More Swindon And Derby DMUs

[russ p]

Hello Brian, yes we did look into the feasibility of repatriating one or two power cars from Liberia a while ago, even suggesting converting one into an 'X2' intermediate DMBS (as these are definitely extinct) to make up a six-car set, however the survivors are in an even worse state than our vehicles were and we would need to live to 100 to complete the project.  Here's a shot of the interior of the side shown in the photo posted earlier, just after welding new panels on to the rebuilt framework:

F135-15_Sc79443_framework_20131124.jpg

 

The spaces next to the solebar have since been covered with steel plate to form a box section which is important for the rigidity of the integral construction.  Everything in green primer has been covered with black gloss followed by bituminous paint.  We don't want to do this job again!  The windows have been particularly challenging.  Each aluminium frame is held in place by 36 brass barrel nuts attached to studs welded to the body panels.  Of course most were seized and had to be drilled out.  New studs were welded to the new panels, then the frames were fitted using mainly new barrel nuts (specially made).  The locomotives visible on the adjacent road are BRCW Type 2 number 27 005 and BR Standard 4MT number 80105.  Both are now under overhaul elsewhere.

 

I'll echo what others have said about the Golding book.  Some of the bodyside layouts are OK but much of the underframe equipment, at least on Swindon vehicles, differs widely from that shown.

 

Glad you noticed the filing cabinet!  It is home to our drawings and manuals and needed a repaint so one of my colleagues had the idea for an appropriate colour.

I had the centre compartment of this vehicle as my regular volunteer accommodation at Goathland in the early 80s.

It wasn't in bad condition back then and more or less complete.

All the kitchen equipment was present and working.

Have the interior fittings survived or was it contaminated with the blue stuff?

[Flood]

Which?

 

Chris

The Class 107. The brake compartment window positions are shown to be the same as a Class 108 whereas they should be the same layout as a Class 104.

[Sc59401]

John,

 

Whats your take on fitting the windows? I note that the Langollen Railcars guys actually bond their windows into the body like a car windscreen, as this apparently helps to stop leaks.

 

Andy G

 

Hi Andy, yes we have discussed this with the Llangollen guys fairly recently.  It's an interesting idea but I'm not sure if it would work for the buffet car.  Its window frames are a now-unique design, different even from the later Class 126 unit although (fortunately for Brian) they look identical from the outside.

 

I had the centre compartment of this vehicle as my regular volunteer accommodation at Goathland in the early 80s.

It wasn't in bad condition back then and more or less complete.

All the kitchen equipment was present and working.

Have the interior fittings survived or was it contaminated with the blue stuff?

 

Hi Russ, that's interesting to know.  All three vehicles at Goathland (79443, 59098 and 59099) had blue stuff in them and 79443's interior was completely stripped in order to remove it.  The guys who went down to the NYMR were able to rescue a selection of fittings from the three cars to build one complete interior apart from the compartment partitions (now re-made from scratch), some buffet seating (we have a possible source) and some kitchen equipment.  We might have to compromise in the kitchen area anyway due to modern food hygiene regulations.  There are more photos on  www.class126.co.uk

[russ p]

That is a fantastic restoration job John.

I'm trying to picture what the buffet seating looked like, I believe there was a chrome pole of some sort in the buffet area. I think there was a huge fridge in the kitchen but can't recall if it worked.

Incidentally with the white circle multiple working equipment how do you isolate a final drive if the engine can't be started as there are no main reservoir pipes?

[Sc59401]

That is a fantastic restoration job John.

I'm trying to picture what the buffet seating looked like, I believe there was a chrome pole of some sort in the buffet area. I think there was a huge fridge in the kitchen but can't recall if it worked.

Incidentally with the white circle multiple working equipment how do you isolate a final drive if the engine can't be started as there are no main reservoir pipes?

 

Thank you Russ.  It's taking a long time but we hope it'll all be worth it in the end.  The buffet seating consisted of twelve small grey leatherette-covered bucket seats with circular cushions, each perched on a single chromium-plated flanged steel leg, grouped in fours around three tables (two on the compartment side and one on the corridor side).  You're right about the pole, it goes from floor to ceiling and pierces a small table on which refreshments can be placed by standing passengers.  Unfortunately we didn't get the pole or some of the seating but we have copies of the original drawings and a local upholsterer has offered to make replicas of the missing seats.  Almost all of the seat and table legs are missing and will have to be remanufactured so it's going to cost us a fortune in chrome plating!  Unfortunately the fridge is one thing we didn't get.

 

Regarding final drive isolation, this is done manually using a long handle with a double hook on the end which is stored in the guard's van for this purpose.  Each driving bogie has a T-shaped handle in the final drive which is pulled and turned through 90 degrees to isolate it, placing both pinions out of contact with the crownwheel.  Standard procedure is to spin the cardan shaft manually to make sure the final drive really is isolated, otherwise disaster could occur.  This isn't unique to the White Circle units; I remember watching a BR driver doing it on a Class 101 power car (former ScR car 51803) at Blaenau Ffestiniog after an engine shut down.

Edited January 6, 2017 by Sc59401

[russ p]

Cheers for that John, the fridge was huge but used to smell a bit!

That's the usual way to isolate a final drive, after the pub has been turned on the casing the reverser must be operated several times for the pin to locate the sliding dog in the center position. If the engines can't be run to create air pressure it can be supplied from a loco or another unit using the main reservoir pipe, obviously with the white circle system this can't be done

[Sc59401]

Ah yes, I see what you mean.  If both engines were shut down it would indeed be a problem on a White Circle unit.

[45125]

Thank you Russ.  It's taking a long time but we hope it'll all be worth it in the end.  The buffet seating consisted of twelve small grey leatherette-covered bucket seats with circular cushions, each perched on a single chromium-plated flanged steel leg, grouped in fours around three tables (two on the compartment side and one on the corridor side).  You're right about the pole, it goes from floor to ceiling and pierces a small table on which refreshments can be placed by standing passengers.  Unfortunately we didn't get the pole or some of the seating but we have copies of the original drawings and a local upholsterer has offered to make replicas of the missing seats.  Almost all of the seat and table legs are missing and will have to be remanufactured so it's going to cost us a fortune in chrome plating!  Unfortunately the fridge is one thing we didn't get.

 

Regarding final drive isolation, this is done manually using a long handle with a double hook on the end which is stored in the guard's van for this purpose.  Each driving bogie has a T-shaped handle in the final drive which is pulled and turned through 90 degrees to isolate it, placing both pinions out of contact with the crownwheel.  Standard procedure is to spin the cardan shaft manually to make sure the final drive really is isolated, otherwise disaster could occur.  This isn't unique to the White Circle units; I remember watching a BR driver doing it on a Class 101 power car (former ScR car 51803) at Blaenau Ffestiniog after an engine shut down.

 

If the final drive sliding dog is stuck in one direction, isolating the drive like that does not work. The dog has to be central, i.e. not engaged in the relevant drive bevel gear.  If the dog is not central it can be done by either selecting forward/reverse until the dog locks in the central position or by operating the final drive switch until it moves the dog to the central position (not the best method as the operating pin can shear).

 

Al Taylor

[Brian Kirby]

Hi Everyone,

It's high time I posted on this thread of mine, too many distractions, and things have been rather busy elsewhere. My Inter-City 126s have been held up, waiting for me to obtain some more moulded windows, which I now have. Meanwhile some other Swindon and Derby units have been pushed forward. My 1958 second batch Derby 116 3-car needed some company, so here are five more Derby sets based on the Lima DMU vehicles. Lots of cut-and-shuts, especially on the centre trailers, where the sides were chopped up into individual bays, each piece slightly reduced in length, and then re-assembled in the required order. The incorrect "Lima long windows" behind each cab, have all been laboriously exchanged for the correct size. I've also replaced all roof vents with BR shell type, and all door and grab handles with 28g brass wire, all tedious stuff! These five sets are each slightly different, can you spot the variations?

                                                                      Cheers, Brian.

 

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Everyone,

It's high time I posted on this thread of mine, too many distractions, and things have been rather busy elsewhere. My Inter-City 126s have been held up, waiting for me to obtain some more moulded windows, which I now have. Meanwhile some other Swindon and Derby units have been pushed forward. My 1958 second batch Derby 116 3-car needed some company, so here are five more Derby sets based on the Lima DMU vehicles. Lots of cut-and-shuts, especially on the centre trailers, where the sides were chopped up into individual bays, each piece slightly reduced in length, and then re-assembled in the required order. The incorrect "Lima long windows" behind each cab, have all been laboriously exchanged for the correct size. I've also replaced all roof vents with BR shell type, and all door and grab handles with 28g brass wire, all tedious stuff! These five sets are each slightly different, can you spot the variations?

                                                                      Cheers, Brian.

 

20170329_220320 - Copy.jpg

Hi Brian

 

The nearest set has a top lamp above the destination box. I cannot see if it has four marker lights but I guess it has.

 

Looking at the arrangement of the windows of the center cars some look like they could be composites and some all seconds but without getting out my diagram book I ain't got a clue which is which.

[Enterprisingwestern]

Regrettably for me Brian they are bug units, and to my 70's spotting eyes, they all look the same! Used to hate the things, rarely collected their numbers, although the SR units I did!

Cracking workmanship, a labour of love.

 

Mike.

[leopardml2341]

.......to my 70's spotting eyes, they all look the same! Used to hate the things......

 

Mike.

Me too, but oh to be able to turn back the clock (sometimes)

[chrisf]

I think that some of them are trailers which should be formed with 115, 125 or 127 power cars.  I also think that the 10 trailer seconds used the same body shell as the trailer composites.

 

Chris

[Clive Mortimore]

Regrettably for me Brian they are bug units, and to my 70's spotting eyes, they all look the same! Used to hate the things, rarely collected their numbers, although the SR units I did!

Cracking workmanship, a labour of love.

 

Mike.

Hi Mike

 

All sorts of things I could call you came to mind but instead I will agree with you about Brian's workmanship.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bug units.....I don't know what is he like.

[Brian Kirby]

Thanks chaps,

      It's not the best quality of photo, but to explain the differences:

The nearest 3-car is a first batch Class 116, with 4-lamp front (as spotted by Clive), to be finished in unlined early green with whiskers. The second unit is a Lea Valley Class 125 to be finished in unlined Gsyp. The third unit is a second batch 116 with 2-lamp/2 dig.headcode to be finished in lined Gsyp. The fourth unit is another LV 125 to be painted in blue with yellow ends (BFYP). The fifth unit at the back is a second or third(?) batch 116 with 2 lamps and headcode panel removed, to be also finished in blue with full yellow ends (BFYP). The Lea Valley driving cars all have 2 lamp/2 dig. headcode panels. Another difference is that all three units in green have the original exhausts with combined silencers, the two blue units have the simplified separate exhaust pipes. No Class 115 or 127 cars Chris, those are different again!

                     Cheers, Brian.

 

[MJI]

Hi Everyone,

It's high time I posted on this thread of mine, too many distractions, and things have been rather busy elsewhere. My Inter-City 126s have been held up, waiting for me to obtain some more moulded windows, which I now have. Meanwhile some other Swindon and Derby units have been pushed forward. My 1958 second batch Derby 116 3-car needed some company, so here are five more Derby sets based on the Lima DMU vehicles. Lots of cut-and-shuts, especially on the centre trailers, where the sides were chopped up into individual bays, each piece slightly reduced in length, and then re-assembled in the required order. The incorrect "Lima long windows" behind each cab, have all been laboriously exchanged for the correct size. I've also replaced all roof vents with BR shell type, and all door and grab handles with 28g brass wire, all tedious stuff! These five sets are each slightly different, can you spot the variations?

                                                                      Cheers, Brian.

 

20170329_220320 - Copy.jpg

 

Some have 127 or 115 trailers - I was wrong, but you did say 116

 

None are late Western Region

Edited April 14, 2017 by MJI

[Brian Kirby]

Fifteen roofs to paint now!   BK

 

[Brian Kirby]

The latest Class 120 is coming along too, next job is to add Rail Grey panels to the bodysides. Now of course the usual advice with multiple colours, is to start with the lighter colours first, but I just find it too difficult to mask off the windows, I prefer to mask off the solid blue parts of the body, then spray on the later grey. I have started with light grey, followed by yellow ends, then the blue, but getting the blue to look right is a job in itself, with it's apparent variations, even the yellow varied enormously, and was officially changed around 1985 to a more orangey shade, although plain yellow seems to have made a comeback. Blue-grey is not the easiest livery (at least not to me!), not forgetting the white lining, then three more roofs to paint!

      Some years ago, Bob Reid of this internet parish, explained to me that on the real thing, the transfers and sticky tape white lining would go on, after the pale green undercoat (should we be using that colour?). Then the livery was applied, making the transfers and lining virtually flush with the paint, and all melded together. Finally, the top masking film of the transfers was removed, and it was job done, neither paint nor transfer required any varnish (originally). I think i've got that right?

                                                                                Cheers, Brian.

 

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Been busy on grey roofs, twelve done so far, beam me up Scotty!

     Here we see Class 116 to the left, Class 125 to the right. This second batch 116 has had it's 2-digit headcode panel removed and plated over (on the real thing in the early 1970s), the 125s kept their headcodes to the end in 1977. For the models, roof headcode boxes were removed, new cab domes, destination boxes and 2-dig headcodes were fashioned from plasticard. (Photos taken in fading evening light!)  BK

 

[Richard_A]

This is modelling I most certainly aspire too.

[MJI]

Blue and Grey is quite difficult to get right I find, and it costs me a fortune in white lining.

 

I find the pressfix one difficult to get straight and so use Modelmaster.

 

Will like to see the completed 120, I have just started a 119 using Worsely sides.

[Brian Kirby]

Here's the same again, but this time in green, Class 116 to the left, Class 125 to the right. I mixed up two different shades of green, medium for the 116 which will be lined, and a much darker shade for the Lea Valley unit, which many seemed to carry in photos. Perhaps Stratford were using the same shade as for electric units?

 

 

Progress on the Class 120, BR grey side panels added, roof grey added to nearest vehicle (the other two have been done since this photo). Next job is to draw on the white lining, yellow stripe for the DMBC and add transfers, followed by varnish.  BK

 

 

[Tug002]

Wow - seriously interesting!!!

[John Tomlinson]

Interesting how much better the Lima units look with a bespoke paint job, and that's before you add on all your enhancements. Excellent.

 

On the green units have you done the yellow before or after the green, and if after did you find you needed some base coat?

 

John.

Edited April 23, 2017 by John Tomlinson

[Brian Kirby]

Interesting how much better the Lima units look with a bespoke paint job, and that's before you add on all your enhancements. Excellent.

 

On the green units have you done the yellow before or after the green, and if after did you find you needed some base coat?

 

John.

Thanks John, again i'm breaking the rule about spraying lighter colours first, they all started off in a disclosing coat of grey primer, to show up any defects, with further coats until happy, then I go for the main overall green body colour, until i'm happy with the shade. Like with the windows in the grey panels of the Class 120, I find it easier to mask off the rest of the body from the front panels, rather than masking off a pre-applied yellow panel from the body, particularly when there's a protruding lamp sticking out. Conversely the blue units with full yellow fronts went from light grey to yellow, to blue (plus BR grey for the 120). Yes, with masking around the panels (very carefully!), I gently added matt white first, with several light coats one foot away, so as to avoid blasting it, which could result in seepage under the masking tape. Having let the white fully dry, and leaving the mask in place, this will provide a good undercoat for the yellow, which follows. It's all a bit risky, but rather like scoring a goal, when everything goes right (not all the time). You could get away with hand-painting the yellow panels, but that comes with it's own problems. BK