hobbyhorse Posted July 29, 2014 Author Share Posted July 29, 2014 Just changing the topic, its our open day this Sunday the 3rd August on the "Bredgar & Wormshill Light Railway" If you fancy a day away from the models and are in the Kent area, its a grand day out. http://www.bwlr.co.uk These photos are from our July open day. If you do come say hello, I'll be on the red engine making all the smoke. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 I find it easier to use round bar as the nuts can be machined as close to scale as possible, plus you keep the accuracy as the bar is always mounted in the collets on the lathe and mill. The parts that are going to fitted are in nicklel silver and to date have not found any hex nickel silver in sizes that would suit our needs, brass is not to much of a problem but the sizes don't always match 7mm nuts and bolts. Plus I like the process in making them, turn the music up and away I go. This kit should be reintroduced as it's a pleasure to build. Simon Hello Simon, all, first let me say that I'm a bit surprised that N15class has disagreed with this post. I was going to say about the hex. crankpin nuts being wrong, but after looking at some photos of L.Ns. they are correct. I'm used to the type that only have two flat faces and two curved sides (cheaper to manufacture) . As you say getting Hex N/S in the sizes that we require is hard work, so milling the hex. on is the better way to go. That apart you would then have to hold the stock in a three jaw chuck (unless you have a Hex. collett, I'm after some ER32 colletts that will hold square stock). That can then bring it's own problems, like run-out Etc. I don't know about you but when I'm turning small stuff like this I tend to use 1/8" stock and then turn it down (I don't tend to use much stock below that size). I do it this way as it tends to stop the stock from "flexing" when cutting. Making parts such as these on the M/Cs is very rewarding and you can say that I made them. That apart if we have the M/Cs lets use them and enjoy using them. I do hope that this kit is reintroduced, as it looks a very nice kit. OzzyO. PS. do you have a digital read out on you mill or lathe? I fitted one on my lathe it starts in this thread about now. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/17222-lathes-mc-tools/page-13 Hope this may help. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Isambarduk Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 OzzyO I agree with all you say! Machining from round bar, using collets, 1/8th stock (I do use 1/16th but it helps to have machining quality rather than the common bending quality) but I agree especially with your: "Making parts such as these on the M/Cs is very rewarding and you can say that I made them." and "That apart if we have the M/Cs lets use them and enjoy using them." David PS You just give a guilt trip with the digital readout! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 David PS You just give a guilt trip with the digital readout! Pray tell why David, have you not fitted one to your M/C yet? OzzyO. PS. not sure why this post looks like this, David's post should be in the quotes box. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Isambarduk Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 "Pray tell why David, have you not fitted one to your M/C yet?" Well, there are just so many hours in a day and just so many of those that I can spend in the workshop where I indulge in (too) many interesting things so not everything that I would like to do gets given top priority. In some/many cases, when I do make or modify a tool, jig, fixture or whatever, I do say to myself "How did I manage without this? I should have done this years ago!" And so it is with fitting digital readouts to my Unimat 3 lathe and Unimat 3 milling machine ... David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Hello Simon, all, first let me say that I'm a bit surprised that N15class has disagreed with this post. I was going to say about the hex. crankpin nuts being wrong, but after looking at some photos of L.Ns. they are correct. I'm used to the type that only have two flat faces and two curved sides (cheaper to manufacture) . As you say getting Hex N/S in the sizes that we require is hard work, so milling the hex. on is the better way to go. That apart you would then have to hold the stock in a three jaw chuck (unless you have a Hex. collett, I'm after some ER32 colletts that will hold square stock). That can then bring it's own problems, like run-out Etc. I don't know about you but when I'm turning small stuff like this I tend to use 1/8" stock and then turn it down (I don't tend to use much stock below that size). I do it this way as it tends to stop the stock from "flexing" when cutting. Making parts such as these on the M/Cs is very rewarding and you can say that I made them. That apart if we have the M/Cs lets use them and enjoy using them. I do hope that this kit is reintroduced, as it looks a very nice kit. OzzyO. PS. do you have a digital read out on you mill or lathe? I fitted one on my lathe it starts in this thread about now. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/17222-lathes-mc-tools/page-13 Hope this may help. Thanks for pointing that out Ozzyo Rating has been corrected a slip of the mouse pad. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fay Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 This kit might make a come back with upgrades from MOK Drop them a bell to register your interest. I am!! sales@modernoutline.co.uk Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobbyhorse Posted July 30, 2014 Author Share Posted July 30, 2014 Hi All Thanks N15 for the correction, I've been watching RM web for years and not had much time to post anything, as I've given up the day job I've got a bit more time now, and it's very rewarding to see the feedback for this build. Like Ozzyo I use standard bar sizes for most of the pattern making and parts that I do, 3/16 and 1/4 in brass and nickle silver. All the M/c tools I use are collet fitted but can also run chucks when needed for larger bars, I do have a few hex collets but because of the cost of these I tend to mostly use round types. Digital readouts are a must in my view, as I've just got home from getting ready for our open day on Sunday I will post some pics of those I use tomorrow. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobbyhorse Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 Just following on from yesterdays post about using larger bars to machine parts, I've found that some very slender parts can be produced with care. This shows a part for a pattern which wasn't used, I tend to make a batch of each part. Like Ozzyo said lets enjoy them ( I must admit to being a bit of a machine hoarder ), am I alone with with this affliction? My lathe and milling machine are both fitted with DRO's, both basic X & Y axis readouts. At the ME exhibition some years ago I purchased these which are very useful, as both are located by clips and can be moved from machine to machine very easily. One is also used on the mill for the Z axis and also on the panto miller. Unfortunately the company that produced them didn't last long, which is a shame. Looking at the modern DRO's the inbuilt functions make using them easy, at some point I might upgrade. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Hello Simon, that looks very interesting, can you please let me know how it works? As looking at them it looks like a small wire going into the readers. Do you have any problems with cuttings or cutting fluid on the wires? The one on the compound slide I think I can see how it works, but the one on the cross slide I'm at a bit of a lose for, as it appears that the mounting for the "fixed" end of the wire is fixed to the same part as the readers. Or are the readers fixed to the moving part of the cross slide and then the fixed part for for the cross slides wire fixed to the cross slide carriage ( the part that moves L to R along the lathe bed)? The lathe also looks very nice as well, a better photo of it please, if you can. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Isambarduk Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 "... am I alone with this affliction?" Sadly not! But, then again, I wouldn't be without them so I'm not looking for a cure :-) Some of my smaller machine tools and gismos that I use for 7mm are described in captioned pictures here: www.davidlosmith.co.uk/workshop-machine-tools.htm David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Hello David, I'm not one of the H&S police In fact I don't like them, but don't you think that you should have some sort of covers on them belts to the left. Then when you use the large roller above the motor to drive the milling head on the cross slide. I know it's your lathe but it just looks like it could do with bringing up to date a bit a few covers over some of the belts. The one just on top of the motor the most. If you no hair OK you won't get it caught in the M/C, but what if your showing young people how to use a M/C. Good practise is good practise. I don''t like the H&S police but some times we have to think about it. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
3 link Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Hello David, I know it's your lathe but it just looks like it could do with bringing up to date a bit a few covers over some of the belts. The one just on top of the motor the most. If you no hair OK you won't get it caught in the M/C, OzzyO. Because when Ozzyo fires his M/C up he has to wear a hair net, beard net and a padded waist coat to protect his beer vault . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Harvey Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 And he has to stand on a box to see across and down on his M/C Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobbyhorse Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share Posted July 31, 2014 Ozzyo, thats a nice looking bit of kit. Hope this pic gives you the idea of how the DRO link arm works, have to be a bit careful as the arm can come into contact with the plate holding the DRO's. With these compound slides the unit can be removed from the lathe and the arm is fixed to the part that clamps to the bed with the mounting plate for the DRO's fixed to the moving part of the cross slide. The wires are sprung loaded into the body of the unit, you can just see a small spring next to the blue shrouding which protects the workings inside the unit should you let go of the wire. I've only done it once and the wire tends to come off of the drum inside the unit. I've not had any problems with swarf getting into the return wheels or the units as I use a small air gun to clear the area, and don't use any cutting fluid with this lathe which is a Schaublin 70. David, I'm glad that I'm not alone. Thanks for the link to your site, interesting. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Isambarduk Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 "it could do with bringing up to date a bit a few covers over some of the belts""don't you think that you should have some sort of covers on them belts to the left" Well no. Other than the cover to the electrical connections, which is clearly modern and was made to avoid a repeat of the experience with the errant swarf, I have not made any additions because this was an exercise in restoration of a treasured machine. When my father built this lathe, whilst he was at school and later as a mechanical engineering apprentice, the machinery that he saw all around him was driven from overhead line shafting without any guards to the belts so he just built his lathe from what he knew and worked with. I would no more think of adding guards to this lathe than I would think of fully lagging a restored steam locomotive and then closing in all the valve gear. I grew up with an Myford ML4 in my father's workshop and it had a counter-shaft on the wall and a motor on the bench behind the lathe. None of the belts had guards and it taught you to be very careful and to have great respect for the moving machinery. "If you no hair OK you won't get it caught in the M/C, but what if your showing young people how to use a M/C." I have no hair that would reach the belts but I don not actually use this lathe; there is no room on my machine bench and it is far simpler just to work with my Unimat lathe and my Unimat milling machine, which is what I would use if I were showing young people how to use machine tools. My apologies for continuing this 'off topic' and hijacking this modelling thread but here is a photograph (taken from www.davidlosmith.co.uk/WatchMakersLathe.htm where I describe the restoration in captioned pictures) of the accessories that my father also made: David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobbyhorse Posted August 1, 2014 Author Share Posted August 1, 2014 David please carry on with these interesting photos, I always get ideas for new bits to make from these. As my hair is easy to control these days unguarded belts are not to much of a problem. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Isambarduk Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Fair enough, Simon; it's your thread so I am more than happy to contribute with these 'how I did it' and other diversions into the fringes of our hobby. David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobbyhorse Posted August 5, 2014 Author Share Posted August 5, 2014 The next stage was on the drawing board to produce the crank 6 times model size onwhich all the centres are set out and sizes checked, this enables a plastic pattern to be made from the drawing. I use drawing film which is more robust than tracing paper as the drawing is overlaid on some plastic card, and the shape is transferred onto the sheet below. Not a very good photo but it gives the idea. Once all the dimensions are re-checked the pattern is cut out and mounted onto its backing. The pattern for the cranks. The round disc is a jig used for setting the off set on the eccentric when machining them in the lathe. Starting with some flat steel plate which was machined down to a few thou over size, this was then ground down to .085 thou, this is the size that the ready made cranks are. Plenty of material was produced so that spares could be cut, just in case of problems. The webs are then cut out on the profile miller, some have two holes which are the centres for the axles those with an additional hole are for the eccentric alignment pin. Next the webs are drilled and reamed 3/16th on the miller using a simple jig that maintains the centres( sorry didn’t photograph the jig) Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobbyhorse Posted August 6, 2014 Author Share Posted August 6, 2014 All the bits for the cranks made and cleaned up. The machining for the eccentrics was straight forward other that ensuring that the fit to the web allowed clearance for the loctite to work. The first stage in assembling the crank is to fix the eccentric to its web, the protruding tube has an OD of 3/16 which slides into the web which is reamed 3/16 with a 1mm rod setting the location of the eccentric on the web. The fit between the two parts must not be tight as the lactite needs to penetrate fully into the joint. These are the put aside over night to cure. This shows the first one cleaned up after the loctite has set. The parts before being set. Next the two webs can be assembled, to give the correct spacing one of the spare webs is used. The stub axle is 3/16th and a 5/32nd rod used to align the parts. The basic crank parts are now complete, waiting for final fixing of the two sets of webs to be fixed to the wheels. The tube that is protruding out of the web will take the stub axle from the wheel, and a 5/32nd bar will fix the two webs together. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Harvey Posted August 6, 2014 Share Posted August 6, 2014 Simon Are you really only going to use Loctite to hold it all together on the axles, no cross drilling and fixing with pins? A fine piece of engineering work there very nice indeed. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobbyhorse Posted August 7, 2014 Author Share Posted August 7, 2014 Pete After doing some research about the loctite (603) used on the crank, I'm a bit concerned about oil degrading the joint. In the past I've used this grade on some larger wheels in 5 inch and 7 1/4 inch which have not been a problem, but as these wheels have a larger contact area for the bond the chance of oil degrading the joint is small. As I've not yet machined the wheels, I've got a bit of time to decide plus I've put my back out which is slowing progress. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 I hope your back gets better soon, I have had minor problems with mine and I know how awkward it can be. I am enjoying your approach to model making and I am getting some ideas on how to improve mine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobbyhorse Posted August 7, 2014 Author Share Posted August 7, 2014 Thanks Peter, the one good thing about resting its giving lots of time to catch up on the pile of unread mags. This could be a long thread and I'm glad your enjoying it. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 If your worried about the Loctite try 290 it's a penetrating grade and has one of the strongest bonds in the range. For it to work best a gap of 0.001" is about best. I think that I'd still cross drill all of the webs and pin them, I've used taper pins to do this but the cost of the tapered reamer is a bit on the steep side, you can get the tapered pins from Items Mail Order. Some nice looking machine work going on there. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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