The Official Rapido APT-E Thread

[Wolf27]

Loving the Iconic Train photo - I can only dream of being able to recreate that from new RTR models!

 

Unless of course.....................................!

I'm still working on them. Be patient they're coming!

 

Cheers

 

Shane

[Crewlisle]

Hi guys,

 

Here's a quick update as to where things are at.  Sorry I haven't been participating much on the forums lately.  I've been swamped at the office - we've finally hired a new warehouse and admin guy but it will be some time before he is fully up to speed.  

 

The APT-E has certainly been a challenge! People don't realize how complex it is due to its streamlined appearance, but getting it to tilt while going around #2 radius curves required some ingenious engineering.  I'm glad that our engineers are up to the task...................

 

Congratulations on your boldness in making the APT-E & hope that it is a commercila success for you.  I have read a lot of comments on line in this & other forums hoping that you will do an APT-P.  I was surprised you chose APT-E instead of the (in my opinion & many other modellers) more popular APT-P.

 

Model railway manufacturers shied away for many years to make a 4mm scale Blue Pullman saying it wouldn’t sell, it would be too expensive to the average modeller plus other excuses.  Bachmann took the gamble & found no problem selling the super detailed original six car liveried model for over £300 & are now planning for a second run.  However they made a mistake also modelling the short lived yellow ended version which only ran for a few weeks in that ‘training’ livery.

 

The comments on line & on this website & others go on about doing the full 14 coach APT-P, which is ridiculous.  The majority of us would be delighted with a five car APT-P & coach close couplings similar to Bachmann’s Blue Pullman.   You say you have been having trouble with your couplings & it could take up to half hour to connect the unit together.  Don’t be too proud to use the same type of couplings used by Bachmann on their Blue Pullman because they WORK!  It takes about five to ten minutes to get the six coach Blue Pullman coupled up & running & it easily goes round second radius curves & up 1 in 35 gradients.

 

I see you are going to the NEC show in November.  May I suggest you ask all visitors to your stand (preferably via a standard format questionnaire) if they would buy a five car APT-P, what price they would be prepared to pay & if they were interested in additional cars to make up their own full length APT-P.   You may be surprised by the enthusiastic response!

Edited June 24, 2015 by Crewlisle

[47137]

...

 

For your sanity and for the longevity of your train, I highly recommend that you build a casette that takes the entire train. Leave it permanently coupled and just put it in the back seat of your car to take to shows or the club. We've reduced the "fiddle factor" of separating the cars but there is no way to reduce the fiddle factor for reconnecting all of those plugs. It will take you a good half hour to set up, at least.

 

...

What would be a sensible length for a cassette, to hold the 4-coach model plus 12 mm foam at each end?

 

No back seat in the Mazda but there is a parcel shelf and a boot.

 

- Richard.

[rapidobill]

What would be a sensible length for a cassette, to hold the 4-coach model plus 12 mm foam at each end?

 

No back seat in the Mazda but there is a parcel shelf and a boot.

 

- Richard.

 In the spirit of full disclosure, I had lobbied hard for a four foot long box about three inches square which would hold the entire train in one piece. I was overruled by more practical, if less imaginative types in the company (OK, he owns the place...) who suggested that this might be... ummmm.... somewhat prone to shipping damage. Besides, it made the format of the book that we promised to include somewhat more problematic. But, oh, the possibilities.....

 

Bill Schneider

Rapido Trains

[rapidotrains]

The entire train is about 46" long. I suggest you make a 4' long cassette and shove EPDM foam around the four sides. It will fit in almost any car, even if you don't have a back seat!

 

-Jason

[amwells]

Don't worry - the model is indeed OO.

 

-Jason

Sorry Jason - my comment was very much meant tongue in cheek - it looks fantastic and am very much looking forward to my sound fitted version when it's ready

[Mr_Tilt]

Congratulations on your boldness in making the APT-E & hope that it is a commercila success for you.  I have read a lot of comments on line in this & other forums hoping that you will do an APT-P.  I was surprised you chose APT-E instead of the (in my opinion & many other modellers) more popular APT-P.

 

Model railway manufacturers shied away for many years to make a 4mm scale Blue Pullman saying it wouldn’t sell, it would be too expensive to the average modeller plus other excuses.  Bachmann took the gamble & found no problem selling the super detailed original six car liveried model for over £300 & are now planning for a second run.  However they made a mistake also modelling the short lived yellow ended version which only ran for a few weeks in that ‘training’ livery.

 

The comments on line & on this website & others go on about doing the full 14 coach APT-P, which is ridiculous.  The majority of us would be delighted with a five car APT-P & coach close couplings similar to Bachmann’s Blue Pullman.   You say you have been having trouble with your couplings & it could take up to half hour to connect the unit together.  Don’t be too proud to use the same type of couplings used by Bachmann on their Blue Pullman because they WORK!  It takes about five to ten minutes to get the six coach Blue Pullman coupled up & running & it easily goes round second radius curves & up 1 in 35 gradients.

 

I see you are going to the NEC show in November.  May I suggest you ask all visitors to your stand (preferably via a standard format questionnaire) if they would buy a five car APT-P, what price they would be prepared to pay & if they were interested in additional cars to make up their own full length APT-P.   You may be surprised by the enthusiastic response!

 

Jason's enthusiasm for the E-Train is explained well in the video that Andy York did during the 3D scan event at Shildon. When he was in his early years (and others of us were working our tails off trying to make the thing work... ) there were photos of E-Train everywhere. It was in every kids book on trains, all over the world, and it became an icon. To some of us it still is........

 

On the coupling business I think you've missed the point. Both E-Train and P-Train are ARTICULATED so any sort of 'standard' coupler not only won't work, they're irrelevant. With an articulated model either the bogie itself has to split in half, as Hornby did with their P-Train model, or the entire bogie effectively becomes the coupler, as Jason is doing with the E-Train. The real thing never had couplers of any sort, so neither has the model.

Edited June 25, 2015 by Mr_Tilt

[mikeharvey22]

In the spirit of full disclosure, I had lobbied hard for a four foot long box about three inches square which would hold the entire train in one piece. I was overruled by more practical, if less imaginative types in the company (OK, he owns the place...) who suggested that this might be... ummmm.... somewhat prone to shipping damage. Besides, it made the format of the book that we promised to include somewhat more problematic. But, oh, the possibilities.....

 

Bill Schneider

Rapido Trains

I have visions of the book being printed on a 4 foot wide parchment scroll with occasional spots of hydraulic fluid to give it that 1970s aged effect.

 

Mike

[tetsudofan]

The entire train is about 46" long. I suggest you make a 4' long cassette and shove EPDM foam around the four sides. It will fit in almost any car, even if you don't have a back seat!

 

-Jason

 

Thanks for the information Jason, should just fit in a Train-Safe 120cm tube - am keeping one tube empty!!

 

Keith

[87004]

The entire train is about 46" long. I suggest you make a 4' long cassette and shove EPDM foam around the four sides. It will fit in almost any car, even if you don't have a back seat!

 

-Jason

So something like this:

 

http://s22.photobucket.com/user/Monpot/media/ff79a58f.jpg.html

 

It's a good job I like Jaffa Cakes. :-)

[QuoitsPlayer]

Going back to the idea of some sort of blanking being fitted between the joint modules and the cars, Kit says, APT-E was originally fitted with rubber between the cars and the joint modules so may I suggest please having something to fill in the gaps as APT-E was originally designed but make it removable for people who don't want/need it. 

[Crewlisle]

...........The comments on line & on this website & others go on about doing the full 14 coach APT-P, which is ridiculous.  The majority of us would be delighted with a five car APT-P & coach close couplings similar to Bachmann’s Blue Pullman.   You say you have been having trouble with your couplings & it could take up to half hour to connect the unit together.  Don’t be too proud to use the same type of couplings used by Bachmann on their Blue Pullman because they WORK!  It takes about five to ten minutes to get the six coach Blue Pullman coupled up & running & it easily goes round second radius curves & up 1 in 35 gradients.

 

 

 

 

..........On the coupling business I think you've missed the point. Both E-Train and P-Train are ARTICULATED so any sort of 'standard' coupler not only won't work, they're irrelevant. With an articulated model either the bogie itself has to split in half, as Hornby did with their P-Train model, or the entire bogie effectively becomes the coupler, as Jason is doing with the E-Train. The real thing never had couplers of any sort, so neither has the model.

 

My apologies about the error of the articulated bogies.  Looking at one of the APT-P websites giving details of formations/bogies it appears that the bogies on the power car & adjacent carriages are standard bogies.  I agree that all the others are articulated.  Would it be possible to have the articuated bogies as per the old Hornby model but using modern technology & electronics?  Couplers like the Bachmann Blue Pullman uses could be used between the power car & adjacent carriages.

Edited June 25, 2015 by Crewlisle

[Colin_McLeod]

I suspect the bogies etc are already designed at this stage.

[Crewlisle]

I suspect the bogies etc are already designed at this stage.

 

I was referring to the APT-P not the APT-E.  Further to my comments in 1179 on 24th June, if Rapido do decide to do the APT-P - when do you want my deposit?

[phil-b259]

Going back to the idea of some sort of blanking being fitted between the joint modules and the cars, Kit says, APT-E was originally fitted with rubber between the cars and the joint modules so may I suggest please having something to fill in the gaps as APT-E was originally designed but make it removable for people who don't want/need it. 

 

He also says they were ripped to pieces before the train was clear of Derby on its first run and were not replaced. As such not having them is entirely prototypical - though I apreciate that the nature of 2nd radius curves makes the dyalight far more noticable than on the prototype.

Edited June 26, 2015 by phil-b259

[Mr_Tilt]

Re the real diaphragms, I spent most of that first run lying on my stomach in the centre joint module with my head out underneath the missing floor to observe the wheelsets! That was because I'd been aboard the POP-Train when it went violently unstable with the original Swinging Arm bogies and high conicity wheelsets so I knew what to look out for if E-Train exhibited the same problem. As it happened we never went fast enough on that first run to reach the instability speed so I was pretty much redundant. When the diaphragm ripped from top to bottom the lower part that was still attached to the joint module kept flying across and hitting me on the shoulder, which I thought was someone trying to gain my attention, so I kept on turning round, only to see no-one..... 

 

Re the APT-P bogie configuration, the Power Cars, the Driving Trailer Seconds and the Trailer Brake Firsts all had non-articulated bogies at one end, or both ends in the case of the Power Cars. Those vehicles certainly could use a different type of coupler but it would need to accomodate the tilt function as well as the yaw, which might predicate a totally different type of coupler.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Mr_Tilt

[Colin_McLeod]

 I spent most of that first run lying on my stomach in the centre joint module with my head out underneath the missing floor to observe the wheelsets!

Now there's a bit of detail to include in the Rapido model.

[Mr_Tilt]

Now there's a bit of detail to include in the Rapido model.

 

Ah no, that's only applicable if you back-dated the model to 1972.

 

You'd have to scratchbuild your own SA bogies for a start, and the best of luck with that, poor Shane's being working on his for ages now! Plus you'd need to blank off many of the body-side grilles etc. as Jason's model is depicted as it is now, at Shildon, which is pretty much as it was when we took it to the NRM York in 1976.

[Wolf27]

My etched brass version will be as built...

 

Cheers

 

Shane

[Colin_McLeod]

Ah no, that's only applicable if you back-dated the model to 1972.......as Jason's model is depicted as it is now, at Shildon, which is pretty much as it was when we took it to the NRM York in 1976.

So is the sandwich still there then??

[Mr_Tilt]

So is the sandwich still there then??

 

It will be when I've found a suitable, long lived substitute.

 

Current targets are the display foods you see in cafe windows, but you wouldn't BELIEVE how  expensive they are!! 

[BernardTPM]

Scratchbuild one?

[Mr_Tilt]

Scratchbuild one?

 

Don't think I haven't thought of that, including the moulding of a real, but stale, one in silicone rubber and then casting it in resin.

 

That's Plan B if we can't afford a pukka one.

[ColinK]

I thought pukka made pies, not sandwiches.

[Phil Clarke 1980]

Not long now !!