RMweb Premium Reorte Posted May 30, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 30, 2014 Not providing me with any means of paying for a ticket - ticket office closed, and no-one came around to sell me one before the train got to Buxton once (and it wasn't particularly busy). The ticket office at Buxton was open so I paid there, but even so. Another (shorter) journey on the same line to Middlewood (unstaffed) I mentioned it to the guard as I got off and he didn't seem bothered. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorpion Posted May 30, 2014 Share Posted May 30, 2014 Conisborough to Sheffield is another free commute, no ticket office, no machine and no conductor at busy times, why do they allow it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted May 30, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 30, 2014 Usually they manage to sell a ticket. If I was going a couple of stops down the line it would be plausible that he simply wouldn't have had a chance to get to me but not all the way from Davenport to Buxton. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted June 6, 2014 Author Share Posted June 6, 2014 Well not my usual target this time, but rather East Coast Trains today I travelled back from Leeds had my ticket accepted through the automatic ticket gates - over half of which were deliberately out of use but i thought nothing of as I was not delayed. I board my London bound train and listen to a good 4 minute monologue on tickets how we should ensure we correct tickets, warnings about advanced ticket restrictions etc by the Train Conductor who then checked all the tickets on the train after every stop. We arrive at Kings Cross and again a large proportion of the automatic ticket gates were deliberately out of use with a "senior" East Coast ticket collector manually checking tickets and causing a delay in the peak period. I asked why he was doing this? He replied that it was a "revenue protection day" to which retorted the barriers check the tickets. He then came back with"there lots of fake tickets and examined mine without looking to see if it had a magnetic street. So what value did this East Coast employee add in fact he made easier for fraud - without going into details I think most people on RMweb can work out a way! I guess East Coast is now on the home straight to being privatised with all the "benefits" that brings. Meanwhile back on my home turf one of the static G4S customer care professional is defrosted on a daily basis underneath 2 wall mounted heaters just inside the rear entrance of Maidenhead Station throughout the morning rush hour! You couldn't make it up! The guards identity hidden for obvious reasons, however note the red glow from the fires above above - June 3 at 07:30! Maybe the should replace these fires with new ones at ground level - First Grate Western anyone? XF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 So what value did this East Coast employee add in fact he made easier for fraud - without going into details I think most people on RMweb can work out a way! Just relying on rather dumb barriers that only look at whether a ticket is valid at that location and time and have no idea of what you've really done between those locations leaves a huge loophole for several lucrative types of ticket fraud - again without going to details i'm sure you can work them out. That your ticket was checked on board is great, but just because yours was it doesn't mean that all tickets on all trains were checked that day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 7, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 7, 2014 Sometimes they do amazingly logical things - such as a 'bus replacement train service! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium HillsideDepot Posted June 7, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 7, 2014 Surely on board ticket checking is much more than a revenue protection exercise? I very rarely travel by train these days, but in days gone by the Guard or TTI coming through the train was the perfect opportunity for passengers to ask questions and seek reassurance about their journey. Things such as "where should I change?", "which way is the buffet?" and so on. I know all of this information is usually delivered via the public address, but face to face contact is preferred by many. In terms of customer relations, presenting a human face of the company, the "ticket check" is almost an excuse to get out, to be seen and to interact with passengers. Yes, there are excess fares to be collected, and producing your ticket on board can be a minor irritation, but to see the whole operation as unnecessary just because there are barrier checks rather misses the point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted June 12, 2014 Author Share Posted June 12, 2014 I returned home to Maidenhead this morning and decided to purchase my ticket for tomorrow from one of the station ticket machines. I push the appropriate buttons on the ticket machine to have message "Tickets For Tomorrow are only available after 15:00" displayed. I enquired as to why this was and was and was informed that customers get confused and make mistakes umm! So i purchased my ticket from the ticket office as this permitted, as is buying the ticket online and collecting it before 15:00 from the same ticket machine! I can see FGW point that they want reduce mistakes and the angry customers but better signage may well help as having to queue for a ticket at ticket office is becoming a think of the past in places like London. I guess Network Rail is real bogey man here however when will the DaFT burghers behind Network Rail wake up and move into the 21st century with regard to train ticketing solutions. XF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted June 12, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 12, 2014 WHere available you could always ask for your ticket for tomorrow from you friendly Guard/Conductor. We appreciate the business.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted June 12, 2014 Author Share Posted June 12, 2014 WHere available you could always ask for your ticket for tomorrow from you friendly Guard/Conductor. We appreciate the business.... They are all mobbed handed at stations such as Burnham and the like making up for the lack of ticket barriers a lot of the time. Please first can we have a consistent approach even it is those awful ticket barriers at all stations? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted June 12, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 12, 2014 As regards ticket barriers, it's worth noting that individual franchises have very different approaches. East Coast for example hates them while other more suburban operators are more enthusiastic.Where FGW stands, I have no idea but there is one place where ticket barriers are seen as the answer to everything and that is the DfT. IIRC East Coast tried their hardest to stop barriers being installed at Kings Cross - using their on board checks as justification, but that cut no ice with the 'men from the ministry ' so they adopted the tatic of installing the barriers but in practice left them open and continuing with manual checks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 ATW's favourite party trick is swapping out a 3 car 175 for a 2 car at Chester. (A particular crowd "pleaser" at weekends!) 2 car's waiting in the platform already partly full with forward passengers, 3 car comes in behind mostly full, passengers get off the 3 car and can't fit on the 2 car....all because there's some scheduled maintenance job that simply can't wait another few hours until it gets back to the depot.... JF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted June 13, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 13, 2014 ATW's favourite party trick is swapping out a 3 car 175 for a 2 car at Chester. (A particular crowd "pleaser" at weekends!) 2 car's waiting in the platform already partly full with forward passengers, 3 car comes in behind mostly full, passengers get off the 3 car and can't fit on the 2 car....all because there's some scheduled maintenance job that simply can't wait another few hours until it gets back to the depot.... JF Have you considered that this procedure may be necessary to ensure as much stock as possible is serviced and ready to go on the following Monday. Its very easy to say 'why can't it be done later' but that approch rather ignores several real world issues none of which magically disappear simply because its the weekend. Train fleets are of a fixed size and are tightly diagrammed during the week to cater for demand, thus requiring as much maintenance to be done at weekends as possible. Scheduled maintenance tasks take a fixed amount of time (assuming nothing unexpected turns up) and do not get shorter simply because there are more units to deal with. Maintenance depots have a fixed number of sidings, servicing roads, etc which limits the number of units that can be handled at one time plus there is the fact that the amount of maintenance staff doesn't magically increase at weekends. That said, of course it doesn't mean the situation you outline is ideal - but to solve it you basically need more stock and a lower level of fleet utilisation thus giving more spare units, something that the Treasury won't put up with. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 Have you considered that this procedure may be necessary to ensure as much stock as possible is serviced and ready to go on the following Monday. Its very easy to say 'why carn't it be done later' but that approch rather ignores several real world issues none of which magically disapearr simply because its the weekend. Train fleets are of a fixed size and are tightly diagramed during the week to cater for demand, thus requiring as much maintainence to be done at weekends as possible. Scheduled maintaince tasks take a fixed ammount of time (assuming nothing unexpected turns up) and do not get shorter simply because there are more units to deal with. Maintainence depots have a fixed number of sidings, servicing roads, etc which limits the number of units that can be handeled at one time plus there is the fact that the ammount of maintaince staff doesn't magically increase at weekends. That said, of course it doesn't mean the situation you outline is ideal - but to solve it you basically need more stock and a lower level of fleet utalisation thus giving more spare units, something that the Treasuary won't put up with. - namely train fleets, the number of servicing facilaties and indeed maintainence staff avalable don't suddenly increase just because its the weekend. I've observed the process from my signalbox with these units for about the last 12 years and it seems to have been like it since day 1. They seem to have a generally OK availability but ridership has increased massively in that time without increased stock. It happens during the week too...sometimes several times a day! I can understand it being necessary to keep on top of things if a couple of units are down but the fare paying passengers certainly don't. JF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
great central Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 ATW's favourite party trick is swapping out a 3 car 175 for a 2 car at Chester. (A particular crowd "pleaser" at weekends!) 2 car's waiting in the platform already partly full with forward passengers, 3 car comes in behind mostly full, passengers get off the 3 car and can't fit on the 2 car....all because there's some scheduled maintenance job that simply can't wait another few hours until it gets back to the depot.... JF Bring back the 37s and coaches And in summer you just tack a chocolate and cream one onto the standard rake Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenman Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 As regards ticket barriers, it's worth noting that individual franchises have very different approaches. East Coast for example hates them while other more suburban operators are more enthusiastic. I was sitting in an FCC first class carriage the other day on a London-Cambridge express, in splendid isolation, when six loud men burst in. One of them seemed unsure, since their tickets were standard class; don't worry, he was assured by one of his mates, they never check on these trains and, if they do, we just buy an upgrade. It was clear he was an experienced hand. And having done this journey hundreds of times over the years, the number of on-board ticket checks I've experienced is probably not much out of single figures. Over-reliance on ticket barriers may well have increased revenue losses in some circumstances. Then again, FCC don't help themselves. For a time, they decided the best way to deal with this problem was to stick enormous, threatening notices in the middle of the carriage windows, so that your relaxing contemplation of the passing scenery was replaced by brutally-written legalese blotting out the view. Yes, that's what I'm paying extra for. These people are clearly geniuses. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted June 13, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 13, 2014 Over-reliance on ticket barriers may well have increased revenue losses in some circumstances. Indeed but you try getting the DfT to believe that..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 I can understand it being necessary to keep on top of things if a couple of units are down but the fare paying passengers certainly don't. In a similar vein, in my commuting past I recall several times being switched between identical trains of C stock at Edgware road when control suddenly decides that the Circle train you were on needs to become an H&C one and the H&C train behind you will become a Circle line one... At least they usually managed to do the swap on an island platform. (Barking train. Barking train. The next departure is a Barking train....) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
caradoc Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 I returned home to Maidenhead this morning and decided to purchase my ticket for tomorrow from one of the station ticket machines. I push the appropriate buttons on the ticket machine to have message "Tickets For Tomorrow are only available after 15:00" displayed. I enquired as to why this was and was and was informed that customers get confused and make mistakes umm! So i purchased my ticket from the ticket office as this permitted, as is buying the ticket online and collecting it before 15:00 from the same ticket machine! I can see FGW point that they want reduce mistakes and the angry customers but better signage may well help as having to queue for a ticket at ticket office is becoming a think of the past in places like London. I guess Network Rail is real bogey man here however when will the DaFT burghers behind Network Rail wake up and move into the 21st century with regard to train ticketing solutions. XF Why do you think Network Rail is responsible for ticket purchasing procedures ? This is surely the responsibility of the Train Operators. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 Bring back the 37s and coaches And in summer you just tack a chocolate and cream one onto the standard rake Something like that may be on the cards from December. I think the WAG is finishing then and there's a 67 and stock to find a use for.... JF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titan Posted June 13, 2014 Share Posted June 13, 2014 ATW's favourite party trick is swapping out a 3 car 175 for a 2 car at Chester. (A particular crowd "pleaser" at weekends!) 2 car's waiting in the platform already partly full with forward passengers, 3 car comes in behind mostly full, passengers get off the 3 car and can't fit on the 2 car....all because there's some scheduled maintenance job that simply can't wait another few hours until it gets back to the depot.... JF Like filling it with Diesel perhaps? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted June 13, 2014 Author Share Posted June 13, 2014 Why do you think Network Rail is responsible for ticket purchasing procedures ? This is surely the responsibility of the Train Operators. Because the tickets a first tickets but National Rail tickets (the old BR orange and cream ones). I cannot blame first for these as most operators appear to use them and they really are a throw back to a bygone age with separate cards for tickets, seat reservations and receipt so a minimum of 5 cards for a long journey with a long wait for them all to be printed from those wonderful ticket machines. Why not one card with all the info I guess it's due to Stephenson Rocket science principles being the order of the day Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted June 14, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 14, 2014 Because the tickets a first tickets but National Rail tickets (the old BR orange and cream ones). I cannot blame first for these as most operators appear to use them and they really are a throw back to a bygone age with separate cards for tickets, seat reservations and receipt so a minimum of 5 cards for a long journey with a long wait for them all to be printed from those wonderful ticket machines. Why not one card with all the info I guess it's due to Stephenson Rocket science principles being the order of the day I suggest you invest in a magnifying glass rather than castigating the wrong people yet again. Tickets may well look superficially the same as in the days of British Rail, but the background writing actually says "rail settlement plan". This is actually a body under the control of ATOC of which NETWORK RAIL IS NOT A MEMBER. Likewise the terms and conditions attached to tickets are under the control of ATOC and the DfT. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerces Fobe2 Posted June 14, 2014 Author Share Posted June 14, 2014 DaFT set all the rules - Ticketing on the National Rail network has gone backwards since privatisation. It could be made much more simpler, less confusing and quicker. Carrying wallets full of cards that have to be shown numerous times on some journeys is pointless. It could all be done on a mobile phone much easier but that is the last thing the rail companies want as confusion and fines are good business! It is easier to get a ticket and fly to America than it is to get many long distance rail tickets in the UK . Airlines even put the seat number on your ticket how easy jet is that? XF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
great central Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 DaFT set all the rules - Ticketing on the National Rail network has gone backwards since privatisation. It could be made much more simpler, less confusing and quicker. Carrying wallets full of cards that have to be shown numerous times on some journeys is pointless. It could all be done on a mobile phone much easier but that is the last thing the rail companies want as confusion and fines are good business! It is easier to get a ticket and fly to America than it is to get many long distance rail tickets in the UK . Airlines even put the seat number on your ticket how easy jet is that? XF Not all of us want or need an all singing all dancing mobile. I only have a Blackberry because the company gave it to me. Things like that are wide open to fraudulent use. Anyway I don't think passengers would appreciate having holes punched in their mobiles Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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