Sound for the Masses

[Chris M]

I recently started a new thread  with a link to my video of N gauge sound and Randall has suggested I post the link here as well. On my layout trains merely pass through and do not stop which makes adding sound very easy. I have a speaker under the layout (which is only 7 ft long) connected to my iphone where i have various sounds. I just select the correct sound for the train and hit play just before it enters the scenic section. I made sound files to suit from recordings using audacity to chop, lengthen etc.

 

https://youtu.be/RziX8qmiPiY

 

Meanwhile out in the garden where the stock is of course much larger I have dropped a reasonable bluetooth speaker in the first wagon to give me real whistles. The chuffing sound is from a mylocosound chip fitted to the loco. Power is dc track power. I quite like this but have to exercise restraint as I do like to speak with the neighbours. Since the video I have made the load a little higher to hide the speaker.

 

https://youtu.be/98K-rKGwstk

[Chris M]

I have just obtained a new Farish Castle and luckily have some Castle recordings already. I think these will give me a good start point for sounds to go with the Castle either climbing or running at speed. If anyone else wants to use them the videos are on youtube and you are welcome to download them to use the sound.

[media]https://youtu.be/HQBmUIhZOBM[/media]

[media]https://youtu.be/9-tG2CuS_Bg[/media]

Edited May 22, 2017 by Chris M

[RandyWales]

Hi Chris...

Thanks for posting here too...Superb videos and far better than my feeble attempts to get the message across about this alternative to DCC sound.

I must also say that you've also motivated me to get off my ar5e and sell all my 4mm stock and replace it with N gauge.

The sight and sound of those Hydraulics powering through is inspirational.

You could possibly find suitable sounds of locos/trains drawing to a halt at the signal box, and then powering away again.

It is so easy to control sound and movement separately in this context.

Randall

Edited May 17, 2017 by RandyWales

[RandyWales]

Chris...

Hope you don't mind me reposting your links embedded like this...

 

 

[dpgibbons]

Surely the missing element here is a smartphone/tablet throttle (eg the Engine Driver app) with a simple physics engine underneath that can drive both the loco and the sound effects in the manner of a train simulator.

[Chris M]

Here are my Castle recordings modified to fit the layout. Sorry the sound quality isn't great, thats down to the ipad not the actual sound.

 

https://youtu.be/dRSXiLv4sFE

Edited May 22, 2017 by Chris M

[Chris M]

I'm now using an app called soundcue lite £4.99 to fire my sounds.

 

[RandyWales]

Hi Chris...

The Castle footage is great...thanks for posting.

I've also checked out Sound Cue on the app store....

Seems to be more limited in scope than Soundbyte although if it does all you need then great.

I'm still looking for an app with which I can set up playlists - a few can - but what I need is an app that can crossfade playlisted sounds.

The ones I've found have an audible gap of about .5 sec before the next track starts.

I am trying to achieve seemless layering of samples so I can set up a playlist that can handle (for example) idle-start-accelerate-level off by touching a single button. Then a second button to play samples for slow down to idle and stop.

I can do it manually in Soundbyte but if I could find an app to do it automatically then the possibilites are limitless.

I have set up single buttons which play back tracks I have recorded from source samples but it takes a lot of work in Audacity.

My objective is to set up playlists for shunting and and arrivals/departures rather than continuous runs like yours.

I'm happy enough at the moment because it is sooooo cheap!

For anyone else reading this for the first time, I do have to control sounds and movement separately but it's easy...

Randall

Edited May 23, 2017 by RandyWales

[clickertyclack]

Hi Randall,

  Only just noticed your last post in this thread. As you know, I use a pc based sampler for my train sounds which got me thinking after reading yours above, if something similar would be available as an app for iphone/ipad. Came up with this which might just be what you are looking for.

 

http://appcrawlr.com/ios/ipro-djsampler#authors-description

 

 

I think it will give you more control over sounds and eliminate any audible gaps. Its free so worth a try.

 

Clickertyclack

Edited May 29, 2017 by clickertyclack

[RandyWales]

Hi Randall,

  Only just noticed your last post in this thread. As you know, I use a pc based sampler for my train sounds which got me thinking after reading yours above, if something similar would be available as an app for iphone/ipad. Came up with this which might just be what you are looking for.

 

http://appcrawlr.com/ios/ipro-djsampler#authors-description

 

 

I think it will give you more control over sounds and eliminate any audible gaps. Its free so worth a try.

 

Clickertyclack

Hi CC...

I downloaded the iPro.DJsampler and gave it a bit of a test.

Unfortunately, it's not really suitable for my needs besides being fairly complex for this form of use.

You did prompt me, however, to search the Apple Store for similar apps which despite some promising leads I drew a blank.

However, I'm still very happy using Soundbyte for now.

There are gurglings of interest in Bluetooth sound on the Modern O Gauge Facebook group (membership has to be approved by the Admin).

It would appear that it's perfect for using in Radio Controlled locos.

Randall

[Ruston]

Hi again...

 

Making a start then....

The application genre is called a 'Cart Machine' (with it's history in Radio Production apparently).... and was originally hardware-based, where the sounds were held on CART-ridges.

 

'Carts' are intended for use by DJ's, Radio and Podcast producers and Stadium 'goal celebration' soundbites amongst other things.

 

 

It will be obvious there is no connection between Sound and Motion.

You therefore have to drive the train to match the sounds that you hear.

That may not seem attractive and a massive pitfall to many, but that's not how it feels...

 

Besides, many chip programmers have you do exactly the same by pressing function buttons.

 

You have a tremendous amount of control over the sounds produced, and on a small layout, which may not justify expenditure on soundchips, this is a worthy option.

 

Randall...

I have just found this topic and have read through it. I won't pretend to understand anything of the technical side of it but if there is no connection between sound and motion in the loco, does this mean that as you accelerate the loco with your normal DC or DCC controller you also have to press a key on the ipad to give a sound to match? And the same with slowing down, stopping etc?

[RandyWales]

I have just found this topic and have read through it. I won't pretend to understand anything of the technical side of it but if there is no connection between sound and motion in the loco, does this mean that as you accelerate the loco with your normal DC or DCC controller you also have to press a key on the ipad to give a sound to match? And the same with slowing down, stopping etc?

Hi Ruston...

You are more or less correct...but I tend to flip what you've said on it's head and start the sound before adjusting the controller.

 

I'll try to explain...(my Bluetooth speakers are onboard so it's similar to a soundchipped loco).

On my end to end 7mm layout, I don't need sounds of a loco/train running at high speed (althouugh I do have sounds compatible with high speed running for use at the club).

 

I've therefore concentrated on creating arrival and departure sounds along with sounds for when the loco is stationary.

 

I also have many complimentary sounds - which can be played anytime - horn or whistle, flange squeal or brake sounds such as the release of air, or sleeper creak etc. These sounds are assigned to individual buttons and vary insomuch they can be triggered for 'play-to-end' or 'looped'.

 

Nowadays, I create dedicated short soundtracks for the particular movement I want to perform.

 

For example, I have edited a soundtrack that lasts for the time it takes for the loco/train to exit the scenic section and reach the fiddle yard (with an appropriately long ACTUAL fade - with maybe a horn sound in the distance).

 

Thus....

Loco is idling away merrily...this sound is looped.

The appropriate soundtrack will always start with a short section of the loco idling so the transition is seemless.

 

So assume the loco is idling...I start the move by pressing the button for the soundtrack I want to play, and listen for the engine sound to change. I don't increase the controller yet...I maybe press a second button to trigger the horn, and a third button to trigger the brake release (Pedants could incorporate these into a single button). I then wait until the power kicks in before starting to increase the controller setting to start the model loco moving. On the real thing, there is always a delay between the driver applying power and the loco starting to move...I replicate this whenever possible. The soundtrack goes through it's power thrash and I rarely have to change the controller setting in the short distance that consists the scenic section of the layout.

 

For movements that don't exit the scenic section, I have edited sounds that mimic the engine dropping to idle from several different engine speeds so I wait for the engine speed to drop and simply trigger the ’engine idle' sound button.

 

The loco is still moving at your predetermined speed setting and I only change the controller when bringing the loco to a halt.

 

It is all pretty intuitive to be honest.

 

For an arrival, the loco is generally idling at low tickover speed anyway, so I wait until the loco is nearly at the point where I want to stop it, and I simply press the 'Brake sound' button. I turn down the controller to bring the loco to a stop in sync with the brake application.

 

It really is that simple.

 

One other thing to be aware of...

Bluetooth audio devices can only be paired with a single control device.

 

Basically, one engine in steam.

 

I could also use SWMBO's iPad running a second copy of Soundbyte if necessary.

 

However, I sometimes use a cheap, old phone with bluetooth capability that only has an app with a couple of buttons to playback idling sounds for a stationary loco in the yard.

 

Finally, the sounds are high quality through good speakers - a far cheaper alternative to mega-expensive (and to my mind inferior-sounding) soundchips, especially in 7mm.

 

I have installed bluetooth into a 4mm loco as seen earlier in the thread - more of a challenge admittedly.

That's why I prefer running 4mm trains in sync with soundtracks played back through OFFBOARD speakers.

 

I hope that helps....it's taken a lot longer to put into words..

Randall

[Ruston]

Thanks for explaining it. I think I'll stick with sound chips, even though they are more expensive, because I'd rather drive the loco as I want, or need to, and have the sound follow what the loco is doing automatically, rather than having to drive to match the sound and also have to press buttons on an extra piece of control equipment.

[RandyWales]

Thanks for explaining it. I think I'll stick with sound chips, even though they are more expensive, because I'd rather drive the loco as I want, or need to, and have the sound follow what the loco is doing automatically, rather than having to drive to match the sound and also have to press buttons on an extra piece of control equipment.

Hi Ruston...

A fair enough reason.

However, it is far harder to explain in words how this method works than it actually is in practice.

 

On the occasions I have demonstrated this alternative to other modellers, there have been people who have stood there open-mouthed at the simplicity and effectiveness. And cost.

 

Bear in mind that soundchip sounds are fixed. No matter what you do, it will sound the same.

I can perform the same movement several times with subtle or even major differences.

 

I'd go as far as to say I could do a blind head to head test with any DCC loco and be confident that I'd win.

 

There is also the matter of versatility...Chris M has achieved excellent results in N gauge using non-dcc sounds.

 

I've put this forward as an alternative on the grounds of cost...to explain to people that they don't have to spend mega-money.

 

You don't even have be an expert in editing sounds....you could even stream sounds direct from Youtube.

 

Only the other day, a modeller who saw this for the first time said it was his dream to have Sound in his radio controlled fleet - he was absolutely over the moon to think he could do it so cheaply.

 

Randall

[BG John]

It shouldn't be difficult to trigger the sounds automatically with trackside sensors. I'm slowly getting into using Arduinos for just about everything electrical on my layouts at the moment, including radio control. They could control sound from the track sensors. The RC system I'm hoping to use uses transceivers, so the loco could also transmit information that could be used to trigger the right sound. To get the variety Randall mentioned, different sounds could be played randomly in response to a particular event. It could all be linked to ambient sounds too. It could become complicated, but DCC and sound seems to pretty much double the price of every loco, while adding the RC system and bluetooth sound costs peanuts in comparison. The RC should cost under a tenner, but I haven't looked at the cost of bluetooth sound. That's a potential saving running into many many hundreds, or even thousands, of pounds, which is a pretty good incentive for learning how to do it!

[Phill Dyson (onslaught832)]

a tle footage is great...thanks for posting.

I've also checked out Sound Cue on the app store....

Seems to be more limited in scope than Soundbyte although if it does all you need then great.

I'm still looking for an app with which I can set up playlists - a few can - but what I need is an app that can crossfade playlisted sounds.

The ones I've found have an audible gap of about .5 sec before the next track starts.

I am trying to achieve seemless layering of samples so I can set up a playlist that can handle (for example) idle-start-accelerate-level off by touching a single button. Then a second button to play samples for slow down to idle and stop.

I can do it manually in Soundbyte but if I could find an app to do it automatically then the possibilites are limitless.

I have set up single buttons which play back tracks I have recorded from source samples but it takes a lot of work in Audacity.

My objective is to set up playlists for shunting and and arrivals/departures rather than continuous runs like yours.

I'm happy enough at the moment because it is sooooo cheap!

For anyone else reading this for the first time, I do have to control sounds and movement separately but it's easy...

Randall

Hi Randy, 

 

If you are still in search of a App that does all these you should try 'Custom Soundboard' which is completely free & would seem to do most if not all that you require.....

 

 

 

 

The only down side is you get a add between selecting soundboards for a couple of seconds .

[Phill Dyson (onslaught832)]

BTW all the sounds can be looped or set to be playable over.........so no gaps! 

[RandyWales]

Hi Phill...

Thanks for posting...hopefully your involvement will encourage a few more members to take a closer look.

 

Would you mind posting your clip of D815 Druid here? - the one powering through the cutting and tunnel in your garden - to give a sense of what is possible?

 

I'll give that app a try...that's one of the Android apps isn't it?

The buttons have a lot more space for text descriptions of their function.

I could also use that for station announcements/ clattering of trollies and other railway related sounds - sent to under board speakers.

 

Randall

[Phill Dyson (onslaught832)]

Hi Phill...

Thanks for posting...hopefully your involvement will encourage a few more members to take a closer look.

 

Would you mind posting your clip of D815 Druid here? - the one powering through the cutting and tunnel in your garden - to give a sense of what is possible?

 

I'll give that app a try...that's one of the Android apps isn't it?

The buttons have a lot more space for text descriptions of their function.

I could also use that for station announcements/ clattering of trollies and other railway related sounds - sent to under board speakers.

 

Randall

Hi Randall,

 

I too hope we get more people dabbling in the wonderful world of DCC soundchip free sound, as you know mine is working out at a incredible £15 per loco .

 

The App is android, mine is controlled from my Samsung S6 phone.

 

You can also adjust the size of the buttons on 'Custom Soundboard' too to suite your own preferences or the number of buttons you require on the screen at any one time.

 

Here is my film of Druid in the garden you requested......

 

[Chris M]

Excellent work Phill

[Phill Dyson (onslaught832)]

If Randy or anyone else wish to download the app, the correct version has this logo .......

 

 

 

[Phill Dyson (onslaught832)]

Excellent work Phill

Hi Chris,

 

I love your 'Little Aller Junction' layout , it was the one  I returned to again & again at last years Warley show. Your under board Bluetooth speaker has truly added a whole new dimension to the layout for me........simply superb ! 

Edited June 13, 2017 by Phill Dyson (onslaught832)

[Chris M]

Hi Chris,

 

I love your 'Little Aller Junction' layout , it was the one's  I returned to again & again at last years Warley show. Your under board Bluetooth speaker has truly added a whole new dimension to the layout for me........simply superb !

 

Thanks Phill

I've moved forward since Warley in a few ways. I now have a bigger and more powerful speaker and I have installed a thunderstorm which uses the same speaker. I also have cow, sheep and bird sounds on my phone to play through the speaker which seems to down well with the very young if not my fellow exhibitors. Little ones seem to really enjoy pressing the button for thunder and lightning, you wouldn't believe how well the thunder rattles around the average exhibition hall. I get lots of smiles from the paying visitors.

[9FEd]

Just browsing this thread after having a similar idea myself - inspirational and genuine lateral thinking! I was prompted to consider alternatives after baulking at the cost of sound fitting a Graham Farish Midland Pullman, conventional DCC sound just seems like a highly expensive way to 'bake in' specific sounds vs using a Soundboard App to drive a bluetooth speaker.

 

@Chris M query to a fellow N gauge modeller, do you only use an under baseboard speaker? Have you experimented at all with 'deconstructing'  a mini bluetooth speaker that travels with the train in an item of rolling stock? 

 

@Phill Dyson (onslaught832) I also use Android; your app looks ideal. I note that licensing means it cannot auto rip sound files from YouTube, do you separately source and load in mp3 tracks? 

 

 

[Chris M]

5 hours ago, 9FEd said:

Just browsing this thread after having a similar idea myself - inspirational and genuine lateral thinking! I was prompted to consider alternatives after baulking at the cost of sound fitting a Graham Farish Midland Pullman, conventional DCC sound just seems like a highly expensive way to 'bake in' specific sounds vs using a Soundboard App to drive a bluetooth speaker.

 

@Chris M query to a fellow N gauge modeller, do you only use an under baseboard speaker? Have you experimented at all with 'deconstructing'  a mini bluetooth speaker that travels with the train in an item of rolling stock? 

 

@Phill Dyson (onslaught832) I also use Android; your app looks ideal. I note that licensing means it cannot auto rip sound files from YouTube, do you separately source and load in mp3 tracks? 

 

 

For me , putting a speaker into any N gauge or even 00 gauge model is a complete waste of time. The digitised sound may well be 100% accurate but it will never ever have the depth or bass required. It will never make the ground vibrate. It's the depth of the sound that is important to me. That's why I use a reasonably powerful speaker under the layout. If I use my 200 watt speaker I can feel the floor shaking under my feet which is great. Well it's great until others on the house express their opinion!

 

For US N Broadway imports do a rolling thunder which combines a speaker in the loco with a big speaker under the layout providing the depth or bass. I was impressed.