Illogical Things Your TOC does

[Xerces Fobe2]

Travelling to work by train most days on my favourite TOC  i have noticed some of the dump things my TOC does

 

1. Announcing over the P.A. that' The next train is not in service" - when it is however it is a freight train!

 

2 My favourite - Train's that are stopping trains described as a train to the station prior to the large station i.e Twyford rather than Reading when the train clearly displays Reading on illuminated displays both inside and out of the train!

 

3. Banning bikes from trains in the peak period- official documented policy but letting cyclist through the ticket barriers stating that it is up to the staff on the train if the bikes allowed i.e. the driver!

 

4. Missing out stations out when the train is late and telling passengers to travel to next station and catch a train back i.e. Burnham Bucks  go to Slough and travel back!

 

As much as I love First they cannot be the only company will sill rules and practices so let's see yours?

 

XF

[caradoc]

Sometimes things are not as illogical as they seem at first glance;

 

1. Oxford to Paddington stoppers have for many years been advertised at Oxford as going to Ealing Broadway, because anyone for London is far better waiting for the next fast train.

 

4. Running trains non-stop is a tried and tested method of restoring trains to on time as quickly as possible, while inconveniencing as few passengers as possible. Presumably the example quoted gives those passengers the quickest journey ?

[Xerces Fobe2]

Sometimes things are not as illogical as they seem at first glance;

 

4. Running trains non-stop is a tried and tested method of restoring trains to on time as quickly as possible, while inconveniencing as few passengers as possible. Presumably the example quoted gives those passengers the quickest journey ?

 

Not when 5 other trains have served Slough in the interim!

[yorkie_pudd]

Number 1 is I assume a station announcment, made in order to prevent the passengers moving forward and putting themsleves in danger of been sucked off.....the platform by the passing train.

 

Number 2 point is so that passengers wanting the "next big station" dont get on the stopper and then start moaning it slow.....

 

Leeds to York via Harrogate trains always show up as gonig to Poppleton for the same reason.

 

some times at leeds this is stated as leeds/Harrogate/York

 

but although some are stated as terminates at Knaresborough can also happen as last minute change terminate there as it pulls into Knaresborough. not uncommon and infuriates the York bound commuters.

[petethemole]

Similarly the stoppers from Southampton to Waterloo are announced as for Farnborough. As they usually call at Soton Airport Parkway 5 mins before the fast and have 'Waterloo' on the side displays, it's quite common for passengers wanting the fast train to get on the slow despite the PA announcements.

[phil-b259]

Travelling to work by train most days on my favourite TOC  i have noticed some of the dump things my TOC does

 

1. Announcing over the P.A. that' The next train is not in service" - when it is however it is a freight train!

 

2 My favourite - Train's that are stopping trains described as a train to the station prior to the large station i.e Twyford rather than Reading when the train clearly displays Reading on illuminated displays both inside and out of the train!

 

3. Banning bikes from trains in the peak period- official documented policy but letting cyclist through the ticket barriers stating that it is up to the staff on the train if the bikes allowed i.e. the driver!

 

4. Missing out stations out when the train is late and telling passengers to travel to next station and catch a train back i.e. Burnham Bucks  go to Slough and travel back!

 

As much as I love First they cannot be the only company will sill rules and practices so let's see yours?

 

XF

 

Out of that list the only 'dumb' (which is what I imagine you meant to type ) thing you list is no.3 - if the company has a policy of banning bycycles in the peaks then during such times the staff mnning the gates have a responsability not to allow them through (unless they have a ticket for a route where bikes may be permitted in situations where the restrictions only apply to trains heading in one direction from the station)

 

Of the others:-

 

(1) As has already been pointed out 99% of railway passengers have no interest in railway matters and don't need to know what a approaching non stop train consists of - the important thing is they stand back from the edge of the platform.

 

(2) Again established practice in some situations to prevent overcrowding or use of the stopping service by travellers for whom a fast service is more appropriate. The only real objection to this practice is if it is done to try and skew passengers onto a more expensive service - as was the practice at Gatwick Airport under BR where all NSE trains were described (and announced) as terminating at Clapham Junction to try and push airline passengers onto the more expensive Gatwick Express service.

 

(4) As annoying as this practice is to some, it is a useful way of trying to get things back on track after major disruption has occurred. In principle it makes sense if done well - i.e. it tries to improve the situation for the majority of passengers on the train - or perhaps the subsequent one (e.g. miss out stations on the run up to London so the train is able to depart right time for its evening peak run back). On the other hand if it is used too regularly to overcome foreseeable issues (and by that I am talking about an unrealistic timetable, too short station dwell times, not taking proper account of train servicing or maintenance requirements) then it rapidly brings the practice into dispute.

[stewartingram]

The constant stream of announcements at Waterloo for incoming trains - "This train terminates here".

 

(To be fair, this is I believe a NR station, not SWT.)

 

Stewart

[roythebus]

there'd be a problem if it didn't!

[Fenman]

Similarly the stoppers from Southampton to Waterloo are announced as for Farnborough. As they usually call at Soton Airport Parkway 5 mins before the fast and have 'Waterloo' on the side displays, it's quite common for passengers wanting the fast train to get on the slow despite the PA announcements.

 

Not displaying the final destination can have perverse consequences, especially since the railway sometimes seems obsessed with speed over money. For example, from Southampton there are two routes to London - SWT to Waterloo, and Southern to Victoria (via Gatwick). The latter takes about 70 minutes longer, but is very much cheaper.

 

The (SWT?) ticket office staff at Southampton never, ever offer Victoria as an option if you ask for the cheapest ticket to London, and if you try to buy it they often argue with you - I have even been told that it takes "hours" (sic) longer. When I ask if they earn at least £25 an hour - the cost/saving - they go strangely quiet.

 

Since the information displays also claim that the Victoria train only goes to Gatwick, the public are almost never informed that there is another option that will save them money.

 

Paul

[Talltim]

My station's announcement don't say that the train is not in service, they either say it's not in passenger service or that it does not stop here. Performs the same function without lying.

Sheffield is now better, but they went through a period of having two trains allegedly arriving at on the same platform at the same time when one (or both) was running late.

They still seem to reckon that passengers won't notice that a late running train hasn't arrived yet and display it's departure time up to three minutes earlier than the current time

[brushman47544]

(1) As has already been pointed out 99% of railway passengers have no interest in railway matters and don't need to know what a approaching non stop train consists of - the important thing is they stand back from the edge of the platform.

 

(4) As annoying as this practice is to some, it is a useful way of trying to get things back on track after major disruption has occurred. In principle it makes sense if done well - i.e. it tries to improve the situation for the majority of passengers on the train - or perhaps the subsequent one (e.g. miss out stations on the run up to London so the train is able to depart right time for its evening peak run back). On the other hand if it is used too regularly to overcome foreseeable issues (and by that I am talking about an unrealistic timetable, too short station dwell times, not taking proper account of train servicing or maintenance requirements) then it rapidly brings the practice into dispute.

 

Re (1), it is the language I object to. The more accurate "Please stand back, the next train at this platform does not stop here" would be so much better.

 

Re (4), whilst I support missing out stations to get trains back on track, sometimes this is done without looking properly at the immediate consequences, for example how long some passengers may have to wait for the next train to their station and therefore which stations should be missed out. I have known cases where calling at one smaller station would have saved half a dozen or so people an hour's wait, but instead the train still called at a bigger station that more people wanted but the next train for them was only a 15 minute wait. I have also encountered a case where it would have been much better for the passengers if the next journey had run fast to catch up time not the delayed train (and before someone says the next journey was with the same train crew). I'm convinced that decision was purely because the on time statistics would look better.

[John M Upton]

Frequently heard at terminal stations like Littlehampton is the announcement 'The next train is not scheduled to stop at this station'.

 

On a couple of occasions (a loco in the 1920's IIRC that wound up in the street outside and a couple of years ago with a 377 which nerfed the buffer stop) it didn't....

[Fenman]

Re (1), it is the language I object to. The more accurate "Please stand back, the next train at this platform does not stop here" would be so much better.

 

The railway is full of pompously over-wrought language. My current particular hatred is how all belongings must be "personal" - as in "please take all your personal belongings with you".

 

What other sort of belongings would I have? And if I had a different sort, why would I leave those behind?

 

There are loads of other corporate-speak nonsenses: apparently saying "next station" is not good enough and we have to be told it's the "next station stop".

 

Paul

[The Stationmaster]

Regrettably FGW seems to have problems with the English language.  While I haven't come across 'the next train is not inservice' in place of the usual 'stand back from the platform edge the next train does not stop here' the moronic and faintly ludicrous 'Next Fastest Train To' on indicators and screens has now spread from Reading to Paddington.  Mind you in one recent case at Reading it really did show the next fastest train to a couple of stations in the West of England while at the same time there was little to hint of either the next train or the fastest train to those stations.

 

It really hacks me off that we now have masses of indicators and screens but they're not in plain English - or even meaningful English.

[phil-b259]

Frequently heard at terminal stations like Littlehampton is the announcement 'The next train is not scheduled to stop at this station'.

 

On a couple of occasions (a loco in the 1920's IIRC that wound up in the street outside and a couple of years ago with a 377 which nerfed the buffer stop) it didn't....

 

That steams from the use of automated announcements driven by train describer headcodes - If the software is not configured correctly then anything not having a passenger headcode (like a test train or empty stock moves) may well trigger a non stopping announcement at a terminal station.

 

Equally I have also seen situations where the correction train describer berth has been used as a trigger so that the "please stand back announcement only happens when said fast train is already halfway through or even past the platform concerned.

 

As for "this train terminates here" announcements at Waterloo - NEVER understimate the stupidity of the general public which seams to be getting worse year on year. Amongst the gems seen his year is visitors to the Bluebell pressing the rubber bump stops and expecting the carriage door to open and commuters stuck on a train at Balcombe the other Friday after somebody jumped in front of it (at 90mph) complaining bitterly about being stuck on the train and cursing everyone / everything railway (Evacuation was complicated because walking them back to Balcombe would have meant walking past bits of body and the only other option for immediate evacuation was a 1/2 mile trek through the woods).

 

I did see a joke once that suggested commuters were behaving more and more like the sheep their wool suits were made from - maybe its not such a joke after all.

[The Stationmaster]

The railway is full of pompously over-wrought language. My current particular hatred is how all belongings must be "personal" - as in "please take all your personal belongings with you".

 

What other sort of belongings would I have? And if I had a different sort, why would I leave those behind?

 

There are loads of other corporate-speak nonsenses: apparently saying "next station" is not good enough and we have to be told it's the "next station stop".

 

Paul

As hinted by Mickey the 'next station stop' is there for a very good reason - there's more than a few folk who used to get up the next time the train stopped having been told 'the next stop is e.g. Plymouth' which is bad enough.  What was worse was the incident - albeit before central locking of course - when one such person opened a door and very nearly got out.

[John M Upton]

We seem to have had a bit of a problem lately with Doris or Boris the automated station announcer announcing that the train at Platform 'X' is ready to leave a couple of minutes after aforementioned train has departed.  I think a recent software update did something to the system leading me to quote my favourite rule of IT Maintenance, if it ain't broke don't fix it....

[roundhouse]

We often get an almost continuous announcement by Southern that first class seats are for first class ticket holders, just after they have announced that the next train is cancelled.

 

Quite often the train is only cancelled from our station as it's running fast due to being late.

 

Quite often they will run trains fast through East Croydon to make up time. This is one of the most important stops on the line and I know people who have ended up at Oxted when they wanted to get off at East a Croydon but no announcement on the train until after departing London Bridge that it was now to run fast. This particular person was travelling to Barnham so he was really late home that evening.

[Steve Purves]

We seem to have had a bit of a problem lately with Doris or Boris the automated station announcer announcing that the train at Platform 'X' is ready to leave a couple of minutes after aforementioned train has departed.  I think a recent software update did something to the system leading me to quote my favourite rule of IT Maintenance, if it ain't broke don't fix it....

 

I remeber a malfunctioning digital derek at leicester once announcing the next train would be calling at blue zone and passengers wishing to alight at loughborough should board the train in derby...

[brushman47544]

Quite often they will run trains fast through East Croydon to make up time. This is one of the most important stops on the line and I know people who have ended up at Oxted when they wanted to get off at East a Croydon but no announcement on the train until after departing London Bridge that it was now to run fast. This particular person was travelling to Barnham so he was really late home that evening.

 

Southern really does that without checking first whether people need to get off? I would have no compunction about pulling the cord in such circumstances, timed so the train stopped in the platform.

[roundhouse]

That did happen one time when we had a red signal. Caused All sorts of problems and they ended rebooting the Electrostar a number of times delaying us even further on our way home.

[Steve Purves]

Southern really does that without checking first whether people need to get off? I would have no compunction about pulling the cord in such circumstances, timed so the train stopped in the platform.

 

In the old cranking days there was a member of the peak army IIRC that used to pull the cord regular at wigston and go home up the embankment, thus saving the bus fare home

['CHARD]

PEAK ARMY !!!!!

[The Stationmaster]

PEAK ARMY !!!!!

Presumably a new name for the Fell  Brigade?? 

[petethemole]

As in?:

1. Of an inhumanly cruel nature; fierce: fell hordes.

2. Capable of destroying; lethal: a fell blow.

3. Dire; sinister: by some fell chance.

 

Pete