Traeth Mawr -Building Mr Price's house , (mostly)

[Sasquatch]

It's always worth trying different methods, that's how discoveries are made! Placing the glued-up parts under glass is a good idea especially when laminating thin plastic card. I've run into problems with that before whereby things warped and wasn't sure why.

These mishaps led to experimentation with different glues including slow set cyanoacrylate. That led to the discovery of using ordinary card instead of plastic because when that is laminated with the super glue it forms quite a ridged structure and there's no warping.

 

Wonderful modeling as always Chris with in-depth explanation.

 

Regards Shaun.

[Mikkel]

Good to see you've solved it Chris, whatever the problem was. The list of things that have affected my machine's cutting include:

 

Condition of glue on cutting mat (small slips), condition of cutting mat surface (from deep cuts), quality of blade, condition of blade, glue on blade (from touching mat), material dust on blade, fixing of blade (if not 100% firm), density of material (can vary even on same product), coating of material (from manufacturer), depth of material, material of material, temp. of material (left in sun), and a number of issues with the drawing.

 

Of course, the human hand has equally many issues, including how the day has been!

 

Edited July 9, 2023 by Mikkel

[Simond]

That list is reminiscent of all the things that can go wrong when playing golf…

[ChrisN]

14 hours ago, Sasquatch said:

It's always worth trying different methods, that's how discoveries are made! Placing the glued-up parts under glass is a good idea especially when laminating thin plastic card. I've run into problems with that before whereby things warped and wasn't sure why.

These mishaps led to experimentation with different glues including slow set cyanoacrylate. That led to the discovery of using ordinary card instead of plastic because when that is laminated with the super glue it forms quite a ridged structure and there's no warping.

 

Wonderful modeling as always Chris with in-depth explanation.

 

Regards Shaun.

 

Shaun,

Thank you.  

 

Yes the reason that the laminates are under glass is to help alleviate warping.  In theory there are five layers and received wisdom is that it is less with an odd number of layers, but although I have cut five, there will probably be six as there are struts to hold the last layer at a distance from the other four..

 

Card on card seems interesting, maybe I could make coaches from that, if they will cut properly.  I understood that using shellac made card quite stiff as well  .I will experiment with super glue between card and plastic.  I am told a contact adhesive would work but you have to be careful about pressing on the plastic.  All my finish surfaces are embossed plastic so I probably could not go to card completely for buildings.

[ChrisN]

7 hours ago, Mikkel said:

Good to see you've solved it Chris, whatever the problem was. The list of things that have affected my machine's cutting include:

 

Condition of glue on cutting mat (small slips), condition of cutting mat surface (from deep cuts), quality of blade, condition of blade, glue on blade (from touching mat), material dust on blade, fixing of blade (if not 100% firm), density of material (can vary even on same product), coating of material (from manufacturer), depth of material, material of material, temp. of material (left in sun), and a number of issues with the drawing.

 

Of course, the human hand has equally many issues, including how the day has been!

 

Mikkel,

Thank you.  I am not sure it has been solved but unless someone else wants a Cambrian Third Class Saloon built in 1860 and survived until the GWR spotted it, there is not going to be an issue.

 

Looking at your list of problems maybe I should just try getting my scalpel out.   😀

[Sasquatch]

3 hours ago, ChrisN said:

 

Shaun,

Thank you.  

 

Yes the reason that the laminates are under glass is to help alleviate warping.  In theory there are five layers and received wisdom is that it is less with an odd number of layers, but although I have cut five, there will probably be six as there are struts to hold the last layer at a distance from the other four..

 

Card on card seems interesting, maybe I could make coaches from that, if they will cut properly.  I understood that using shellac made card quite stiff as well  .I will experiment with super glue between card and plastic.  I am told a contact adhesive would work but you have to be careful about pressing on the plastic.  All my finish surfaces are embossed plastic so I probably could not go to card completely for buildings.

From my skills as a cabinetmaker I understand the fundamentals of laminating different woods. Plywood always has an odd number of layers. One of the reasons is that when the glue is applied it will cause the wood to expand and when it dries it will shrink, so if glue is applied to both sides the process balances itself out sort of thing. I would suspect that the same forces come into play with plastic. I gave up trying to make van rooves from laminating two sheets of .010 plasticard and will now form a wooden  sub roof and stick a bit of card to that!

 

Good luck with it, I'm interested to see how you get on.

 

Regards Shaun

[Simond]

Whilst I can understand the logic of odd layer numbers in plywood, which has a very evident grain in each layer, I’m not at all sure the same is relevant whilst considering homogenous materials, such as plasticard, or indeed the conventional wood-pulp based stuff.

 

I’ve not tried it but my assumption is that it’s not necessary.

 

atb

Simon

[Sasquatch]

Sorry I didn't explain that very well. It's got more to do with the layers of glue rather than the layers of material!  Alao a lot depends on which type of glue is employed.

[Simond]

Interesting point.  Odd number of material layers means even number of glue lines, not sure if that is important or not.

[Mikkel]

It's also what I (and others, from past conversations on here) have found when laminating foamboard. It would b interesting to make som experimens with different materials though.

[corneliuslundie]

A mention of foamboard leads me to a possible warning about warping. I bought a box of A3 sheets recently for use as the substrate for scenery on open sections of my layout, and took some to our clubroom for similar use. While there it developed a distinct bow. The clubroom is literally an old pigsty and is not heated when not in use and probably a bit damp, so things may not be so bad if foamboard is cossetted.

Jonathan

[Nick Gough]

Good to see that you appear to be resolving the problems with the Silhouette, Chris.

Gives me some encouragement for cutting some coach sides myself.

[ChrisN]

4 hours ago, Nick Gough said:

Good to see that you appear to be resolving the problems with the Silhouette, Chris.

Gives me some encouragement for cutting some coach sides myself.

 

 

Nick,

Of course once I have made a successful cut of a GWR prototype then I will upload them if you would like them.  Mind you, your layout is very modern so my stock might not be what you want.

[Nick Gough]

Thanks for the offer Chris.

The GWR was a modern railway but always got its moneys worth from its rolling stock.

There were plenty of 19th century coaches still in use at nationalisation - either in revenue service or repurposed for other duties.

[Compound2632]

15 hours ago, Nick Gough said:

The GWR was a modern railway

 

I disagree. There was a great deal about the Great Western that was decidedly antique by the 1930s/40s, with just the thinnest veneer of modernity. The same was true of the other groups, even the Southern beyond the reach of the third rail.

Edited July 11, 2023 by Compound2632

[ChrisN]

Things have been happening, although of course as usual, not very fast.  

 

I am not going to mention the point wiring, as although in theory it is finished only 4 out of 12 points work, and another 3 just buzz.  I will have to work through the switch end, but it will be a slow process, so I will do it when I have nothing else to do, or feel like a change.

 

 

Oh dear, the coach has measles!  No, not really.  These are four laminates, and they were done in two sets of two.  I am using @uax6's method, and he suggested to stop the build up of volatiles from the solvent, that the outer two layers should have holes drilled to let them out.  The first two layers of the end are under glass.

 

This is of course just a side project, so I have been getting on with the station building.  ( I am trying to find an excuse to start painting, horses, vehicles, people, coaches........)

 

 

Every picture is worth a thousand words, except this one.  One thing I need to do better on the next building is to make sure that the sides of the roof do not butt and leave a V between them, as below:-

 

 

To fix that I took some of my stash of coffee stirrers and slit them into square strips and and then glued them into the gap.  The top picture shows that.

 

I then went to my local builder, Weetabix.  (Those who do not get British TV, Weetabix is a breakfast cereal, and they used to have an advertising slogan, 'Weetabix the builder.')  Now @westerhamstation uses the corners from these boxes for gutters, but I am not convinced, but, the other way round they have a nice ridge, so I thought they would be perfect for ridge tiles.  They were measured and cut.  Measured carefully, cut carefully, and as individual tiles it is not quite true to say they everyone was different, but it seemed like it.  When a number had been glued down with PVA I took my metal rule and paper knife and leveled them off.

 

 

And in close up.

 

 

I wondered why I did not just score them deeply but not cut through, so I would have a strip.  The porch was done like that.

 

 

It looks a bit cleaner, with an add on at the far end.  You notice that the slates are beginning to bubble a bit.  I am not sure what I am going to do about that.

 

Barge boards.  I took some thick card and measured the roof end, and drew it out on a corner of thick card.  Fortuitously the roof sides meet at 90 degrees.    The depth of the barge boards is 5mm.  I offered it up and found out that the two sides were different lengths.  (Yes, I had forgotten.)  I remeasured, redrew and this is what it looked like.  

 

One end.

 

 

And the other.

 

 

They have since been shellacked, boards have been made for the front and the finials prepared, but that is for another time.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

[Nick Gough]

Nice work Chris!

[corneliuslundie]

A good job the station does not have fancy bargeboards like many Cambrian signalboxes - a Dutton speciality I assume.

Nice work and nice to see the carriage making progress.

Jonathan

[ChrisN]

No updates on the coach as it is supposed to be a side project and I am posting this rather than make corrections to the E25.

 

I find these pictures rather depressing, as they show up how poor things are at close up and how badly the mounting board is coping with the general wear and tear of coping with construction.  I will either have to work quicker, or resort to something less environmentally friendly.  (Sorry @Mikkel.)

 

Barge boards.

 

 

The card was measured twice the size it was needed and something was found to draw around to make a circle,  (sorry, cannot remember exactly what), and then cut them out.  I then asked my wife, 'Did we ever get a hole cutter for the craft events?' and was both surprised and pleased when the answer was, 'Yes.'  It was not really sharp enough but we got there in the end with the help of a knife for cardboard.  (I was going to say cardboard knife......)  You see then in position having been shellacked and PVA'd into position.

 

Paint.

 

 

I thought I needed a dark grey, as I used dark grey for the Twll Du station, but of course never wrote down which one.  This is Humbrol 62 Dark Grey.  It looks almost black and is too dark.

 

 

This is the other end, and is Humbrol 67 Matt Tank Grey, and apart from being satin, is, er, umm not sure.

 

So finials and painting

 

 

The paint on the side is Humbrol 125 US Dark Grey and is actually darker than the Tank Grey.  Still not happy.  I have founf a picture on my favourite web site of Barmouth on a dull day which represents the station colours quite well, but I originally looked at Towyn, (Tywyn), where the stone was darker and to be consistent I suppose I ought to compare to that.  (I used Towyn before I had been to Traeth Mawr and found out exactly where it was.  I cannot say the jury is still out as it is still collecting evidence.

 

 

A view of the finial, they are from Scalescenes, thank you @MrWolf.

 

 

The other end.

 

 

Final finial.  On the other stations I have half copied, Barmouth, Newtown, and of course Aberdovey, in earlier years they had a sort of strut arrangement at the front, but there porch roofs were much steeper so it seems unnecessary on my one, which is a bit of a relief to be honest as it would have had to have some forward planning, which I have not done.

 

If you have been, thanks for looking.

 

 

[Mikkel]

Hi Chris,

 

Great to see that painting has begun. For your greys, would it be a good idea to make some test matches with whatever colour goes on the lower half to see what looks best together? 

 

I like those finials, thanks for passing on the Wolf-tip.

 

Oh, and did you mean styrene to replace the mounting board? If so, I'm the one who should be apologising, considering how much I use of that stuff! 

 

Edited August 2, 2023 by Mikkel
Typo

[MikeOxon]

I always find it depressing when I look at a close-up photo of a 4mm scale model.  All sorts of 'faults' leap out from the photo, although they are unnoticeable in normal viewing. 

 

In my case, a major culprit is the layers in 3D printing - so obvious in a photo but not in reality.

 

For slates, imagine it's been raining - they look much darker then!

 

Mike

[ChrisN]

7 hours ago, Mikkel said:

Hi Chris,

 

Great to see that painting has begun. For your greys, would it be a good idea to make some test matches with whatever colour goes on the lower half to see what looks best together? 

 

I like those finials, thanks for passing on the Wolf-tip.

 

Oh, and did you mean styrene to replace the mounting board? If so, I'm the one who should be apologising, considering how much I use of that stuff! 

 

 

Mikkel,

Did I say Scalescenes?  It should have been Scalelink, and this page has them on about halfway down, 'Assorted Finials x 16.

 

The plain stonework is/will be Humbrol 121 Pale Stone..  What I should have done was find an offcut of plastic and painted the different greys onto that.  Once I have chosen the one I want the whole building will be in the same colour.  

 

I was wondering about foam board, if that would be more robust.  Maybe card would be fine for the main structure but the roof has not fared well.

[ChrisN]

2 hours ago, MikeOxon said:

I always find it depressing when I look at a close-up photo of a 4mm scale model.  All sorts of 'faults' leap out from the photo, although they are unnoticeable in normal viewing. 

 

In my case, a major culprit is the layers in 3D printing - so obvious in a photo but not in reality.

 

For slates, imagine it's been raining - they look much darker then!

 

Mike

 

Mike, Yes at normal viewing distance it does not look too bad.  Your 3D prints do not look that bad in your photos.

 

The slates still need to be painted, and I already know the colour they should be as it will be consistent for all the roofs.

 

Imagine it has been raining.  Raining?  In Wales?  🙂

[corneliuslundie]

Re foamboard, it may not matter for small pieces but sheets I had stored in our clubroom when decidedly bowed when I retrieved them. No problem for their intended use as the base layer for scenery on an open plan baseboard though.

Jonathan

[ChrisN]

1 hour ago, corneliuslundie said:

Re foamboard, it may not matter for small pieces but sheets I had stored in our clubroom when decidedly bowed when I retrieved them. No problem for their intended use as the base layer for scenery on an open plan baseboard though.

Jonathan

 

Jonathan,

Thank you.  I was thinking of using thin foam board for roofs, but again it may be damaged easily.  I am trying to resist plasticard for the roofs, but in the end I may have to.