Hornby's Best Ever Models

[toboldlygo]

It's time to boldly go once more...

 

TBG's thread (from a few RmWeb versions & 10 years ago) is finally back!

[robmcg]

On 27/04/2019 at 17:27, Hroth said:

 

Not when the real thing might produce copious amounts of clag as depicted in your "bit of help"!

 

I remember my disappointment with the whispy, decorous puffs from a Triang synchro-smoke unit in a 3F tender loco...

(Definitely NOT one of "Hornbys" Best Ever Models!)

 

I recall the days of syncro-smoke and was unimpressed even then.

 

I DID like Hornby 3-rail and 2-rail, and Kitmaster, but my older brothers had friends with Fleischmann and Rivarossi models,  foreign muck I know, but I have recently bought a 1967 Rivarossi SNCF 231k Chapelon Pacific  ad although the motors on these are large and the wheels and motion a bit crude, they aren't half bad for moulded detail.

 

 

I have also bought a 232 U-1  and a Lilliput H0 Baden 1920s-30s 4-cylinder compound, and a very recent Jouef 241P in green.

 

Now that Hornby are intent on Coca Cola and other types of trainset (good on them) I feel quite grateful that we will still get to see things like this!

 

 

 

Edited May 1, 2019 by robmcg

[sncf231e]

You mention a RivaRossi 231K; I do not think RivaRossi ever made a 231K; they made the 231E (in brown Nord and green and black SNCF version) and in 0 gauge the 231G. Jouef made a 231K (and a 232U, and more...):

RivaRossi 231E

 

Jouef 231K:

 

RivaRossi 231G in 0 gauge

 

Regards

Fred

[robmcg]

Quite right, my apologies, the engine in my photo was a tender drive Jouef 231k. Not Rivarossi. 

 

I have four engines 'out' on my diorama right now including two 231e (Nord and SNCF) models and got confused...   pretty normal for me! 

 

That's a very impressive 0 gauge Rivarossi 231G, I must say.

 

The old Jouef 241p is very nice but the new version is astonishingly good!  I have just bought a green version to go with this black one.  I hope to do a nice pic sometime soon of a 231 in black with the 'Fleche d'Or' as per this Stephenon pic shown below the 241p

 

 

 

 

cheers

Edited May 3, 2019 by robmcg

[railroadbill]

On 27/04/2019 at 04:15, robmcg said:

Prices for models of Rivarossi and other Big Boy locos seem much higher now than they were a couple of years ago. There was a factory-weathered Big Boy 4014 I think,which I thought very good, but was panned by critics at the time, 1990s I think. I paid about UKP150  unboxed about 4 years ago.  Sold on now.

 

Made a nice pic, with a bit of help from me...

 

 

Came with RP25 wheels, can motor,  who needs sound and smoke and other gimmicks?

 

edited pics

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Following on from Rob's excellent Big Boy pics, here's a youtube video of a test run  of the newly restored one.

[railroadbill]

 

And another one of 4014.

 

Hear that lonesome whistle moan!

Edited May 4, 2019 by railroadbill

[sncf231e]

20 hours ago, robmcg said:

 

The old Jouef 241p is very nice but the new version is astonishingly good!  I have just bought a green version to go with this black one. 

 

cheers

The new Jouef 241P is indeed very nice; I have one to run with a Mistral train by LS Models:

 

Regards

Fred

Edited May 4, 2019 by sncf231e

[railroadbill]

That Mistral coach looks  nice, the handles on the compartment doors are very realistic!

 

I went into Hamleys in London last week, hadn't been there for years. They had quite a lot of Hornby locos (no other makes) and a lot of scalextric.  They did have a Jouef 241P in a cabinet together with a TGV, both did look very good.

 

From Hornby website:

https://www.Hornby.com/uk-en/shop/brands/jouef-h0-1-87/jouef-h0-1-87-steam-locomotive-241-p-tender-34-p-sncf.html

[robmcg]

A couple of stills from the Yotube clips of 4014....  what an engine!  I hope the Hornby version lives up to it.  And thanks Railroad Bill for the links.

 

 

 

edit just added some ore from other clips here, what an engine!   

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

A final pic for today!  Magnificent! How can one not buy a Hornby version?

 

 

 

Edited May 5, 2019 by robmcg
add photos

[toboldlygo]

Time for a semblance of sanity and normal steam loco's that aren't compensating for certain inadequacies   

 

 

[railroadbill]

Re the Big Boy, melmerby posted a link on the engine shed thread to the schedules for the current run with 4014 from Cheyenne to Ogden, Utah.  Also, there's some incredible footage on twitter, much longer videos on youtube of the first run on May 4th.  4014 is running with another UP loco, 844  a 4-8-4 so the 2 locos running together is really spectacular....

 

 

*This is being covered very well on the "US & canadian railroads"  thread. Lots of current video content.

Edited May 5, 2019 by railroadbill

[robmcg]

7 hours ago, toboldlygo said:

Time for a semblance of sanity and normal steam loco's that aren't compensating for certain inadequacies   

 

 

 

 

 

With all due respect when you had to move 8,000-ton freight trains over the longer grades of the mid-west US in the middle of a world war you didn't do it with Castles or Kings. US engine design was brilliant in those days, I don't know where 'inadequacy' comes into it. 

 

maybe I'm missing something...    nothing new there of course.

 

But I intend to illustrate some more French compound engines as soon as I get the chance, so it's all academic...

[Hroth]

6 hours ago, robmcg said:

 

With all due respect when you had to move 8,000-ton freight trains over the longer grades of the mid-west US in the middle of a world war you didn't do it with Castles or Kings. US engine design was brilliant in those days, I don't know where 'inadequacy' comes into it. 

 

maybe I'm missing something...    nothing new there of course.

 

But I intend to illustrate some more French compound engines as soon as I get the chance, so it's all academic...

I think tbg had his tongue fairly in cheek there...  And if you want to shift 8,000 tons of freight, what's wrong with using 20 or so Midland 4Fs? 

 

As for the French Fancies, are there any without the excessively untidy external plumbing???

[railroadbill]

 

A blast from the past, original Jouef models.  An ad in Model Railway Constructor, Feb 1974. 

Current versions of the 241P and 141R are on the Hornby website shop pages.

[toboldlygo]

3 hours ago, Hroth said:

I think tbg had his tongue fairly in cheek there...  And if you want to shift 8,000 tons of freight, what's wrong with using 20 or so Midland 4Fs? 

 

As for the French Fancies, are there any without the excessively untidy external plumbing???

 

Why 20 or so Midland 4F's? Wouldn't 10 or 11 LMS Garratts do the trick 

 

French Fancies? Aren't they made by Mr Kipling 

[railroadbill]

18 minutes ago, toboldlygo said:

 

Why 20 or so Midland 4F's? Wouldn't 10 or 11 LMS Garratts do the trick 

 

French Fancies? Aren't they made by Mr Kipling 

Do you like kipling?   

Don't know, I've never kipeled.

[Hroth]

But there are more 4Fs available, and Hornby do 'em, unlike the Garretts.

 

As for the Fancies (spoken in an exceedingly plummy voice), Mr Kiplings are exceedingly fine cakes! 

[sncf231e]

4 hours ago, Hroth said:

 

 

As for the French Fancies, are there any without the excessively untidy external plumbing???

Of course there are:

Nord Super Pacific:

Etat Pacific:

SNCF 232R:

 

Regards

Fred

[Hroth]

I like the Nord one, rather a "Stratford Shed" livery?  All it needs is its number in big white numerals above the drivers...

 

They all look a bit "Flash Gordon" too, as if Raymond Lowey had a hand in their styling!

 

Edited May 6, 2019 by Hroth
euphony

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

6 hours ago, Hroth said:

... if you want to shift 8,000 tons of freight, what's wrong with using 20 or so Midland 4Fs? ...

The thirty 'Big Berthas' required to work in three relay teams of ten to assist such a train going up Sherman Hill...

[Hroth]

20-heading 4Fs, wasn't quite what I had in mind, though such a monstrosity would go down in the annals of Railway History.

 

lesseeeee....  You'd need about 670 wagons, and 30 odd evenly spaced brakevans,  for safety, How long would that be? Then bankers at strategic points, and then the nightmare of assembling and disposing the train... 

 

Best send it all by road

 

 

[railroadbill]

OK. A Big Boy  has a TE of  135.375lbs.   A 9F (seems a good choice) has a TE of 39,670.    Therefore a BB can pull 3.4 times a 9F, so four  9Fs per Big Boy should leave plenty in reserve.

 

Alternatively,  an A2 pacific has a TE of 40,430, more than a 9F,   so 4 of those per BB would be effective.

 

Sorted.

[TravisM]

I think making a comparison between a 4-8-8-4 “Big Boy”, 2-10-0 9F or a 4-6-2 A2 is not just tractive effort but stopping power as well.  You have to remember that a fully laden 4000 tipped the scales at over 500 tons and rarely exceeded 40mph, so it’s not just getting the train moving but stopping.

Edited May 6, 2019 by jools1959

[Hroth]

27 minutes ago, railroadbill said:

OK. A Big Boy  has a TE of  135.375lbs.   A 9F (seems a good choice) has a TE of 39,670.    Therefore a BB can pull 3.4 times a 9F, so four  9Fs per Big Boy should leave plenty in reserve.

 

Alternatively,  an A2 pacific has a TE of 40,430, more than a 9F,   so 4 of those per BB would be effective.

 

Sorted.

But a 9F is mid-50s, so its a bit anachronistic.

I could have specified some 2-8-0s like 8Fs or 28xxs, or 02s if we wanted a bit of sanity, but who would want that.....

 

As for A2s, wheelslip in perfect harmony!  They'd never get the train started!

 

20 minutes ago, jools1959 said:

so it’s not just getting the train moving but stopping.

 

Hence all the brakevans.  Now if all UK goods stock had been forced to be fitted at the same time as passenger stock, stopping wouldn't be as much of a problem.

[railroadbill]

Well, 4014  was taken out of service in December 1961 so I guess any UK steam loco could be used for this vital and plausible comparison...I was being slightly tongue in cheek of course....

 

But this raises some interesting points...

1. Slow speed of most UK goods trains in steam era.  in the UK freight lost out by most wagons not having fitted brakes on so higher speeds weren't possible.  Then there was Ernest Marples and ... the lorry!

2. Limit to train lengths by lengths of sidings, passing loops etc.  Gresley found this was a problem with the P1 2-8-2 goods locos (1925) where they could pull 100 wagon coal trains which were too long for some loops and caused track circuiting problems.

 

Nowadays:  according to Realtime trains website,  freightliner trains of containers, class 66 hauled, are rated at 1235 tonnes at 75 mph.