Cornish Rail Improvements

[Cornish Triang Paul]

The FGW proposals for unit cascades from IEP has now been submitted to DfT.

 

Will post more details when I can.

[Cornish Triang Paul]

Oh dear ! First some OK news. It seems despite being told verbally to expect turbos, it seems probable now that we shall get 158s for the mainline locals now.

 

The bad news (or long tearm good news ? ) is that the refurbishment of the Night Riviera has been put "ON HOLD" until the new franchise announcement mid next year. This may mean a new stock order if its a long term franchise but that is just my thinking.

We are still getting the extra SLEP and SO so that's a 5 sleeper coach a day train for next summer.

Everything else is as per announcements.

 

Wait until the press get hold of this!!

[Horizontal]

158s, like the 'Voyagers', 150s, 142s, etc etc, from the passenger's point of view, are not and have never been fit for purpose - on any part of the network!

'Sad to hear that the South-West is now being denied one of the few British classes of DMU that are.

 

:-(

[Glorious NSE]

Oh dear ! First some OK news. It seems despite being told verbally to expect turbos, it seems probable now that we shall get 158s for the mainline locals now.

 

Makes sense from a clearances point of view I would guess - not ideal for folk with stuff (bikes, wheelchairs, prams, surfboards) to cart about, but they can (as SWT have shown) be made into a very comfortable and reliable conveyance if FGW approach the mid life refurb in a positive way?

 

Not sure what makes the likes of a 150 "not fit for purpose" but a 165 "fit for purpose" from a passenger point of view...

[Horizontal]

Not sure what makes the likes of a 150 "not fit for purpose" but a 165 "fit for purpose" from a passenger point of view...

IMO, the 166 units in general are much more pleasant to ride on from the point of view of noise levels and seating comfort - The last 159 I rode in from Waterloo to Basingstoke, was what I can only describe as an absolutely appalling experience, and I'm glad that I didn't have to pay for the privilege of riding in it. - With an overheated engine radiator's fan roaring away under the floor, 'singing' final drives, and blown exhausts. I was half-deaf by the time I got off!

 

Oh yes, and try travelling in a 2-car 158, 150, or 142 in the rush hour into any Northern City - At least SWT trains provide a reasonable number of carriages on their services unlike other train operators elsewhere in the UK - But there again, I suppose that is the result of previous government policies and railway management decisions!

 

:-)

[Glorious NSE]

I doubt very much that they would have been 166s - too many Turbo's will still be needed in other places to assume that IMHO.

 

More likely is the 165 - which has the same basic spec of interior as the 150, 2+3 seating, no aircon (on the Thames fleet - it's been retrofitted to Chiltern's) - probably a little better insulation, especially at the doors, but the noise won't be lots different in the summer as you'll have all the windows open, it's got longer coaches, which is nice - but the whole point of MUs should be that you don't have to be stuck with running just one...

 

Horses for courses, but from Exeter to London we usually try and go via SWT as the interior is vastly superior, much more comfortable seating than FGW's HSTs, and you're still allowed a decent view!

 

Any train anywhere can get unpleasant when it gets overcrowded...by the same standard practically every train ever built is "not and has never been fit for purpose"!

[Not Captain Kernow]

The more generous loading gauge of the 165s may have been useful, but I think the 158s would be better suited, having doors at the end of the vehicles is more like an Intercity-style unit, rather than the 1/3 2/3 suburban layout of the 165s.  The key question really is will there be enough to run at four cars instead of two cars, especially given the half-hourly service will no doubt increase demand on the main line.

[brianusa]

Its hard to believe in this day and age there are actually passenger trains without air conditioning!  Rather like the early days in cars when it was eschewed as being rather sissy like.  Now try and find a car without A/C!

 

Brian.

[Cornish Triang Paul]

I had thought that the flexibility with the 158s with our 150\153s was a selling point. As for air con, give me opening windows any day !

[Siberian Snooper]

Its hard to believe in this day and age there are actually passenger trains without air conditioning!  Rather like the early days in cars when it was eschewed as being rather sissy like.  Now try and find a car without A/C!

 

Brian.

The same reason as buses, large doors with short distances between stops which require them to be opened and thus re admit the cold/hot air, it's un-economical, trying to heat/cool large volumes of air continuously. This is less of a problem on vestibule stock as there is the additional door to the seating saloon.

 

In my car I switch the a/c off on short journeys and open the windows instead as the through put of air cools the inside quicker than the a/c.

[brianusa]

The comments referred to trains and the discomfort of passengers on those hot days which even Plymouth experiences these days, especially when non A/C trains are used on longer routes which seems to be quite common.  All buses and trains over here, even commuters, are air conditioned.

 

I do however, open windows and sun roof on the car and let the breeze blow through my hair, on occasion!!!

 

Brian.

[lmsforever]

A good solution for the south west would be the Meridians from the Midland when they are cascaded they have good capacity and variable lengths for different services,plus they are fairly new and Stagecoach have looked after them.

[Kris]

I would far rather travel on a 158 than a 150 or 142. I have always found them more comfortable, that's not to say that they couldn't be better however. 

[Horizontal]

'Have just read in my SRS 'Signalling Record' Issue 166, that it is Notwork Rail's intention to have the Plymouth - Penzance section fully controlled from Didcot by Christmas 2018

 

:-)

[phil-b259]

The same reason as buses, large doors with short distances between stops which require them to be opened and thus re admit the cold/hot air, it's un-economical, trying to heat/cool large volumes of air continuously.

If that's the case then why has every EMU / DMU over the past decade or so been fitted with it - heck even London Underground now has it on the new S stock which has a very frequent stopping pattern plus lots of doors.

 

As someone else has pointed out passengers / customers demand more these days. Back when air con was missing from all but the most expensive cars and the most luxurious offices people were quite happy to accept opening windows and basic heaters under the seats. These days pretty much all cars - even the cheapest have air con, Bluetooth and power sockets for electronic devices. Most scheduled coach services are also similarly equipped and If train companies don't keep up then in the eyes of the public a train trip ceases to become as attractive as other modes when it comes to non essential journeys.

[Glorious NSE]

The key question really is will there be enough to run at four cars instead of two cars, especially given the half-hourly service will no doubt increase demand on the main line.

 

158s are also easily re-configurable into 3s by splitting sets, as FGW (and Wessex before them) have already done, so lots of options. Definately wants more than 2's though!

 

As someone else has pointed out passengers / customers demand more these days. Back when air con was missing from all but the most expensive cars and the most luxurious offices people were quite happy to accept opening windows and basic heaters under the seats. These days pretty much all cars - even the cheapest have air con, Bluetooth and power sockets for electronic devices. Most scheduled coach services are also similarly equipped and If train companies don't keep up then in the eyes of the public a train trip ceases to become as attractive as other modes when it comes to non essential journeys.

 

I would broadly agree with that (and add free WiFi to your list) - the issue with "legacy" rolling stock is that there isn't lots of spare power to add these kinds of things if they weren't designed in originally. It might be that if operators/leasing companies get their act together then on these units heavy overhauls then some of the modern traction package improvements could free up enough power to allow it...

[brianusa]

While I am not privy to all the developments or lack thereof of contemporary rolling stock, the question must be asked why are so many out of date units still around.  Admittedly any information I have is from sites such as this and magazines, etc, but it they are so underpowered as to just manage to propel themselves along, why on earth were they built in the first place?  I should think it unlikely that Siemens, Hitachi, et al would even contemplate building trains without a modicum of luxury and convenience for their passengers an design them accordingly.  There was a reason that local short distance trains did not need any amenities but in 'our' case in the West Country, a journey from Penzance to Newton, Exeter or even further afield is certainly not a short journey.

 

I read of many refits and updates but most of these units are old to begin with.  How many time does one refurb an old car before it makes more sense to buy a new one?   Of course, the standard  response is - no money!  How many times have we heard this from governments over the years while stock and infrastructure goes from bad to worse.  I suppose the West Country should be glad that it at least still has HSTs but they are really past their sell by date also and will need serious money for their replacement.  Don't even talk about weeds!!

 

Brian.

[aforsyth]

'Have just read in my SRS 'Signalling Record' Issue 166, that it is Notwork Rail's intention to have the Plymouth - Penzance section fully controlled from Didcot by Christmas 2018

 

:-)

 

Not sure whether this has been answered elsewhere on this forum, but how does this 'intention' affect all the railwaymen/women who man the existing signal boxes that are getting replaced? Are different roles being offered to them by NR?

 

Also - I saw an article recently about many Scottish signal boxes attaining listed status as they are taken out of service - will there be anything similar for any of the Cornish 'boxes? Will any heritage railways benefit from the semaphores and signalling equipment?

 

Like many others, I'm going to need to make a pilgrimage down there again before it's all gone. 

 

 

Thanks,

Alan

[marky7890]

The boxes at Lostwithiel and Par are now listed, but none of the others are.

 

I wonder if tokens and staff will still be required the single sections, considering as many are released from the signal boxes, like at St Blazey and Goonbarrow. I also wonder if the ground frames at Coombe Junction and Bere Alston will still be worked by the train crew.

[phil-b259]

Not sure whether this has been answered elsewhere on this forum, but how does this 'intention' affect all the railwaymen/women who man the existing signal boxes that are getting replaced? Are different roles being offered to them by NR?

Using the Arun Valley and the (delayed) Coastway East schemes as examples, the signalmen will officially made redundant upon commissioning (if the scheme is delayed then NR have to try and get the signalmen to agree to stay on, they cannot be forced to). If indaviduals signalmen wish then they can apply for jobs at the new ROC and in most cases I believe that an such applicants would be successfull. Also it's worth noting that thanks to HSE regulations regarding those whose work involves staring at VDU screens all day (must have a decent break every 30monutes or so, etc) the number of staff required is grater than you might think. Against that of course each workstation in a ROC will be able (thanks to automatic route setting and OD crossings, etc) will be able to cover a very wide area.

 

The BIG issue here with Cornwall, as was the case with the LSWR route via Yeovil, is the location of the ROC itself. For the LSWR route the ROC is at Basingstoke - too far to commute for most of the signalmen made redundant by the scheme. With Cornwall, the ROC will be at Didcot, meaning any Cornish signalmen wanting to continue in that job will have to move house, uproot their family, etc.

 

Will any heritage railways benefit from the semaphores and signalling equipment?

 

 

Possibly - though the days of handing it straight over on the sly as it were are over - if caught you are sacked immediately. All redundant equipment is in theory recovered for reuse within NR, recycling or selling on to others - but given NRs current policy is to remove all redundant assests at time of commissioning the quality of any recovered equipment is open to question (as evidenced by an entire signal gantry at Pullborough that was simply felled by gas axe with all it's fittings left on it - leaving the arm bent when it got the ground)

[Horizontal]

The boxes at Lostwithiel and Par are now listed, but none of the others are.

 

I wonder if tokens and staff will still be required the single sections, considering as many are released from the signal boxes, like at St Blazey and Goonbarrow. I also wonder if the ground frames at Coombe Junction and Bere Alston will still be worked by the train crew.

Very probably the Train Staffs (Please se my earlier posts)

 

:-)

[Rugd1022]

Not sure whether this has been answered elsewhere on this forum, but how does this 'intention' affect all the railwaymen/women who man the existing signal boxes that are getting replaced? Are different roles being offered to them by NR?

 

Also - I saw an article recently about many Scottish signal boxes attaining listed status as they are taken out of service - will there be anything similar for any of the Cornish 'boxes? Will any heritage railways benefit from the semaphores and signalling equipment?

 

Like many others, I'm going to need to make a pilgrimage down there again before it's all gone. 

 

 

Thanks,

Alan

 

You're certainly not alone there Alan, I'm planning a trip to Cornwall right now, with the intention of bagging as many photos of the old infrastructure as possible. I've done three trips like this before, driving down from Rugby to Penzance and back in a day, stopping off here there and everywhere en route. Tiring but well worth the effort, but with breaks for food / rest etc it can be done safely. The second trip proved a bit of a dissapointment on returning home though, as I found none of the photos I thought I'd taken were actually on the camera's memory card! Still, the views were nice...

 

Whatever happens, let's hope our friends and colleagues in NR do find useful further employment elsewhere, once the old baxes have (sadly) been swept away.

[The Stationmaster]

Best of luck Nidge - fortunately I photographed quite  a lot of signals in Cornwall 20 years ago before they got 'dumbo' ladders with cages although one or two bracket structures had even by then had proper timbered landings replaced with some sort of metal grid.  And even more fortunately, and much nearer to 50 years ago, I managed a few pics of some of the long gone, and far more interesting, signals than can be found in the county nowadays.

[Rugd1022]

Cheers Mike - looking forward to crossing the Tamar again very soon. It's a case of making up for mistakes made in the past after photographing a lot of the semaphores in 1983, then subsequently 'losing' all of the negs and prints in a subsequent house move two years later (six 3- exposure films in the bag at the time, all gone!).  I'm still particularly miffed that Bodmin Road was amongst them as it was still very 'GWR' in appearance then with it's lovely lower quads intact.

[The Stationmaster]

Cheers Mike - looking forward to crossing the Tamar again very soon. It's a case of making up for mistakes made in the past after photographing a lot of the semaphores in 1983, then subsequently 'losing' all of the negs and prints in a subsequent house move two years later (six 3- exposure films in the bag at the time, all gone!).  I'm still particularly miffed that Bodmin Road was amongst them as it was still very 'GWR' in appearance then with it's lovely lower quads intact.

The only Bodmin Road signal pic I've got is the Starter from the Up Siding next to thh branch - including as well of course the fascinating water tower which could serve two roads.