Hornby and Bachmann Slow Sellers

[Robin Brasher]

Despite the supply shortages some items like the Hornby Maunsell malachite green corridor 1st, the Pullmans and the Bachmann BR SR Mk1s, 411 and 416 EMUs have failed to sell at local model shops where they are being offered for sale at the recommended retail prices. This applies particularly to items that Hattons  are heavily discounting like the Hornby Pullmans. These have a list price of £49.99 but Hattons are offering them for £25.

[ThaneofFife]

People are a lot more savvy and have the resources to shop around from the comfort of their armchair now.  it doesnt surprise me to hear of models gathering dust in local model shops if Hattons etc are able to clear their stocks for big savings.

 

a few will value local service more and buy from their local shop (or say they do which is PC) but I think most folk are watching their wallets these days.

 

I remember the Class 85s when on preorder were bargains at £73-76 then after they came out they went through a period hovering at around the £90 mark now they are back down to around £78 - its tricky from our mortal perspective to ascertain if its the price putting people off or the model as some feel electrics dont sell.  I really dont know and would be guessing with an unfair biase as I like ac electrics.

[davidw]

Hi Robin

 

Not sure what your driving at with the statement - but by the same token Hawksworth's are heavily discounted. There is an inevitable saturation level with some of these items.

 

On a layout set in the mid late 50's coaching stock would have a heavy concentration of Mk1's. I have in excess of 80. compared with a  rake two set  of Pullmans 18 vehicles.mixture of Mk1 pullmans and Hornby brakes.  I model the ECML, as such I have 14 Thompson corridor stock - resided Bachmann  and 20+ Hornby corridors. Which is more than enough. Parcels  consists of multi-regional rolling stock.

 

I'm fortunate to have this level of stock ; so  but even with heavy discounting I wouldn't choose to buy more, other than more esoterice types Resturant cars triplet sets and the like. Some which i'll only get by kit building - but hey that's part of the fun...

 

One does need a degree of savvines (if such a word exists ) and choosing the right time to buy.  The original Hornby non corridors were reputed to 'fly off the shelves' now they are beginning to languish - maybe these will be discounted next?

[The Stationmaster]

I tend to agree with David - many coaches from Hornby do indeed fly off the shelves when first released  (I well & truly stocked up with Hwksworths for example) and sometimes teh second issue will initially do well.  But I suspect Hornby then go a bit too far with a good thing and pump out even more and they go into a saturated market and subsequently move very slowly with possibly the occasional spurt if they are 'remaindered' to clear them.

 

However I don't blame Hornby as it must be extremely difficult to judge the size of the potential market although they do seem to sometimes misjudge things if a model has sold quickly and been a factory sell-out first time round.

[brushman47544]

Some of the BR green Maunsell coaches reached E or maybe even F versions, so clearly sold in very large numbers. When Hornby followed them up with the blood and custard and (supposedly) malachite versions I can well understand they may have overestimated demand in view of previous sales. The malachite versions in particular are apparently the same green as the BR versions rather than being a lighter/brighter green, which may have put some people off. The Pullmans have also seen many repeated runs too and so the market has probably become saturated. That said, I've just bought another three - at £25 each they're too good to miss out. And with many of these models who knows when further production runs will be announced?

 

I do feel sorry for the smaller retailers who still have unsold versions of a model they paid full price for so can only afford to give a small discount, whereas the box shifters can buy the overstocks from Hornby at a big discount and sell them off cheaply, but I can't see an obvious solution that would help them.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Without the information about RTR production run volumes, it is difficult to gauge what sold strongly, what has stuck. Very visible discounting a couple of years after first release of a model that has sold 30,000 units is a different thing from a rapid sell out, but only on 3,000 units. The manufacturers know for certain and don't tell; they have a competitive position to protect. Best gauge is the largest box-shifter: their business method is relatively easily divined. Whatever they put up at significant discount is clearly 'sticking' to some extent: time to realise the stock for cash at or near cost, to free the capital for investment in the new releases that should sell at full retail. But there is no clue to volume they moved at whatever had been the prevailing full price...

 

I do wonder about saturation of the market. A good few years past, a retailer remarked to me that he hoped to be retired when 'all this lovely stuff' started reappearing second hand in quantity. At that time the Bachmann mk1 coaches and 16T minerals, and Hornby's Pullman coaches were whistling off the shelves, along with newly available locos in 'better than ever before' quality like the 9F and Britannia.

 

The only way out of this hole is new model subjects, for so long as there is enough of a market to purchase such items. These fingers firmly crossed that the purchasers are there in the required numbers, so that we can have broader coverage in model form of the UK's very diverse railway history.

[PrestburyJack]

The malachite versions in particular are apparently the same green as the BR versions rather than being a lighter/brighter green, which may have put some people off.

 

I'd echo that, it put me off as I was hoping that Hornby would correct the shade used. Whatever you say about Malachite, and I agree that no 2 people will agree on what shade/colour it should be, I think we all agree that it isn't the same as BR Green...

[Oldddudders]

Unfortunately, the OP's example is a corridor 1st. P-lease - how many modellers need a lot of those? BCKs, brake thirds, maybe even CKs - all of these have a place in the modest-length trains most 4mm modellers have the space for. If, as is commonly suspected, Hornby ordered equal numbers of each type of coach, guess which is now littering the remaindered shelf? I think I have nearly 50 Hornby Maunsells in 3 of the 4 liveries - no more than 1, maybe 2, are FKs.

[brushman47544]

Unfortunately, the OP's example is a corridor 1st. P-lease - how many modellers need a lot of those? BCKs, brake thirds, maybe even CKs - all of these have a place in the modest-length trains most 4mm modellers have the space for. If, as is commonly suspected, Hornby ordered equal numbers of each type of coach, guess which is now littering the remaindered shelf? I think I have nearly 50 Hornby Maunsells in 3 of the 4 liveries - no more than 1, maybe 2, are FKs.

 

I agree with you - I have quite a lot fewer Maunsells than you and no FKs, but to be fair to Hornby it has produced only one variant of the FK but lots of the other types (in BR green at least), so would seem to have made some allowance for this disparity.

[45568]

Surprisingly enough, I feel Bachmann may be making a similar mistake with their yet to be released LMS Porthole stock.  Look at the mix, BFK ,FO...not most common in a range of stock that was less than common? Why only C/Cream, a mix of BR maroon would be nice, we are not all going to live to the next release date!

 Hornby did blow it with their Stanier range IMHO, not least being the dreadful matt finish of the BR maroon, the C/C being slightly better and responding to a coat of Klear, even here in Oz!  As everyone said at the time, where is the 60ft. Comp., and in my case, the 57ft open 2/3rd? Excursions here we come?

 The Maunsells and Hawksworths were really an overload of goodies, the C/C Maunsells were never going to be popular given the SR attitude to repaints. Both are examples of the finest RTR 4mm coach for the price in my opinion. They follow these up with Thompson/Gresley non-corridor stock.. this is heaven!

 Now, well,  I guess we'll see..?

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

[davidw]

Surprisingly enough, I feel Bachmann may be making a similar mistake with their yet to be released LMS Porthole stock.  Look at the mix, BFK ,FO...not most common in a range of stock that was less than common? Why only C/Cream, a mix of BR maroon would be nice, we are not all going to live to the next release date!

 Hornby did blow it with their Stanier range IMHO, not least being the dreadful matt finish of the BR maroon, the C/C being slightly better and responding to a coat of Klear, even here in Oz!  As everyone said at the time, where is the 60ft. Comp., and in my case, the 57ft open 2/3rd? Excursions here we come?

 The Maunsells and Hawksworths were really an overload of goodies, the C/C Maunsells were never going to be popular given the SR attitude to repaints. Both are examples of the finest RTR 4mm coach for the price in my opinion. They follow these up with Thompson/Gresley non-corridor stock.. this is heaven!

 Now, well,  I guess we'll see..?

Cheers from Oz,

Peter C.

I've heard on good authority that maroon Portholes will be done. A few in a mixed rake would suit me. 

[Fenman]

... I do wonder about saturation of the market. ...

 

Me too. A pattern I've noticed with a few Hornby loco releases is that a first successful batch is quickly followed by a second wave at the same time as a third batch is announced, but the third batch then gets buried or delayed - the Q1 and the Schools both went through this, long before the production problems that seem to have affected delivery of more recent models and therefore confused the picture. The lovely Q1 is only just re-emerging from hibernation.

 

I'd also echo the unhappiness with the Hornby Staniers although, in the several years since they were released, subsequent designs of carriage have been better balanced in the choice of prototype (as well as, generally, being better models).

 

Paul

[John M Upton]

The infamous for its short supply with accompanying mad scramble and wailing that followed Hornby 2-BIL.  Today I saw Gaugemaster at the Brighton show selling them off for just £69.95, they were going for twice that on Ebay at one point,

 

How the mighty have fallen...

[APOLLO]

Bachman also overdid the firsts.

 

Here are some bargains, though you will only need one or two

 

http://www.ehattons.com/32756/Bachmann_Branchline_39_333A_BR_Mk2_FK_First_Corridor_in_BR_Green_/StockDetail.aspx

 

http://www.ehattons.com/10215/Bachmann_Branchline_39_401_BR_MK2S_BFK_brake_corridor_1st_Intercity_blue_grey/StockDetail.aspx

 

There are a few others also, difficult to make a realistic train of em though !!

 

Brit15

[Kenton]

As someone who owns not a single coach of any description (I do not count DMUs) I think it is all down to folk being fickle in what they buy. Just because Hornby and the other manufacturers seem to think we all want a particular loco/coach/wagon in a particular livery at a particular time doesn't mean that we actually do.

 

It is a bit like they are trying to dictate to us what to model - a sort of fashion (GWR is so passé, SR is the new black. Everyone needs at least one Ivatt) Well I don't do that, I model what I want and when I want it and that certainly doesn't mean paying RRP for anything RTR.

[The Bigbee Line]

001.JPG Despite the supply shortages some items like the Hornby Maunsell malachite green corridor 1st, the Pullmans and the Bachmann BR SR Mk1s, 411 and 416 EMUs have failed to sell at local model shops where they are being offered for sale at the recommended retail prices. This applies particularly to items that Hattons  are heavily discounting like the Hornby Pullmans. These have a list price of £49.99 but Hattons are offering them for £25.

Three Corridor Firsts could form 50% of a 6-CITY electric Multiple unit.  Just 2 Motor Brake Thirds and a Pullman Kitchen Compo to build.  Any takers....

[TheSignalEngineer]

Unfortunately, the OP's example is a corridor 1st. P-lease - how many modellers need a lot of those? BCKs, brake thirds, maybe even CKs - all of these have a place in the modest-length trains most 4mm modellers have the space for. If, as is commonly suspected, Hornby ordered equal numbers of each type of coach, guess which is now littering the remaindered shelf? I think I have nearly 50 Hornby Maunsells in 3 of the 4 liveries - no more than 1, maybe 2, are FKs.

My Southern Region through service needs 7 coaches maximum, BSK/CK/BSK for one portion, BSK/BCK for the other and a loose SO or two for strengthening. I haven't got an all-First in any of my other rakes, the only possibility being if I change the two CKs in one set to an FK and SK.

[Adrian Wintle]

My Southern Region through service needs 7 coaches maximum, BSK/CK/BSK for one portion, BSK/BCK for the other and a loose SO or two for strengthening. I haven't got an all-First in any of my other rakes, the only possibility being if I change the two CKs in one set to an FK and SK.

 

Fortunately, the Bournemouth-Cardiff working was diagrammed for (in 1938) BTK-TK-FK-TK-BTK (all SR stock), so I do have use for an all-First, with a GWR loco on point...

 

Adrian

[Sasquatch]

As regards marketing RTR electric locos and EMUs. I'm sure most modelers have at least one rogue loco in their collections if not for a change more than anything. Mine's a Q1!
Question is how many modelers will want to run a class 85 without the overhead or a 2BIL without the juice rail! As we all demand more realism producing these items is a bit risky wouldn't you say.
As for the coaches I think that most modelers have smaller layouts judging from what one sees on here. For that fact alone I would ask in any survey "how big is your layout" as the first thing in any compressed situation to get trimmed would be a full first! Even with space (only recently I should add) Full firsts only account for 4% of my coaching stock, compared to 20% of manufacturers output. Hornby could have sold far more brake third 61'6" Gresleys than the full firsts.

Shaun

[Robin Brasher]

As regards marketing RTR electric locos and EMUs. I'm sure most modelers have at least one rogue loco in their collections if not for a change more than anything. Mine's a Q1!

Question is how many modelers will want to run a class 85 without the overhead or a 2BIL without the juice rail! As we all demand more realism producing these items is a bit risky wouldn't you say.

As for the coaches I think that most modelers have smaller layouts judging from what one sees on here. For that fact alone I would ask in any survey "how big is your layout" as the first thing in any compressed situation to get trimmed would be a full first! Even with space (only recently I should add) Full firsts only account for 4% of my coaching stock, compared to 20% of manufacturers output. Hornby could have sold far more brake third 61'6" Gresleys than the full firsts.

 

Shaun

There are some good points in this post. One of the reasons I chose to model the Swanage Railway was that it did not have a third rail. Many electric locomotives and DMUs seem to be available with big discounts. In the past electric locomotives have been good investments. Examples are the Hornby-Dublo class AL! overhead electric and class 501 suburban EMU which are worth over £500 mint and boxed. In the late 1960s Hattons were selling the class 501 for about £2 each. I have not noticed any problems with using overhead wires on Continental layouts so perhaps people could use Continental overhead wires on British layouts.

[Jenny Emily]

I just run my class 85 double headed behind a class 45 as a diversion away from the wires. Easy.

[rob D2]

I'm alarmed that a lot of the " bar gains " are innovative items from Bachmann.

IE the 3 rd rail Emus and class 85 overheads....I'd hate to think their entry into these markets hasn't been a success...I wish I could model all aspects of the uk railway .

[Robin Brasher]

My nearest model railway shop at a heritage railway station has still not sold about a dozen Hornby Pullmans, a couple of maroon Hornby observation cars, a Hornby malachite green corridor first and a Bachmann green corridor composite. Now the model rolling stock section is mainly occupied by railway jigsaws and they have moved the rolling stock to the top shelf. They are even less likely to sell them now because people will not easily be able to handle them before purchasing. Eventually the national supply of these items will go down, the price will go up and the shop will be able to sell them at the recommended retail price.

 

The only new model railway items I have seen there were the Hornby Maunsell Pull-Push sets that sold like hot cakes.

[kevinlms]

My nearest model railway shop at a heritage railway station has still not sold about a dozen Hornby Pullmans, a couple of maroon Hornby observation cars, a Hornby malachite green corridor first and a Bachmann green corridor composite. Now the model rolling stock section is mainly occupied by railway jigsaws and they have moved the rolling stock to the top shelf. They are even less likely to sell them now because people will not easily be able to handle them before purchasing. Eventually the national supply of these items will go down, the price will go up and the shop will be able to sell them at the recommended retail price.

 

The only new model railway items I have seen there were the Hornby Maunsell Pull-Push sets that sold like hot cakes.

Don't know where this heritage railway is located, but such a railway needs to consider exactly what models to have available for sale. The best preference would be for items that feature on the line in question (especially limited runs). It would seem that GWR class 14XX tanks & Autocoaches, wouldn't sell well in Scotland, or North British items in South Wales.

[Robin Brasher]

It is the Swanage Railway. There have been a couple of changes in the management of the shop since the old stock was ordered. I think the present policy is just to buy locomotives and rolling stock that ran on the line. This has been successful with the Maunsell Pull-Push sets that sold out within a week. In 2012 they had some Hornby train packs with the M7 and a Maunsell Pull-Push set. These took about 5 months to sell. It does not always work because one item that has been on the shelves for a long time is a Bachmann BR SR green Mk1 corridor composite with a carriage crest which would have run on the Swanage Railway on the Royal Wessex. Until the prototype sets were split this was the only Southern Region train to carry carriage crests.