larger hole end, and raiding my old stash of narrow Airfix couplings, i enlarged the hole into a slot, so as to accept the Airfix type as a sliding fit (having checked for correct height  from rail). With a little extra work you could probably adapt this technique to take Bachmann or other close-couple types. I can't fit the Airfix to the motor bogies, so these will have wire bars instead. I will not yet glue the couplings in place, since i have still to determine the car's body spacing, that's the next job. There seems no point in fitting any coupling to the front of any 79xxx full cab, since they never coupled to anything, except when being shunted in depot, a dummy buckeye will suffice. Incidentally, the diagonal cuts on the bogies, are to modify the outside face to Swindon style suspension.

 

                                                                                       Cheers, Brian.

 

[Sc59401]

Good to catch up with this thread Brian.  I've been a bit under the weather but have just spent a week working on the real Sc79443 at Bo'ness.  To answer your earlier question, as far as I can tell it appears that the AEC engine blocks were in the same position on 79xxx and 5xxxx Class 126 power cars.

 

I was wondering what you were going to do about buffers.  Although all Swindon Inter-City and Trans-Pennine units were buckeye fitted throughout, the White Circle units had lightweight buffing gear intended for shunting only; this is probably one of the reasons they were kept away from Blue Square units.  Instead of the usual saddle arrangement, there is a steel key which fits through a vertical slot in the shank (smaller diameter than on Mark Is etc) and bears against the cast aluminium stock to keep the buffer in the extended position if required.  I used Fourmost/ABS white metal Mark I buffers with the oval heads cut off and replaced with MJT 18" round buffer heads.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Sc59401

[Brian Kirby]

Here's a bit more progress, the first photo shows the to-be-motorized chassis for the 3rd and 4th 126 units, with a chassis from the 2nd unit already modified, seen behind. Using spare Southern Pride coach chassis, i add the supplied plastic solebars, these can glued along the full length, except at one pivot point, which will be removed. When the solebars have set, the hole around one pivot point can be fretted out, the solebars will hold the outside end and buffer beam in the correct position, the motor well can be shaped and fashioned using various sizes of file. The white patch of plastic seen here, is a plug filling a redundant SP body screw hole, filed down to match. When the well is completed, and a test motor bogie can freely revolve, the solebar side here needs beefing up with spare section from the SP underframe sprue added above the solebar, this will also act as a bearing pad for the Hornby bogie  side uprights. The Hornby clip-fits have to be cropped and extended up for more freedom. The second pic shows a full-width bracket for body mounting, a hole will be drilled through the centre of the bracket and matching chassis, and a screw fitted. On the full-width cabs i've employed a slotted bracket, which can be seen on two chassis here, held in place at the inner end by screw. The third pic shows the bogies being readied for the 3rd and 4th units, ten are modified for centre pivot, two keep their upright spigots for the motor bogies. All of these still have to be converted to cosmetic Swindon suspension style.

 

Hi John (59401), have you resurrected your MTK 126 as hinted earlier? Regarding buffers, the SP chassis uses nice add-on buffer beam overlays, which come with a moulded buffer shank for Mk1. If necessary, the shanks could be filed or added to, so i only need to source buffer heads, a suitable size nail might suffice!

 

                                                                                            Cheers, Brian.

 

[Sc59401]

Hi Brian, good to see more progress.  Yes indeed, I've dug out the MTK 6-car unit and I'm now making Swindon-style details to replace the Derby type below the sideframes of the Lima bogies.  Here's a photograph of the motorised leading car I took a while ago with my cheapo mobile 'phone (there has been some progress since):

 

[BernardTPM]

Hello Brian!

I've at last got myself a scanner that can deal with slides (& negs) so I've scanned the token gear that was on that DMU we rode back in '79, 1st August to be exact:

 

The coach fitted with it was Sc51785, seen here at Aberdeen.

Edited July 1, 2017 by BernardTPM

[Brian Kirby]

Hi Bernie,

      Great pic, well worth scanning. It looks a rather lethal piece of equipment, perfect for getting your fingers trapped. Was it really thirty-five years ago now? From very distant memory, i seem to recall the equipment was still being used, on the run back from Aberdeen to Inverness. I was worried when you tried hanging out of the window, to catch a pic of it working, in the fading light. Luckily, i won't need to model this token apparatus on my WR Class 120s, but i believe one or two ScR sets were re-allocated to WR, very late in life. Surely they would have removed the token equipment before going to WR? Looking at the photo again, i presume the red section folded down and outwards, hence the red paint, does anybody know more? How was the token held in the open jaws? Thanks for scanning.

 

                                                                                                                 Cheers, Brian. 

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Brian

 

I have found this on the Whitaker exchange appartus. http://www.sdrt.org.uk/resources/whitaker/  This was quite a common system used on other lines and gives the principal of how all the token exchange systems worked.  I could only find this on the Manson (GNSR) system which might still have been the system in use between Aberdeen and Inverness http://www.signalbox.org/gallery/sc/challochjcn.php

 

By the way I am enjoying this thread, not many DMU modellers out in modelland.

[BernardTPM]

I think that was the journey where the lights didn't work properly in the back coach of the unit which meant we were able to see out more in the dark. I seem to recall the token mech. made some rather loud bangs! 2/3rds of a lifetime ago....

If units were transferred they would probably take the catcher off, but maybe leave the door with a recess in it.

[AJCT]

Hi Bernie,

      Great pic, well worth scanning. It looks a rather lethal piece of equipment, perfect for getting your fingers trapped. Was it really thirty-five years ago now? From very distant memory, i seem to recall the equipment was still being used, on the run back from Aberdeen to Inverness. I was worried when you tried hanging out of the window, to catch a pic of it working, in the fading light. Luckily, i won't need to model this token apparatus on my WR Class 120s, but i believe one or two ScR sets were re-allocated to WR, very late in life. Surely they would have removed the token equipment before going to WR? Looking at the photo again, i presume the red section folded down and outwards, hence the red paint, does anybody know more? How was the token held in the open jaws? Thanks for scanning.

 

                                                                                                                 Cheers, Brian. 

 

Thanks to Bernie for that great scan: should be able to get a good idea of the size of the recess in the guard’s van door from that.

 

AFAIK the way it worked was that the whole unit was swung down to the horizontal, and the tablet to be set down was put in its pouch into the delivery spring (that bit at an angle at top right) which was turned to lie “fore-and-aft” – that looks like a wee operating lever below it.  The unit passed over the equivalent one on the ground standard so that uplift and set-down were simultaneous and the main jaws (for receiving the tablet to be uplifted) presumably had some degree of resilience to avoid the pouch getting too well wedged.  I also believe that there was a special buzzer signal from guard to driver to advise the latter that the tablet had been safely collected and identified, because the tablet business was all dealt with by the guard and the driver never actually saw the tablet which authorised him to enter the single-line section.

 

Other info I’ve gleaned: the catchers fitted to Highland Lines diesel locos (eg 24s and 26s) had the delivery springs fixed horizontally because there was sufficient space in the cabside recess (see https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidwf2009/5561088697/ ) but those fitted to the DMUs presumably folded upwards to squeeze into the recess in the guard’s van door.  I also believe that the DMU catchers lasted a lot longer than the loco ones because the centre of a DMU was a much more stable “exchanging platform” than the leading cabside of a 24 or 26 – apparently there were instances of the catchers missing altogether or demolishing the ground standard....

 

Anyone seen any official documentation or railwaymens' reminiscences about this?

 

Alasdair

Edited August 28, 2014 by AJCT

[AJCT]

Additional: mention of official documentation reminded me to consult my copies of the ScR Sectional Appendices.  Sect 3 (North) of 1 Oct 1960 doesn’t seem to have any specific mention of DMUs in the notes to Table D1 on “Manson’s Automatic Apparatus”, but the all-ScR edition of 18 Jan 1969 has a page and a half of detailed instructions.  The apparatus was only to be used between Keith and Inverness, and there’s also a bit that says ‘when a train is approaching the distant signal for a token station the Driver must give the bell signal “Approaching token exchange point” which the Guard must acknowledge immediately’ – no doubt to let the Guard put the token pouch into the delivery spring and extend the catcher in good time.  It also says the bell codes are “2-2 Correct token received” and “2-2-2 Approaching token exchange point”.

 

All fascinating stuff but perhaps a little OT where building models is concerned…!

 

Alasdair

[naturol]

What a totally engrossing thread. This has really inspired me. The level of ingenuity and craftsmanship is first class,

Cracking read.

 

Paul R.

[Brian Kirby]

Thanks Everyone, for the comments and contributions so far, the more the merrier. I think we've touched on a rather interesting subject with token exchange, so much so, i've started a new topic in UK Prototype Questions. 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/89665-token-exchange-equipment-for-single-track-lines/

Meanwhile it's back to the 126 units, apologies for the recent slow progress, but spare time has been rather scarce.

 

                                                                                                                    Cheers, Brian.

[AJCT]

Thanks Everyone, for the comments and contributions so far, the more the merrier. I think we've touched on a rather interesting subject with token exchange, so much so, i've started a new topic in UK Prototype Questions. 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/89665-token-exchange-equipment-for-single-track-lines/

Meanwhile it's back to the 126 units, apologies for the recent slow progress, but spare time has been rather scarce.

 

                                                                                                                    Cheers, Brian.

 

Good idea - is there any way of transferring the tablet-exchange stuff here to the new topic, or cross-referencing it in some way?

 

Alasdair

[Brian Kirby]

126 Interiors:   

The first two interiors i've tackled, are the centre trailer TFK (Corridor First) for the WR 79xxx and the TCK (Corridor Composite) for the ScR 5xxxx units. I've used Southern Pride First-Class corridor partitions, the second-class compartments in the TCK are also first-class dimensions, plus two types of SP seats and spare buff-colour plasticard for compartment bulkheads. The corridor partitions come in sets of four, so one is reduced to three and joined to a four, to create the seven compartment spacing. Plain plasticard is cut to the width of the seating and height of the corridor, then glued to the latter at 90 degrees. I usually put half of them on, then start adding the seats, to beef up the join and adjust all for squareness and overall level, then i proceed to the second half. One last job before painting, is to snip off part of the bulkhead upper corners with scissors, to allow for clearing the roof. The TCK (bottom pics) has a mix of first seats with armrests and second seats without. 

 

                                                                          Cheers, Brian.

 

 

[MJI]

I iwll have to look at their stuff as I have a few FK to do from opens

[Brian Kirby]

Here's the first interior for one of the DMBSs, five more of these required, half of which will be short versions to allow for the motor bogies in the van space. This time i've used SP 2+2 seats for the open layout, the cab for the driver is left open, to represent a full width cab in use, with the corridor door folded shut. When the cab is within a rake, the left-hand half of the cab is shut off like a cupboard. After these, i will need to build the two DMS, 5xxxx DMBS and buffet interiors.      BK

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

So anyway, having bashed out all those DMBS and iDMBS interiors, along with those for the TCK and TFK, it was time to tackle the first of two buffets. I've used the usual combination of 20/30 thou plasticard, a Southern Pride Ist Class partition, and their tables and chairs. Starting at the compartment end, i discovered i need to stretch the corridor partition slightly, so i chopped it into three pieces and re-joined with spacers. Oddly, my bags of SP compartment first seats contain two sizes/depths of seat, i chose the deeper, since these are quite generous compartments. A few off-cuts are used for the kitchen and toilet walls, with an opening for the buffet counter. Tables and chairs are fitted as per plan, with the inward ends of the tables rounded off. Lastly i mocked up that iconic 1950's style island bar with lower shelf from spare and two lengths of rod. Obviously the real metal poles would be attached to the ceiling, but my roofs come off, so they end in mid-air.  I've spotted a corner table in a photo, next to the buffet counter, i may add this? I presume a 79xxx buffet interior and the two 5xxxx buffet interiors were pretty much the same, so now i have to repeat the exercise all over again, for the other vehicle?

 

                                                              Cheers, Brian.

 

[Sc59401]

Hi Brian, just catching up with this thread after a long absence from the forum (domestic issues) but I have been working on the real Sc79443, continuing the job of making the new compartment partitions.

 

Your buffet interior looks great.  The 7944x and 5909x buffets had basically the same interiors, differing only in some details such as upholstery material, shades of veneer colour (the earlier ones had darker panels across the compartment walls) and types of reading lamps in the compartments.  The 794xx trailers had lamps with almost flowerpot-shaped plastic shades and horizontal bulbs and we are having trouble sourcing these as we didn't get them with the vehicle and all our spares are the other type.  The first batch buffet car first class compartments had dark blue seat material with a silver thread leaf pattern.  I don't know at present what was in the two later cars as they were built a couple of years later than the 'Ayrshire' 126s but our trailer composite Sc59404 is fitted with blue moquette with a black 'razor blade' pattern as original.  Getting into 'rivet counter' territory, the earlier cars had squared-off headrests in the first class compartments but it was discovered that these cast a shadow when using reading lamps so the later cars had rounded-off headrests.  This probably mirrored Mark I practice.

 

Our preservation group raided Sc59098 and Sc59099 at the NYMR before they were scrapped so that we could get some of the missing fittings for Sc79443.  We have a large (A3) print of an official BR photograph of the interior of the buffet end which unfortunately I can't post here (copyright and size issues) but it does show the very 1950s buffet fittings clearly.  The following shouldn't be noticeable when the bodies are on but the twelve buffet bucket seats are actually circular with a single chrome-plated steel leg each.  We haven't quite got a full set so we'll need to make some in 1:1 scale.  The same goes for the wonderful 'dancing pole' which we'll need to make from scratch, however we do have a copy of the original drawing.

 

Keep up the good work!

Edited April 22, 2015 by Sc59401