Steve-e Posted June 6, 2014 Share Posted June 6, 2014 Strange as it seems Dapol have updated their News section for the 2nd day running this is how the Newspapers are reporting the fact today.... Ok so its not the 1st of April and its not in the Newspapers the clipping above was made by myself, however Dapol have updated their News section 2 days in a row . This was something I brought up on the recent Topic regarding Ask Dapol so hopefully they do listen and this will become a regular occurance. See here http://Dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=information/news So for now 'Well Done Dapol' Keep it up. Regards Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrianbs Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Hi All, For those who are now not up to date it is worth checking just what you might be getting if you have placed preorders for the Pillbox brakevan. This section is one of those updated twice in the last few days. Particular care should be taken depending exactly when you preordered and with whom. The original specifications for the 4 variants as listed in 2012 and still on many retailers sites are totally innaccurate. Neither the model colour schemes nor the designs are being produced. Those conversant with the Diagrams and running numbers may well have been expecting 2 colour schemes on the original Left Hand Ducket design Diagram 1578 and a further 2 liveries on the final 2+2 planking Right Hand ducket version Diagram 1579. These would have, of course, nicely complemented the existing Parkside and ABS models kits to Diagram 1579 with Even planked Right Hand ducket bodies, more or less completing the set in the same way as Bachmann have in 4mm. Alas, that is not what is coming, at least not in the first batch, as in fact the planned models will be the same as the kit versions. The original announcement also indicated working tail lamps which also seem to have been dropped although the same prices apply. Further confusion may have been caused amonst those who ordered using the specifications supplied by Richard Webster about 3 months ago. The first two references have been reversed in the latest announcements. The original 2012 announcement further complicated matters by originally listing a running number which was never allocated to a Pillbox brakevan but was presumably a typo. I think we will be in the WYSIWYG situation once the deliveries start arriving in the post and I wonder if some retailers will be having to replace or refund. Regards to all adrianbs . PS Looking at the published pictures, those who have not yet ordered might be wise to wait for reviews if you are a picky sort of modeller !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreadnought05 Posted June 7, 2014 Share Posted June 7, 2014 Can't see it mentioned on the news section but Dapol also have in stock a couple of 5 plank O gauge wagons in ICI blue livery, one of which is weathered. Not seen these before.... http://Dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=177_188_189&product_id=1440 http://Dapol.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=177_188_189&product_id=1441 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrianbs Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Hi All Dreadnought has found yet another pair of "Cash Cow" Dapol wagons in O gauge. They are appearing almost weekly and it would be interesting to see evidence of the real wagon on which these new models are based to see if they bear any close resemblance to the prototype in terms of livery or design apart from having 5 planks, 4 wheels and 4 buffers, If anybody has any references it would be nice to make a comparison. adrianbs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Hi All Dreadnought has found yet another pair of "Cash Cow" Dapol wagons in O gauge. They are appearing almost weekly and it would be interesting to see evidence of the real wagon on which these new models are based to see if they bear any close resemblance to the prototype in terms of livery or design apart from having 5 planks, 4 wheels and 4 buffers, If anybody has any references it would be nice to make a comparison. adrianbs I do remember seeing a couple of blue wagons at ICI Billingham ( and another in the distance at Wilton, seen from the Redcar Trunk Road) in the early seventies, but never stopped to look at them, mostly because there wasn't a loco with them. Internal users? On "cash cows"- in the current climate where all manufacturers are struggling to make ends meet, who can blame Dapol or anyone else for producing stuff that they think they can sell, even if not historically accurate? All the very best Les Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Hi All Dreadnought has found yet another pair of "Cash Cow" Dapol wagons in O gauge. They are appearing almost weekly and it would be interesting to see evidence of the real wagon on which these new models are based to see if they bear any close resemblance to the prototype in terms of livery or design apart from having 5 planks, 4 wheels and 4 buffers, If anybody has any references it would be nice to make a comparison. adrianbs Adrian you seem to delight in doing Dapol down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted June 8, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 8, 2014 Adrian you seem to delight in doing Dapol down. Indeed, the idea that a manufacturer exists to make enough to eat seems to upset some people. How he chooses to create that income sometimes even more so. O Gauge RTR? Be grateful! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calnefoxile Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 I would just like to report that Dapol failed to turn up at the N Gauge Society AGM. As of yet I have no idea why they failed to turn up. Maybe they were aware that there was a storm of criticism heading their way. Regards Neal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 I would just like to report that Dapol failed to turn up at the N Gauge Society AGM. As of yet I have no idea why they failed to turn up. Maybe they were aware that there was a storm of criticism heading their way. I can appreciate the frustration of that; I'm personally at the point where I'm very likely to wash my hands of trying to proactively assist which comes from some basic lack of courtesy. Trying to communicate is just painful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrianbs Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Hi all, Don't worry, I am not picking on Dapol alone, my criticisms are aimed at any major manufacturer who seems unable to produce accurate models at a time when it has never been easier to get them correct. My recent posts have been aimed at Bachmann ( SR brakevans, POWs and 16T minerals) Hornby ( LNER coaches); Hornby Magazine ( Stove R and Diesel brake tender);Flangeway (Mermaid) and even Lionheart Trains ( Fitted 16T minerals ). If you like I will review other products if they are within my sphere of competance. Dapol has been a major target for a very good reason !! How much easier it would be for a manufacturer to make a living and eat well if the products, when reviewed properly, were given a thumbs up on all aspects of dimension, detail, definition and design even when some of those purchasing them could not really care less !! Indeed I wonder why some manufacturers are struggling, perhaps their products are not quite up to the standard the customers expect (see cainefoxile's post above) I cannot keep up with demand at the moment, I wonder why that is, if so many others are struggling. The term "Cash cow" was not originally one I used, but was aimed at Dapol's products on another forum and seemed to me a very apposite description. I do consider it to be very important that the faults on RTR models are described in some detail, especially on coaches and wagons which rarely get the attention of reviewers in the same way as Locos. They often only get a very superficial "once over" without any serious attempt to check the accuracy which gives the impression that there are few, if any, faults. Modellers do not have to read comments on forums if they have no interest in accuracy, these comments are for the benefit of those who do want quality products but may not have sufficient knowledge to judge for themselves. To date no one has actually contradicted my comments with any meaningful information so although I am perfectly prepared, as I always have been, to revise my opinion I have not so far had to do that. Regards adrianbs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy L S Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 I was expecting them to be at the NGS AGM haven driven a fair way to get to it, and the "no show" was especially disappointing given that from what I could gather it was not communicated or explained to the organisers. Now admittedly I did not go to the AGM for that alone, but for me a big part of going is the chance to talk to the two principal N manufacturers about their products and plans. I accept that there may be very good reasons that are yet to be explained, but for me it makes little commercial sense for one of the principal manufacturers of British N to fail to support a meeting of a society with 6000 plus members most of whom would have a direct interest buying in their products! If they couldn't be there it would have been courteous to let the organisers know in advance so that they could in turn inform the members. Even if en-route and problems were encountered how hard is a phone call?. Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adams442T Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Hi all, Don't worry, I am not picking on Dapol alone, my criticisms are aimed at any major manufacturer who seems unable to produce accurate models at a time when it has never been easier to get them correct. How much easier it would be for a manufacturer to make a living and eat well if the products, when reviewed properly, were given a thumbs up on all aspects of dimension, detail, definition and design even when some of those purchasing them could not really care less !! I do consider it to be very important that the faults on RTR models are described in some detail, especially on coaches and wagons which rarely get the attention of reviewers in the same way as Locos. Modellers do not have to read comments on forums if they have no interest in accuracy, these comments are for the benefit of those who do want quality products but may not have sufficient knowledge to judge for themselves. To date no one has actually contradicted my comments with any meaningful information so although I am perfectly prepared, as I always have been, to revise my opinion I have not so far had to do that. Regards adrianbs. Hi Adrian, might you consider posting a 'Dapol Reviews', 'Bachmann Reviews', etc., under the appropriate headings in the Products & Trade area as new models come to light? Along with, if possible, suggestions for remedying such faults as you spot. This would be a boon to those who are interested in such details, and mean that those not so concerned would be able to ignore your information if they wish. As you say no one has so far contradicted your analysis of models, just perhaps your delivery. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 A manufacturer producing reviews? Sorry, trying to get my head round that. CHRIS LEIGH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 A manufacturer producing reviews? Sorry, trying to get my head round that. CHRIS LEIGH Ah the really dark days of Dapol recalled, when George Smith with a false name that quickly got seen through posted a good review of their OO Pendolino on the old model railway news group. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 I think it is safe to say Adrian is not working for Dapol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Ah the really dark days of Dapol recalled, when George Smith with a false name that quickly got seen through posted a good review of their OO Pendolino on the old model railway news group. That's a good one - I hadn't heard that! I was just thinking of one or two of the hair-raising and extremely expensive cases of reviews that back-fired and landed Editors in court. One of the things the courts really don't like is any evidence that the reviewer had' an axe to grind'. A manufacturer reviewing another manufacturer's product will find it pretty difficult to prove that he didn't have an axe to grind. Similarly, if you allow one manufacturer to review another's product, how long before you get 'tit for tat' reviews or perhaps even pressure from manufacturers to be allowed to review their own products. Think, gentlemen, .... thin end of the wedge. CHRIS LEIGH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 I'm inclined to think Adrian's reaction to the prospect of Dapol reviewing his products would be "bring it on!" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted June 8, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 8, 2014 I'm inclined to think Adrian's reaction to the prospect of Dapol reviewing his products would be "bring it on!" Maybe he should ask another kit manufacturer to review his kits? (although while I haven't built one for years I did find them rather good but you did have to be very careful when fitting decent brass bearings in them). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted June 8, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 8, 2014 On reviews a lot is down to tone I think. You can do a robust review that highlights issues with a model and still retain a sense of perspective and an upbeat feel. A review should be a review in assessing issues such as fidelity to prototype, finish, quality but it also should retain a sense of perspective in recognising cost and production factors. Many modelers are willing to accept liberties if it is the cost of getting a model which whilst not perfect is better than the prototype never being offered due to the nature of a true representation meaning it would never be worth the effort for manufacturers. An example I'll quote just to illustrate the point is the BR blue/grey Gresley coach Hornby did a while ago, we know it is not accurate but if it is that or nothing there are plenty who will quite reasonably take the compromised offering. A reviewer is absolutely right to point out the inaccuracy but should also acknowledge that it is the very nature of some of these compromises which make the model possible in the first place. I must admit I've seen some reviews that strike me as being more a vehicle for the reviewers own hobby horses than balanced reviews of the product, perhaps the axes being ground. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gelboy45 Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 The US Forums don't mince their words. A manufacturer even apologised and withdrew and improved a loco that was not seen as acceptable! If the society's' rules allow could the N Gauge Society review new N scale models? The Society is respected and any criticism would be responsible and without prejudice. How about an NGS Forum too? Gerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy L S Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 The NGS does review new models, there is a Trade Liaison Officer part of whose role it is specifically to do this. Regards Roy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Of course the NGS is run by the members and for the members. Reviews are conducted by volunteers to the best of their abilities but not everyone is an expert on every prototype so the reviews vary. Some have picked up fine detail issues with models but others are fairly generic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 That's a good one - I hadn't heard that! Chris, heres the posting as recorded by Google, the original if IIRC was not so clear as to the author, you had to backtrack through the email addresses in its header George Smith - Sorry John but must disagree with you.I was in the Dapol factory last month and peeked at them beavering away,(albeit behind closed doors). No sign of any Chinese connection anywhere.I got a model at Warley and it runs absolutely superbly. Virtually no noise,minimalsway, superb finish. Sure the pantograph could have been working but itcertainlydoes not detract from the overall model. I have just bought a Sommerfeldtworkingpantograph and the fitting holes match exactly with the Dapol fitting -exactly as theysaid it would.The only noise I could hear was from metal wheels on metal rails. It wasalmostlike reliving the old 'Wrenn' days and certainly nothing to get upset about.I really think that Dapol deserve support from all of us UK modellers. Thisis thefirst model they have produced under the new management and I really thinkthatwe are all honour-bound to support a UK manufacturer - warts and all.As for the value - for -money element then I think that £99 is OK. Justbreak it downinto constituent parts. We all pay £18 for a carriage. Well 3 x £18 =£54.00. Then addanother £46.00 for the motorised unit; I think that £46 is quite reasonable.Come on guys, lets do a bit a flag waving and support our home-grownmanufacturers.Once you lose them, then they are gone for ever!Jon Richmond------------- Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adrianbs Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Hi All Would just like to contradict woodenhead's assertion that I have not been working for Dapol. Supplying information and suggestions to RW to assist with the design of the Hornby magazine diesel brake tender being produced by Dapol and also the O gauge SR brake van is hardly being employed by them but could be construed as working to help them get things right. Both products are produced as kits by me and had they bought one of each they would have saved themselves making most of the mistakes that have been made.even if they had slavishly copied them detail for detail. There would have been a few minor errors left which is hardly surprising bearing in mind the DBT kit is 40+ years old and the SR brake is over 25 years old. I think both predate the very existence of Dapol as a model railway manufacturer, the DBT certainly does. Naturally. when I have published my lists of errors or anomalies on various models I have had to be very cautious to check my facts and not to make unsubstantiated comments, even to the point of buying models I do not want, to check exact details before commenting. Unfortunately many products enter full production with gross errors simply because the design or research is poor. I have been involved with many companies or businesses on a consultative basis, some of whom might be embarassed if I were to reveal the extent of my input. I have spent 45 years trying to improve the standards of models and kits but there are those who are still apparently happy to accept standards that were obsolete decades ago. Regards all adrianbs Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Adrian, if you produce kits of both models that Dapol are currently in the process of developing then your negativity could be construed as an attempt to do down their model in favour of your own. A bit like Bachmann coming on to this site and then rubbishing Hornby products. I am not saying that you are wrong in your assertions that the models may not be as accurate as your own but that the ferocity with which you damn their products could be in order to bolster sales of your own. This does not make you an innocent modeller wanting the best from Dapol for your layout. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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