The Official Rapido APT-E Thread

[bubbles2]

On 07/09/2021 at 06:44, StuAllen said:

Has anyone got any tips for troubleshooting a dead power car? I haven’t run my APT-e since originally receiving it when it worked fine. I haven’t had space to build my layout after moving home causing the lack of running - I’ve finally made room and am at the planning stage so wanted to try the ATP-E through potential point work I had mocked up, but one of the power cars didn’t have power, I checked the connection with the coach and it seemed fine, so wasn’t sure what to try next. 

Did you sort your dead power car? I have a similar problem, mine is dc no sound, if I put power direct to the motor the motor runs fine, I’ve coupled both power cars together but It still won’t run :-(

[StuAllen]

2 minutes ago, bubbles2 said:

Did you sort your dead power car?

Yes, but I haven’t managed to test it fully. When I ran the power cars back to back both worked, so I’m assuming it was a connection issue. Unfortunately I haven’t got my layout setup so haven’t been able to retest the whole train.

[bubbles2]

7 minutes ago, StuAllen said:

Yes, but I haven’t managed to test it fully. When I ran the power cars back to back both worked, so I’m assuming it was a connection issue. Unfortunately I haven’t got my layout setup so haven’t been able to retest the whole train.

Thanks for your prompt reply, I’m please you got yours sorted, I think it must be the chip gone open circuit, could maybe bypass the chip, the other power car runs on its own. Will probably give Rapido UK a call.

[Roddy Angus]

Don't quote me on this, but I think both power cars need to be connected together for both to run.  I think they are both controlled by a single DCC chip.

 

Regards

 

Roddy 

[bubbles2]

1 hour ago, Roddy Angus said:

Don't quote me on this, but I think both power cars need to be connected together for both to run.  I think they are both controlled by a single DCC chip.

 

Regards

 

Roddy 

Yes I think you’re right, I’ve just tried the power cars coupled together without trailer cars and both run, so I guess I’m looking at a connection fault on one of the trailer cars.

Edited May 6, 2022 by bubbles2

[Pete the Elaner]

5 hours ago, Roddy Angus said:

Don't quote me on this, but I think both power cars need to be connected together for both to run.  I think they are both controlled by a single DCC chip.

 

Regards

 

Roddy 

Rapido designed a fiddly but clever connector specifically to allow this. Both power cars have their own speakers but the whole train runs from 1 decoder.

[bubbles2]

I have connected the power cars and the trailer cars together into the 4 car set and both power cars are now running as they should so it looks like  one of the trailer car connections was not quite together correctly, this was the first time the 4 car set has been apart since purchased back in 2016, I can't believe it was that long ago, it usually lives on the layout or on a removeable storage track.

[BRBlackForever]

Shortly after receiving my set the sound decoder blew whilst running in dc mode on my club’s layout. After a bit of faffery this was replaced by Rapido, however, In fear of it happening again on my club’s layout I decided not to fit the replacement decoder and bought a Bachmann 21 pin blanking plug. Since this has been fitted The directional lighting has not been working. It is the type of blanking plate with the diodes fitted. I know there are others that don’t have these which I’ve yet to try. Any thoughts as to what the problem might be? Is the blanking plug supplied by Rapido for analogue sets special in some way?

 

Andy

[rapidoandy]

11 hours ago, BRBlackForever said:

Shortly after receiving my set the sound decoder blew whilst running in dc mode on my club’s layout. After a bit of faffery this was replaced by Rapido, however, In fear of it happening again on my club’s layout I decided not to fit the replacement decoder and bought a Bachmann 21 pin blanking plug. Since this has been fitted The directional lighting has not been working. It is the type of blanking plate with the diodes fitted. I know there are others that don’t have these which I’ve yet to try. Any thoughts as to what the problem might be? Is the blanking plug supplied by Rapido for analogue sets special in some way?

 

Andy

Hi Andy,

 

From memory it shouldn’t be. Drop us a line via the warranty form and we will get it sorted one way or another or replace the power car. I dislike reading that customers have faulty models - ping us a message and I will get our man on it for you.

 

Andy

[BRBlackForever]

1 hour ago, rapidoandy said:

Hi Andy,

 

From memory it shouldn’t be. Drop us a line via the warranty form and we will get it sorted one way or another or replace the power car. I dislike reading that customers have faulty models - ping us a message and I will get our man on it for you.

 

Andy

Hi, will do thanks! The lights were working with the decoder fitted originally. Neither end works now so I think It’s related to the blanking plate. I might pop the replacement decoder in and test it at home. Am I likely have issues running with an H&M duette? The club layout that blew the decoder was a gaugemaster. 

[BRBlackForever]

On 01/10/2022 at 12:53, rapidoandy said:

Hi Andy,

 

From memory it shouldn’t be. Drop us a line via the warranty form and we will get it sorted one way or another or replace the power car. I dislike reading that customers have faulty models - ping us a message and I will get our man on it for you.

 

Andy

 

On 01/10/2022 at 14:31, BRBlackForever said:

Hi, will do thanks! The lights were working with the decoder fitted originally. Neither end works now so I think It’s related to the blanking plate. I might pop the replacement decoder in and test it at home. Am I likely have issues running with an H&M duette? The club layout that blew the decoder was a gaugemaster. 

I’ve just tried the replacement decoder and all is well including directional lights. But as soon as the blanking plate is installed the lights don’t work. 

Edited November 2, 2022 by BRBlackForever
Just fitted a Rapido supplied blanking plate. All is now well with the lights!

[keysan]

On 04/07/2014 at 15:16, rapidotrains said:

 

The DCC version does indeed work on DC track and you will hear the engine sounds.  As for whether you can use the user-controlled sounds, that depends on what extra doo-dads you have attached to your DC system.  The decoder is a LokSound.

 

-Jason

Hi can any advice if the sound works through both speakers on DC?

[Mr_Tilt]

Mine does just that on DC. You can hear both Power Cars independently as they pass by.

[keysan]

1 hour ago, Mr_Tilt said:

Mine does just that on DC. You can hear both Power Cars independently as they pass by.

Thank you for your reply Kit, I really think you should change your name to Sir Tilt! I watched your two videos on YouTube last night, excellent.

 

Would you mind answering this for me. 

 

What's always puzzled my is why the APT-E was gas turbine and not straight electric. I have read this was due to the oil crisis but then you had the HST. However, I have always thought it was for testing purposes to keep it local to Derby? How much of the 22,000 was accumulated on the test tracks?

 

Kind regards 

 

Ian  

 

 

[Mr_Tilt]

When the project was initiated the idea was for ALL passenger trains on BR to be APTs eventually, but at that time the majority of routes weren't electrified, so the service trains would have had to have two forms of motive power. 25 Kv for the WCML, which was intended to be wholly electrified, and 'something else' for the non-electric routes. Diesels at the time were just too heavy to produce the required power/weight ratio to get the trains up to their intended 150 mph speed in a decent distance, the relatively light weight Paxman Valenta didn't exist until later. Gas turbines enabled the E-Train to run anywhere for its test programme, and yet still have a high power/weight ratio to produce the desired performance.

 

The 1973 fuel crisis knocked all that on the head however as the poor fuel consumption of the turbines rendered them uneconomic and after that the non-electric service APTs were toast. But by then the HST programme was in full swing and effectively negated the need for a non-electric APT, even though the lack of tilt meant they could only go fast on the straights.

 

As for the test mileage, the majority of it was done on the Midland Main Line, and the Old Dalby track was used mainly for tests which were potentially dangerous, like the fully failed tilt system tests, and for initial trails, like those to check out the 'new' E1T bogies after Rebuild 1 in 1972-3.

[keysan]

That clears that one up then for prosperity. 

 

Another question if I may. 

 

I believe Onslaught was acquired to test the tilt pack which I am assuming would have been out of gauge. Hence the acquisition of the Hastings coach Lab 4 for further tests/development work. I have often wondered why Glory 818 survived so long at Swindon works. Was it a pet / apprentice / training loco or a source of spares for Onslaught and the project? any thoughts?

 

Ian 

 

 

[Mr_Tilt]

Not really, no.

 

'Onslaught' was obtained to test the APT-P Power Car BP-17a bogie and transmission, but without a working tilt system as it would surely have been out of gauge when tilted.

 

The idea was to retain the existing diesel hydraulic setup at one end and install an APT-P traction motor, cardan shaft and bogie at the other with a fixed pantograph to collect the current. It never happened and no work was ever done on '832', she just sat in the RTC Yard until she was rescued for restoration. Shane Wilton has built a superb model of her in the intended form though, complete in RTC Red-Blue colour scheme! 👍

 

We did build 'Trestrol', Lab 24, to test the transmission and bogies eventually, and that COULD tilt as well, complete with an anti-tilt pantograph which wasn't live but proved the dynamics of the idea. It also tested the Mk 4 tilt pack, which was only fitted to the APT-P Power Cars, and that was above floor level, unlike the Trailer Car Mk 5 packs which were under the Trailer Car floors.

 

Hastings, Lab 4, was obtained to test the APT-P non-articulated Trailer Car bogies, the H4Xs, later BP-12s, and the general APT-P tilt system, but it didn't use the Mk 5 packs as they hadn't been designed by then. We built two Mk 3 tilt packs that had interchangeable components such as pumps, filters, valves etc. so we could determine the best ones to use for the production Mk4 & 5 packs. 

 

It's an obscure bit of APT history but nevertheless interesting I feel.

Edited November 22, 2022 by Mr_Tilt

[RapidoCorbs]

A quick heads-up on APT-Es.

 

DC / Analogue APT-Es are available to purchase.

When we released our DCC-only spoof livery APT-Es, lots of people asked if we would consider offering a DC/Analogue version, well now we do!

Both the blue/grey and swallow versions can be ordered from our website for £379.95 per set (2 power cars and 2 coaches), plus there are the last few DCC Sound versions for £479.95 per set:

 

https://rapidotrains.co.uk/apt-e/

 

Limited stock available so get your order in quickly!

 

 

 

 

[Mr_Tilt]

That DOES look good in the Inter City scheme, it really works with the E-Train shape. 👍

[UP 4000]

Locomotion Shildon have put up a video with Curator with a Camera on the APT-E,

 

If your interested here's the link,

 

 

[Mr_Tilt]

Even more on E-Train, over this last week we moved it outside, split it into individual vehicles, turned TC2 the right way round and re-assembled it in 3 car form, PC1-TC2-PC2, and put it back on the same road it came from. TC1, mounted on the newly refurbished handling dollies, is sitting in front of PC2 for now, but will eventually go on its own road mounted on the SA and E1T bogies with the 3 car set alongside it.

 

Or I think that's what's going to happen anyway, communications with the higher management at the NRM is never easy.......😒

[Michael Hodgson]

5 hours ago, UP 4000 said:

Locomotion Shildon have put up a video with Curator with a Camera on the APT-E,

 

If your interested here's the link,

 

 

IBM computers used to have similar rectangular push-buttons in various colours with legends on them.

Sometime a bored computer operator would remove the coloured buttons and re-distribute them around the various switches, which made the equipment extremly confusing to the bloke on next shift!  And of course 1st April was the ideal date for such practical jokes.

[Bucoops]

10 hours ago, Mr_Tilt said:

Even more on E-Train, over this last week we moved it outside, split it into individual vehicles, turned TC2 the right way round and re-assembled it in 3 car form, PC1-TC2-PC2, and put it back on the same road it came from. TC1, mounted on the newly refurbished handling dollies, is sitting in front of PC2 for now, but will eventually go on its own road mounted on the SA and E1T bogies with the 3 car set alongside it.

 

Or I think that's what's going to happen anyway, communications with the higher management at the NRM is never easy.......😒

 

I've seen a few facebook posts about the move. Seems a little strange to split it up in this manner but I guess in it's full configuration it's quite long and they don't have many places they can keep it as all 4? 

Edited April 2, 2023 by Bucoops

[Mr_Tilt]

The Locomotion Hall was designed around APT-E's length actually and for the last 19 years it's all been in there on the same road but split into two parts. There was a vast gap between TC1 and TC2 which was apparently required by the fire regulations, but that reason has been poo-poo'd recently. 

 

The Support and Conservation Group have been lobbying for many years to put it all back together in one piece with the Trailer Cars the correct way round and all vehicles properly 'coupled' so we could take the public right through the train from one end to the other. However recent 'rulings' by some parties at the NRM have prevented the public from entering the train, they won't even let US into it!

 

Quite what all that's about is a mystery and it's difficult, if not impossible, for us to get a straight answer out of anyone at the NRM. I can only hope that sanity will prevail and we can return to the situation as was originally intended when we started preservation of the train in 2000.

[Michael Hodgson]

 

 

The APT strikes me as an odd thing for the NRM to want in its collection.  I see the purpose of museums as being about history and the past, while the APT project was a future that never existed because it was (controversially) cancelled by the government of the day.  Whilst the APT-E is indeed a real train from the past, it certainly wasn't a typical train that a previous generation used to go to work every day or the toffs used to travel in style to the Highlands for the Glorious Twelfth, or part of the environment in every community up and down the country.  The -E was there for engineering development and research, not for everyday passenger use.

 

There was massive public interest, and I believe considerable enthusiam for these new super trains despite all the adverse publicity from a bunch of journalists who clearly didn't deserve the free drinks they were evidently plied with.  Like the TSR-2 it was a project cancelled by government writing off vast amounts of taxpayers money that had already been invested in what was widely considered to be a worthwhile and world beating technological development. 

 

Museum managements tend to see their job more as showmen, trying to attract visitor, rather than merely "curating" historical records and artefacts, or putting it another way, safeguarding a collection of old stuff that nobody wants or uses any more.  So APT would have been seen by museum management as an attraction worth having on display, as it should help bring in the punters and justifying their existence.  Preserving it probably also had some support in the vague hope that the next government might reverse the decision and resume where they left off, whereas of course TSR-2 wasn't just scrapped, the Government deliberately shredded all the drawings etc to prevent such a reversal of the decision.