Traeth Mawr -Building Mr Price's house , (mostly)

[mike morley]

 

I have not seen the 'Arousal Café', I must look again.

 

 

 

[Penlan]

Uhmn, plain brown paper windows.....

[ChrisN]

Just to finish off on paths for a bit, perhaps.  I walked up and down the road I lived in in Tottenham yesterday, and then drove around Barmouth, both thanks to Google Street View.  The paths and front gardens were interesting as although some were obviously new some I am sure retained there original features.  How do I know this?  I recognised the ones in Tottenham from when I lived there.  Now that was only 40 years ago and not 110 but they looked original then. 

 

The steps appear to be stone, if not sand and cement, and I am fairly sure all of them, with only minor modifications are original.  The original paths as I said earlier were either tiled in diamond tiles, one line black, the other terracotta, or all terracotta, or square laid side by side with raised bumps on them, giving a surface to grip.

 

There were some of the same in Barmouth, mainly diamond patterned  red and black tiles, and stone steps.  The pavements had mainly seemed to have grown in width although I found one back street with no pavement at all.  It seemed all the front gardens had been altered but I could not tell for sure.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

[Penlan]

ChrisN, presumably you have looked through the Francis Frith Collection?  
There's about a 100 photo's of Barmouth.  http://www.francisfrith.com/barmouth/photos

There's not many of other local places near Barmouth, though there's a few for Arthog  http://www.francisfrith.com/arthog/photos

 

Re. Everyday clothes....
From Penlee House Collection..
C.1900 at Newlyn - 

 

Edited July 24, 2015 by Penlan

[bgman]

Re. Everyday clothes....

From Penlee House Collection..

C.1900 at Newlyn - 

 

Newlyn 1900 - Lady clothes.jpg

I think M & S in Truro are stocking these clothes now in their summer collection

[Penlan]

I think M & S in Truro are stocking these clothes now in their summer collection

Not only in Truro, their Hayle branch too..

Certainly the frock is familiar round these parts (west Cornwall).

Incidentally, note the style of the postman's hat, there is a peak, though not obvious in the photo.

I'm always amazed how clean the bottom of ladies dress where,

considering all the mud and horse/donkey crup there was on the roads at the time (seen in centre of road).

Edited July 24, 2015 by Penlan

[bgman]

Not only in Truro, their Hayle branch too..

Certainly the frock is familiar round these parts (west Cornwall).

Incidentally, note the style of the postman's hat, there is a peak, though not obvious in the photo.

I'm always amazed how clean the bottom of ladies dress where,

considering all the mud and horse/donkey crup there was on the roads at the time (seen in centre of road).

Frock....now that's a phrase you don't hear much these days ( although I tend to use it when I speak to my younger daughter !).

Joking apart, these images are always a useful source of information thanks for posting.

[Edwardian]

Presumably the caption reads:

 

Local Woman: "More O' them poncy painters down there, I zee"

 

Local Man "Arrrgh"  

[ChrisN]

ChrisN, presumably you have looked through the Francis Frith Collection?  

There's about a 100 photo's of Barmouth.  http://www.francisfrith.com/barmouth/photos

There's not many of other local places near Barmouth, though there's a few for Arthog  http://www.francisfrith.com/arthog/photos

 

Re. Everyday clothes....

From Penlee House Collection..

C.1900 at Newlyn - 

 

Newlyn 1900 - Lady clothes.jpg

 

Penlan,

Thank you, I ave looked at lots of photos but if I have looked at these it has not been for a while.  The more the merrier, thank you.

 

I do have a model of a Postman.  Mine is not painted yet so I give the link to the site selling him.  I also have some Victorian Postboxes.

Edited October 15, 2016 by ChrisN

[Penlan]

Don't forget the horse troughs either....

... and this may help with road textures !!!!

 

(I bet your beginning to regret starting this topic...)   

 

 

Edited July 24, 2015 by Penlan

[Edwardian]

Damn, no stupid remark springs to mind, but that is a particularly lovely photograph, Penlan. It oozes atmosphere and you just want to try to model it. 

[ChrisN]

Don't forget the horse troughs either....

... and this may help with road textures !!!!

 

(I bet your beginning to regret starting this topic...)   

 

Horse trough.jpg

 

Penlan,

I shall be modelling the 'front end' of Traeth Mawr that has been builtin the past 20 years so the roads will be fairly good and flat although the horse trough may appear.  I may be able to squeeze in a second road that could be a bit rougher but until I get the track down I will not know for certain, although there is room on the plan.

 

Regretting it?  No, all of it is useful.

[Fat Controller]

Don't forget the horse troughs either....

... and this may help with road textures !!!!

 

(I bet your beginning to regret starting this topic...)   

 

Horse trough.jpg

Quite a few roads would have stayed in that condition well into the 1930s; my mother says she remembers the (relatively major) road between Kidwelly and Carmarthen being tarmaced in the late 1930s. It was a hot summer, and she claimed the road-menders had to carry her bike to the other side of the bit they were working on.

The fancy Welsh costume was apparently a Victorian confection, a bit like Morris Dancing elsewhere, an attempt to romanticise the past.

 I do remember outfits like that Cornish lady was wearing, however, as my paternal grandmother was wearing something very similar, but with a longer skirt, into the 1970s. She'd have been born in the 1880s, married to a deacon, and seldom spoke English. 

[Edwardian]

Interesting

 

Well, we all know that that the Scottish clan tartans as they are now understood were Nineteenth Century "confections", but, of course, tartan was still worn in earlier times (save when proscribed by the Government!)

 

Likewise, those Welsh ladies might be p1mp1ng up their ancestral costume, but there must have been similar rig in circulation earlier; after all, in 1797, they say, the French ran away at Fishguard when saw it!

Edited July 24, 2015 by Edwardian

[Fat Controller]

Interesting

 

Well, we all that that the Scottish clan tartans as they are now understood were Nineteenth Century "confections", but, of course, the tartan was still worn (save when proscribed by the Government!)

 

Likewise, those Welsh ladies might be ###### up their ancestral costume, but there must have been similar rig in circulation earlier; after all, in 1797, they say, the French ran away at Fishguard when saw it!

It was the scarlet jackets that did it; much as a Scarlet rugby jersey might once have done (and will again, I hope). I doubt the French (or more accurately, the Irish, with a light garnish of French) got close enough to see the more subfusc elements of the costume. 

[Edwardian]

Indeed, Fat Controller, a man who knows his history.  The French were, in any case, only recently released from gaol, specifically for the purpose of dying for the Republic in a bonkers scheme to capture Bristol and Liverpool, and, if memory serves, had promptly gone on the lash upon arrival in Wales (presumably it wasn't a Sunday) and were very badly hung-over.   A bunch of scary Welsh women in red shawls and black hats seem to have worked powerfully upon their imaginations!

 

PS, forget Morris Dancing, effete hanky waving stuff, and go to see Molly Dancing. Molly is the winter dance and is sinister and subversive.  I like to think of it as Dark Morris.

Edited July 24, 2015 by Edwardian

[ChrisN]

Indeed, Fat Controller, a man who knows his history.  The French were, in any case, only recently released from gaol, specifically for the purpose of dying for the Republic in a bonkers scheme to capture Bristol and Liverpool, and, if memory serves, had promptly gone on the lash upon arrival in Wales (presumably it wasn't a Sunday) and were very badly hung-over.   A bunch of scary Welsh women in red shawls and black hats seem to have worked powerfully upon their imaginations!

 

PS, forget Morris Dancing, effete hanky waving stuff, and go to see Molly Dancing. Molly is the winter dance and is sinister and subversive.  I like to think of it as Dark Morris.

 

So, should I extend the hat and paint my sitting lady with a black hat and a scarlet shawl?

[Edwardian]

Only if you want the more nervous amongst us to suffer nightmares ..

[Penlan]

Ah yes, the last invasion, Feb. 1797 on the Pencaer Peninsula..
Believe or not I have the book..

Published by Village Publishing, written by Phil Carradice. 152 pages.
I must get a life, sometime...

[corneliuslundie]

Wikipedia says this about Welsh costume: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_Welsh_costume. I had heard about Lady Llanover but not that her role has been overstated, so interesting. I hope it is useful.

 

Re paths, if you have your narrow gauge line coming into the scene it could come down the middle of the street. This was very common with industrial tramways in south Wales and of course Abergynolwyn had a system of street tramways (man or animal powered) fed by an incline from the Talyllyn Railway.

 

Jonathan

[Donw]

On the train at Abergernolwyn  with our two dogs a couple who were dog mad came up fussing the dogs with them was her father about 80. Talking to him we discovered his father had worked on the railway and he and other young boys would play on the incline riding in trucks when the days work was over.

 

All fascinating stuff. As someone who has stayed in Welsh digs I think there is a lot to be afraid of from the Welsh Women they were pretty strong on protecting their families. I was also advise not calling Morris dancers effete to their face the Exmoor ones I know of are big burly chaps. 

 

Don

[ChrisN]

Wikipedia says this about Welsh costume: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traditional_Welsh_costume. I had heard about Lady Llanover but not that her role has been overstated, so interesting. I hope it is useful.

 

Re paths, if you have your narrow gauge line coming into the scene it could come down the middle of the street. This was very common with industrial tramways in south Wales and of course Abergynolwyn had a system of street tramways (man or animal powered) fed by an incline from the Talyllyn Railway.

 

Jonathan

 

Jonathan,

Thank you.  I think then that on this layout the Welsh costume would not have a place.  However, if I get to build the narrow gauge one, I can have a lady standing, and one sitting behind a stall selling their wares.

 

I am not sure I will have room for the narrow gauge siding in the end.  The original extension of the loop would have been the exchange but that is now going to hold the through coaches.  The new siding needs to have a cattle pen and coal staithes so I am not sure a slate exchange is also possible.  Again, if I get to build the narrow gauge layout the line will make the fourth side of the market square and there will be a siding with sheep pens so that they can be unloaded directly into pens in the square.

[Edwardian]

Yep, they can create some powerfully dangerous drafts with those hankies.

 

BUT

 

In Molly they don't wear bells, so you don't hear them coming, and they black up, so you can't identify them to the Constabulary, and they carry Big Sticks!

 

In the North, it's worse, they clog dance on your head.

[BG John]

In the North, it's worse, they clog dance on your head.

Really? I was on holiday up North some years ago, and got quite excited at the prospect of seeing Morris dancing at the local pub. The blokes turned up, late I think, and spent ages drinking and discussing their group's finances and admin. Then they did about ten minutes dancing and went back to their drinking!

[Simond]

I used to dance with the Mersey Morris Men. Some had bells, some had hankies and some of us had pick-axe handles.

 

We had the "right" to dance in Birkenhead, for a peppercorn rent. I carried the peppercorn, along with my pick-axe handle. I suspect the latter was more use...