The Eagle has landed...

[Andy Reichert]

... because he is very focussed on operations and as such does the minimum amount of scenery he feels is necessary to facilitate such.

 

Dr GF, I love what you are doing and get even more of kick hearing that you are having a hoot whilst doing it.

 

I'm trying to negotiate with Mrs Clover atm on investing in a shed, our garden isn't the biggest, is an odd shape, and we have 'very' different opinions on how big a shed might be. She is thinking 6' x 4' whilst I am currently arguing for 16' x 8'. I'd settle for 12' x 6'. The next problem is how I would put in the base and insulate / line the shed feeling as I do atm. Think it will be a project for next spring / summer when I have finished negotiations and saved up the funds necessary.

 

TTFN

 

Chris

 

I'm one of the shrinking minority of railway modellers who think that operations and railway modelling are two different very different hobbies.

 

The latter was a both a challenge and a "street school" where I learned all the different basic technologies/techniques and some level of the needed skills necessary to actually create a working model, regardless of how accurate/beautiful it finally turned out. But the achievement(s) was the goal.

 

The former needs none of those things and seems to be only a race to be "up and running" in the shortest possible time, regardless of any other consideration. And so a whole new industry of expensive boxed RTR models has sprung up to support it. The difference between "operations" and "shopperations" is also a shrinking number.

 

Andy

[highpeak]

Interestingly in a recent issue of MRH publisher Joe Fugate was bemoaning the rise of the expensive RTR freight car as being the antithesis of what operators need, at least those who operate medium to large layouts. His theory was that expensive detail is a waste when the car is rolling along in a train or hidden on an inside track in a yard.

[Adrian Wintle]

Also on the work bench are a pair of SP SD40s which are part way through being decalled and modded into a pair of patched SD40M-2s, again as part of my on going attemot to model what I've seen or that I connect too.

 

Are those SD40s or SD45s? I know that CP ended up with some SD45-based SD40M-2s that came out of that modification program. I have the Kato model of one in N (Kato still calls it an SD45).

 

Adrian

[Parthia27]

Interestingly in a recent issue of MRH publisher Joe Fugate was bemoaning the rise of the expensive RTR freight car as being the antithesis of what operators need, at least those who operate medium to large layouts. His theory was that expensive detail is a waste when the car is rolling along in a train or hidden on an inside track in a yard.

 

If you are operating intensively and have to maintain a large fleet I agree entirely with what Joe is saying.

 

I do however think that on smaller layouts freight cars and locos are less likely to be 'lost' within a fleet of stock, they are more visible, and therefore require more detail.

 

I'm not sure any cars used regularly on a layout must be detailed to RPM standards, but the existence of scale draft gear, wheels, ladders and such does make a visual difference where cars stand out as is the case for locomotives used on such layouts.

 

My personal preference is to set a standard of detail which is consistent across all the elements of a layout which may evolve as the modeller has time to develop their theme.

 

Cheers

 

Chris

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Are those SD40s or SD45s? I know that CP ended up with some SD45-based SD40M-2s that came out of that modification program. I have the Kato model of one in N (Kato still calls it an SD45).

 

Adrian

 

They're SD40s.  

 

I was aiming to 'MK rebuild' my SD40T-2s as well, until I took one apart and found that all the 'changeable' bits had been glued in place.  So no short nose, no standard windscreens....Blast.  

 

Why did Athearn choose to make espees signature locomotive in its least usable form? That leaves me with getting hold of the KCS shells and a total repaint....

[highpeak]

Andy, I'm not sure we should be hi-jacking the Doctor's thread here, nor do I really see why there should be a divide between, for want of better terms, operators and modelers. The beauty of the hobby is that we can follow any number of paths as suits our tastes. Magazines cater to a wide range of those tastes, I think everybody ends up picking the ones that they feel comfortable with.

Joe Fugate has published (no idea if it was in MRH or just a predecessor blog) a pretty reasonable compromise approach to trackwork using CV components as a turnout jig. They may not be the ultimate in detail but can end up looking pretty decent without taking forever to build. I'm not sure why you are being so harsh here. You offer a good product and web site for those who want the ultimate in trackwork, no doubt Joe has decided his target audience doesn't skew that way.

I'm sure advertising revenue from the makers of those freight cars he was talking about is pretty significant for him, so he was being fairly candid in his remarks.

 

Meanwhile back to the good Doctor's endeavours: in post 143 you mentioned making up some placeholder buildings. I spent the last few days making some cardboard mockups of a group of buildings for my small layout (a U-shaped affair about 13 x 10). All of a sudden that end of the yard started to look like a railroad for all that the buildings were just white card. For a small investment of time your plan suddenly becomes much more real, and of course you can easily tweak heights/lengths etc till you are happy with the way it looks.

Of course, be aware of the way the temporary can linger longer than you think!

[Andy Reichert]

My

 

Andy, I'm not sure we should be hi-jacking the Doctor's thread here, nor do I really see why there should be a divide between, for want of better terms, operators and modelers. The beauty of the hobby is that we can follow any number of paths as suits our tastes. Magazines cater to a wide range of those tastes, I think everybody ends up picking the ones that they feel comfortable with.

Joe Fugate has published (no idea if it was in MRH or just a predecessor blog) a pretty reasonable compromise approach to trackwork using CV components as a turnout jig. They may not be the ultimate in detail but can end up looking pretty decent without taking forever to build. I'm not sure why you are being so harsh here. You offer a good product and web site for those who want the ultimate in trackwork, no doubt Joe has decided his target audience doesn't skew that way.

I'm sure advertising revenue from the makers of those freight cars he was talking about is pretty significant for him, so he was being fairly candid in his remarks.

 

Meanwhile back to the good Doctor's endeavours: in post 143 you mentioned making up some placeholder buildings. I spent the last few days making some cardboard mockups of a group of buildings for my small layout (a U-shaped affair about 13 x 10). All of a sudden that end of the yard started to look like a railroad for all that the buildings were just white card. For a small investment of time your plan suddenly becomes much more real, and of course you can easily tweak heights/lengths etc till you are happy with the way it looks.

Of course, be aware of the way the temporary can linger longer than you think!

 

My apologies to the good doctor, I was already concerned I was heading outside and off topic.

 

I shall start a new thread covering and answering the impacts of modifying CV turnouts shortly.

 

Andy

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

I've been running through some operations, using a variety of motive power.   The stand out at the moment is the Kato SD38-2, superb running qualities... and a looker, too.

 

 

I've still got to add ditch lights and mu cables, plus the missing grab rail on the battery box.  

 

I had a bit of fun updating the two Athearn SD40s to SD40M-2s, with speed lettering, UP patches, safety stripes on the sills and roof top a/c units,  Still got to change the number boards, plate over the class lights, add ditch lights, MU cables, rooftop aerials... they're more impressions than accurate replicas.  

 

 

 

In the end I ran most of the session with this beauty.  It has exactly the same lumpy gait as the prototype!  It even hunts like a two cylinder lok....

 

 

It manages the Cemex spur fine - although it looks super sharp, it's actually my tightest curve at 30 inch radius.  I'm sure DCC would sort out its running, it really needs a sack of momentum to make it totally convincing.  

 

Over the weekend I hope to start blocking out some buildings, and working out a proper operating scheme.  I'm not totally convinced by having separate facing and trailing spurs in the yard - it feels rather like two separate jobs, one to work trailing and one to work facing spurs.  Maybe that's as it should be.

Edited August 13, 2014 by Dr Gerbil-Fritters

[Prof Klyzlr]

Dear Dr,

 

 

 

 they're more impressions than accurate replicas.

 

...and you know what, for those of us who have more-than-a-passing-interest,-but-no-personal-connection/experience, they look great!

 

Proceed in Notch 8 good sir...

 

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Thanks Prof, that's great to know!

 

I sometimes feel a little intimidated by the uber-proto modellers.  Aspirational, but somehow also exhausting.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

A family portrait this afternoon....

 

 

and a couple of hours spent moving freight around with these two

 

 

 

The 'Jenkinsons' are back in their boxes now, and all the surplus EMDs too.  Normal service only requires a single unit, otherwise things get too crowded.  S'fun though.  I think I'll eventually settle on a SD38-2/SD40-2 for the UP, and a GP40 pair for the SP, and a GP38/GP30 pair for the BNSF.  These are all combos I've seen and enjoyed.  

Edited August 16, 2014 by Dr Gerbil-Fritters

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

A little ancient history.  

 

I came across this very early iteration of my US industrial railroading.

 

 

I wish I'd kept the modern steel clad structures on the right - would save me some time having to build new structures.... 

 

Nasty looking code 100 track, medium radius turnouts, a pair of red Alcos towing an intermodal.  What was I thinking?

[F-UnitMad]

a pair of red Alcos towing an intermodal.  What was I thinking?

 

 

Minnesota Commercial Railway...??

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

I notice that in the 15 years since that 'Minnesota Commercial' shot, my approach to scenery has remained - ahem - minimal.

 

Here's the results of a quick experiment this evening.  

 

 

 

I'm using Photoshop to assemble my own place-holder buildings from photographs of actual modern warehouses.  I've not got the print scale right yet, but the principle seems to work.  I shall use the same technique for roads too.

 

Key items may get a bit more attention than this.

[Prof Klyzlr]

Dear Dr,

 

 

 

 What was I thinking?

 

I don't know, but I wager you were having Fun,
(you know, that pleasurable feeling when things are "just right" and you are enjoying the activity you are engaged in),

 

and ain't no-one can ask for more than that...

 

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

 

PS I occasionally take a walk down "modelling memory lane". The pics aren't pretty, and some of the models are scary (in both fit-n-finish and theme),
but at-the-time they were "the best I could achieve", and the satisfaction at the time is a feeling easily recalled...
(Of course, being my models, I reserve the right to "feel uncomfy" with said model if/when I learn more about the prototype-in-question,
gain more skills which could result in a better effort,

and/or go forward "Aiming to Improve" on the next one...)

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Dear Dr,

 

 

I don't know, but I wager you were having Fun,

 

 

 

Up to a point, yes.  The trackwork offended my eye, and the track plan also - so those diminished the fun somewhat and have been corrected to some extent on the current version.  I did love those red Alcos, and regret repainting them into SP livery.

 

I find 'fun' in constant tension with 'knowledge', and the challenge is getting the balance right.  I'm finding the only way to sort those out is in the act of actually building and running a layout.  Lots of 'issues' I had in the pipe dreaming stage disappear on the reality of the physical pike,  

 

I still have a hankering for 'proto-freelancing', either red Alcos or more likely 2nd generation EMDs in faded grey (ex-KCS units) patched for the AZER

 

I'm also painfully aware that my shed is less than half the size it should be for a more convincing US style pike.  

 

Also, you should share some of your 'modelling memories'.  I wish I'd photographed more, but it was pre-digital days so not much was taken, and almost none of viewable quality.

 

But it's still a boatload of fun, as it is.

Edited August 20, 2014 by Dr Gerbil-Fritters

[Glorious NSE]

Regional Alco's on intermodal? You were just following the prototype...

http://www.rrdc.com/images/ph_iais1_lrg.jpg

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

One of my favourite paint schemes too, Martyn.

[Prof Klyzlr]

Dear Dr

 

 

 

But it's still a boatload of fun,

 

Um, a "Boatload"? Unless you're referring to a GE U-boat, I fear you may have your modes of transport mixed up... ;-)

 

Interesting your observation that "getting in and doing it" overcomes a armchair load of "but what if?"s, "I can't achieve that"s, and "but I haven't got enough (whatever)..."s...

 

Like the man said:

If not you, then who?
If not now, then when?

 

Happy Modelling,
Aim to Improve,
Prof Klyzlr

[Andy Reichert]

I've noticed that repetitive fun pales after a while, but challenging achievements stimulate interest in their problem solving and building stage and then rewarding satisfaction that lasts when done and stays even when looked back on from far in the future.

 

Andy

[F-UnitMad]

Ignore fun, and aim for enjoyment and satisfaction instead..

Interesting use of words... I certainly would understand "enjoyment" & "satisfaction" as having richer meaning and lasting longer than just "fun".

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

 relaxed and accommodating.

 

nobody could be more relaxed and accommodating than me.... 15 years with no layout, now that's relaxed!

 

satisfaction is a little trickier.  I find satisfaction hard to achieve, there's always something else to do, something different to try, and sometimes I have little interest in the whole thing.  So far on my latest escapade, building the benchwork has given me the most satisfaction - but that's done, so that feeling didn't last.  Laying the track was satisfying, but I never feel totally happy with it as the compromises forced on me by the realities of the shed space mitigates against the layout  I'd really like to build....

 

I get most satisfaction while I'm fully engaged in something constructive, and the least when it's actually finished.  So far, operating has been great - but it's still somewhat of a novelty. I get almost no pleasure from building any kind of scenery.  It just does nothing for me,  Modifying and weathering rolling stock is a bit of a mixed bag.  I find it somewhat satisfying some of the time, at others it drives me mad.  

 

But overall, its an absorbing hobby that gives me plenty of scope to enjoy a wide range of activities.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

Satisfaction...

 

A few evenings ago, I couldn't really get into the right mood to do anything constructive, so I took most of the stock off the layout, and all but one locomotive.  Ended up with 11 boxcars, and eight hoppers.  Then I spent about an hour, collecting all the cars from the various spurs where they'd ended up and using the main yard tracks I blocked them into set out order.  All the hoppers got blocked into three sets (three types of hopper in matching sets) and set out in the facing spur.  Then all the boxcars were blocked into logical groups - double doors, a solitary hicube, then the single doors and left parked on the trailing spur.  Then I parked the 824 on the tail track in the yard, and went in for dinner.

 

This morning I had a late start at work, so I wandered down to the shed to kill some time.  I fired up the 824, pulled the whole cut of pre-blocked boxcars from the yard, and then dealt the double doors into one track, the three GWS (including the hicube) into another track, and the remaining cars into the final clear track.  Then I rode the 824 light engine back to the yard, parked it on the tail track, shut it down and signed off for the day.

 

It felt very real somehow,.

 

Now that was satisfying. 

[LNER4479]

I have a collection of old railway modelling articles from B&W days and one of them (MRN I think from the 1960's - I can check the reference) is entitled 'The Hi-Fi of Model Railway Operation'. I think you perfectly described that in your 'Satisfaction...' post above

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

I'd like to read that.  

 

I loved Don Rowland's articles in the MRN - I have the 500th edition in my shed, much thumbed and reread.

 

The Central Cheshire was very influential to my modelling philosophy