Railroad Barclay

[Catweasel]

Had an email announcing the Bagnall 0-4-0 shunter in the railroad range. Would this have the generic Smokey Joe type of layout?  If so, it would be a shame because of the gearing of it but that can be fixed.  

Edited July 15, 2014 by Catweasel

[Hroth]

Its the same chassis as all the Railroad/Freelance industrial/Thomas 0-4-0 locos, the giveaway is the can motor visible under the running plate between the wheels, and the giant fixed Triang style couplings.  It'll go like a scalded cat on full throttle.  Fixes for the gearing have been published in various magazines recently, but they all seem a bit of a faff.  Its a pity that Hornby can't do something a little more basic using a modern solution like the excellent mechanism that powers the Sentinel, rather than a chassis that first saw the light of day in the late 70's.

 

 

Edit: General tidy up...

Edited July 16, 2014 by Hroth

[Catweasel]

Must be down to the bean counters and the fact that it's aimed at the, shall we say, less experienced owner. I must admit that I quite like the sound of one with sensible gearing and Bagnall wheels from  Markits, if available. DCC of course. 

[Phil Parker]

I'd love to see a re-designed 0-4-0 chassis too. Some of those locos could be very tempting projects if they ran at shunting speeds.

 

However, it IS possible to re-wheel the chassis by reaming out the axle holes for brass bearings and then replacing the mechanism with something better. My Percy runs as well as any loco after a bit of work:

 

 

Romford wheels, Branchlines motor/gearbox. Gibson crossheads.

 

Incidentally, why is the thread title Barclay, shouldn't it be Bagnall?

[Hroth]

I'd love to see a re-designed 0-4-0 chassis too. Some of those locos could be very tempting projects if they ran at shunting speeds.

 

However, it IS possible to re-wheel the chassis by reaming out the axle holes for brass bearings and then replacing the mechanism with something better. My Percy runs as well as any loco after a bit of work:

 

remotored chassis.jpg

 

Romford wheels, Branchlines motor/gearbox. Gibson crossheads.

 

Incidentally, why is the thread title Barclay, shouldn't it be Bagnall?

Probably because the chassis is also used in the Hornby Class 06 Diesel which IS a Barclay!

 

btw  After all that re-engineering, why didn't you do the decent thing and give it a new chassis too? 

[Phil Parker]

Probably because the chassis is also used in the Hornby Class 06 Diesel which IS a Barclay!

 

btw  After all that re-engineering, why didn't you do the decent thing and give it a new chassis too? 

It's also under the Caledonian pug...

 

Reengineering the chassis would cost tens of thousands. For the train set market, it probably doesn't make sense.

[Intercity125]

I can't believe that Hornby bring out a shunting locomotive with the same chassis/motor as used in the toy trains like the Caledonian pug, GWR 101, etc.

 

Sadly I have no choice but to use Mallard to shunt the good yard and leave the Bagnall to haul the express to Edinburgh...........

[Hroth]

It's also under the Caledonian pug...

 

Reengineering the chassis would cost tens of thousands. For the train set market, it probably doesn't make sense.

I mainly meant that after your re-engineering of the drivetrain and wheels, the plastic Percy chassis looked a bit out of place.

 

As for Hornby re-engineering their chassis/motor combination, they've relied on it since 1978, when the 101 was introduced, so its probably paid for itself.  And that was an upgrade of sorts itself for the old Triang 0-4-0 chassis.  A modern upgrade for even the toy train market might well pay for itself by encouraging people to think that even if they've started with a "toy", it's a realistic toy with potential for hobbyists too.

 

That dratted chassis is also under those strange chunky tanks R2940/3211/3212.

 

It gets everywhere!

 

[Phil Parker]

The plastic chassis is fundamentally accurate in that the axles line up so bushing and wheeling is easier than scratchbuilding something. And it is under Percy so there isn't prototype fidelity to worry about.

 

A new RTR chassis would be lovely but if it ran at scale speeds, the drive train would cost more than the current Scalextric setup. That makes the finished loco more expensive, taking it out of the train set market. Once in the scale market, people will complain about the body distorted to fit the chassis.

[Mark Saunders]

I find it strange that all the comment is on the choice of chassis/motor for a model in the "Railroad" range!

 

When the most important question would be how does it compare with the real thing and are there any photographs of one?

 

Mark Saunders

[Nile]

I'm wondering if any of those criticising the chassis have actually tried one from a recent production run. I tried one with a Bachmann trainset controller and was surprised at how well it ran. While it won't run quite as slowly as the new Sentinel (which is double the price), with a decent controller it should be quite use-able.

[Culmhead]

Like Nile, I have found that slow speed running with this chassis can be very good, especially on the newer locos. I use a 35 year old AGW controller, which IMHO is superb and hasn't given up the ghost yet! I do find that the cheap trainset controllers are dreadful in this respect!

 

Cheers, Aidan.

[papagolfjuliet]

 

When the most important question would be how does it compare with the real thing and are there any photographs of one?

 

 

The body is loosely based on this: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/foxfield/Bagnall_4wD_3207_as_restored_2002.jpg

[Talltim]

It looks like a cross between that and some of the six wheeled versions. The cab looks pretty good for a bit of Bagnall bashing on a more appropriate chassis

[Hroth]

I'm wondering if any of those criticising the chassis have actually tried one from a recent production run. I tried one with a Bachmann trainset controller and was surprised at how well it ran. While it won't run quite as slowly as the new Sentinel (which is double the price), with a decent controller it should be quite usIts trI have found that performance 

I have found that performance can differ depending on the controller used.  After some pretty spectacular running with Hornby trainset controllers (eg R965 and R8250), I found that both my Smokey Joe and my class 06 ran far more controllably with ancient H&M Duette and Clipper controllers. I wonder what they run like when converted to DCC?

[Multiple identity account]

For those of you'll who want to know about the newer models, I just picked up a Caledonia Railways 0-4-0 Pug and I am absolutely stunned with it's running qualities. The slow running is indeed good and it's top speed is dramatically reduced compared to my older 0-4-0s. I will post a video if you'll want me to.

PS: I use my trusty "R8250 Standard Hornby Controller"

[bigherb]

I thought I would take a punt on one for only £25 and see what I could do with it, thoughts of making an 0-6-0 chassis for it. But I can confirm that the running is a very big improvement on the earlier versions, top speed is only 72 mph and will crawl along at just under 2 mph when cogging starts and the couplings chatter quite impressed with it and it doesn't even waddle. Think I might just drill the chassis and add some fly cranks a bit of detailing and a lick of Umber paint.

 

 

[locoholic]

Another vote here for the Bagnall - also using a standard Bachmann controller, it runs very smoothly at slow speeds, and copes well with dead frog points. It's also a lot heavier than I was expecting.

 

I was thinking of fitting the body to a Bachmann class 03 chassis - not sure I'll bother now, although I think it would look a bit better, bearing a passing resemblance to the 6 wheeler in this old advert:

[gardenwall]

Years ago when Percy first came out I found that the performance cound be tamed ( to the extent that it would run in a more compatible way with other locos)  by the simple expedient of fitting a 27ohm 1 watt resistor in series with the motor. It would still pull scale loads too. Don't know if current ones are still the same.

[papagolfjuliet]

Another vote here for the Bagnall - also using a standard Bachmann controller, it runs very smoothly at slow speeds, and copes well with dead frog points. It's also a lot heavier than I was expecting.

 

I was thinking of fitting the body to a Bachmann class 03 chassis - not sure I'll bother now, although I think it would look a bit better, bearing a passing resemblance to the 6 wheeler in this old advert:

 

That advert reminds me that this isn't the first Bagnall diesel to come from Margate. The Tri-ang dock shunter was based on the loco in the top photograph.

[Fat Controller]

That advert reminds me that this isn't the first Bagnall diesel to come from Margate. The Tri-ang dock shunter was based on the loco in the top photograph.

I thought the Dock Shunter owed more to the Brush-Bagnalls built for the Steel Company of Wales' works at Port Talbot?

['CHARD]

What bearing does any of this have on the thread title?

[Hroth]

What bearing does any of this have on the thread title?

I refer my honourable colleague to the answer given in post 5.  Also both begin with B!!!

[pauliebanger]

Mine arrived today and now has DCC sound, an nice hydraulic sound project on a ZIMO decoder and massive stay alive capacitor. Runs as smoothly and slowly as any recent mainline loco I have.

 

The stay alive will take it over dirty track and dead frogs easily.

 

Great addition to the little shunters, yes, it's not as detailed as the superb Sentinel but it has more room inside so decoder is full sized and the speaker is bigger than possible with the Sentinel.

 

Bit of customising, repaint, add jackshaft/longer coupling rods, cut and replace the couplings, this is an inexpensive basis for abit of bashing. BTW it seems to be similar to Dart, but without the face and with clear windows.

 

Great stuff.

 

I just remembered a 'Shunters Club' Pullman 06 I've had for years, never been out of its box. Now where did I put that.........?  Lol.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

 

edit to add P.S. Of course with a decoder onboard, inertia, momentum and top speeds limited to something like reality are a snip to achieve, even if you run it on DC.

Edited July 25, 2014 by pauliebanger

[58050]

Its the same chassis as all the Railroad/Freelance industrial/Thomas 0-4-0 locos, the giveaway is the can motor visible under the running plate between the wheels, and the giant fixed Triang style couplings.  It'll go like a scalded cat on full throttle.  Fixes for the gearing have been published in various magazines recently, but they all seem a bit of a faff.  Its a pity that Hornby can't do something a little more basic using a modern solution like the excellent mechanism that powers the Sentinel, rather than a chassis that first saw the light of day in the late 70's.

 

 

Edit: General tidy up...

 

If I get the speed just right, I can make a Class 06 go around a curve on 2 wheels. Stunt shunting!