Pebbles Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Firstly I will not commit until the running qualities of the Marsh Atlantic are known and what compromises have had to be made. On this point I believe the DJH C1 (which I understand was mastered by Alistair Rolfe), is to a somewhat larger scale than 4mm and significant compromises had to be made. Secondly I am concerned at paying approaching twice the current discount price of the Marsh for the Ivatt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Im almost despondent by the number of folk talking prices. Increased price are never good but it really is "yesterdays chip paper"...... You get all the frothing and wishlisting about seeing a newly tooled high fi model then when the manufacturer listens and produces the goods they get to read threads like this half full of disgruntled modellers because the price is high. I can just see some of decision makers at Bachmann thinking "FFS". Damned if we do damned if we dont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted July 31, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 31, 2014 (edited) Firstly I will not commit until the running qualities of the Marsh Atlantic are known and what compromises have had to be made. On this point I believe the DJH C1 (which I understand was mastered by Alistair Rolfe), is to a somewhat larger scale than 4mm and significant compromises had to be made. Secondly I am concerned at paying approaching twice the current discount price of the Marsh for the Ivatt. I think it fair to assume that, however the C1 runs, so will the H2 because they will use a close to identical mechanism. As for the price, Hatton's pre-order offer at £89 is clearly stated to be an estimate, qualified by their "we will give you the option to cancel if it increases" line at the end. The item has been on their website since long before Bachmann announced their price increases and has not been altered since. Bachmann have openly stated that the H2 is not yet even at the drawing stage so I don't expect to see the model for about two years. I'll be very surprised if anyone ends up selling them for less than £150 when they finally appear. IMHO, if anyone out there is offering a guaranteed pre-order price around £90, and they honour it, they will end up making a thumping loss. John Edited July 31, 2014 by Dunsignalling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Or maybe "for pitys sake" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted July 31, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 31, 2014 There is plenty of "grey power" in nostalgic modelling. These are often people - like me - with a reliable pension income and no mortgage. Buying a model of something that was unthinkable a few years back, and at a price that is actually not that much more than some younger people get through on a Saturday night out, will not deter them. I don't see the NRM having the slightest problem shifting these. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr.king Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 (edited) I agree that the straight slope on the rear of the splasher and front of firebox is wrong, and I don't see why it need be so at all. I hope the image of the model used above to illustrate the problem is reversed, otherwise the drain cock is on the wrong side of the firebox too. [Admin Edit: paragraph removed in line with thread moderation elsewhere] I have copied the details of this post so that it can re-appear elsewhere if necessary. Edited July 31, 2014 by Mod4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2750 Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 (edited) [Admin edit: paragraph and quote removed in line with thread moderation elsewhere] I now have an excellent photo of 4424 to work from, interestingly it's had a rough shunt by looking at it's bufferbeam...I wont be depicting that! Now then Graeme.....how long until you produce the C1 with walschaerts valve gear! Edited July 31, 2014 by Mod4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Firstly I will not commit until the running qualities of the Marsh Atlantic are known and what compromises have had to be made. On this point I believe the DJH C1 (which I understand was mastered by Alistair Rolfe), is to a somewhat larger scale than 4mm and significant compromises had to be made .. I hope the main compromise in the mechanism will be making the wheel diameter represent maximum tyre wear. That buys just enough clearance for OO fine scale flanges to clear at scale axle centres. As for running qualities, their models consitently work, and I suspect this one will too! It's only a motor and a gear train. It probably won't be heavy enough for my liking, so I'll be taking out any detachable ballast and substitiuting the lead that a manufacterer is barred from using by law. This will be a whole heap easier than trying to build one into equally good running capability. Been there and got that T-shirt, my least successful whitemetal kit build, long ago got rid of. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 (edited) I hope the image of the model used above to illustrate the problem is reversed, otherwise the drain cock is on the wrong side of the firebox too. Yes, I should have mentioned I flipped part of Mike's pic for the purposes of illustration only, and I have added a note to my #568 accordingly.. Edited July 31, 2014 by Miss Prism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mod4 Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Due to repeated reporting of some earlier posts and further to my previous post requesting that the thread remains specifically on topic about the model, some posts and paragraphs have now been removed to prevent escalation of what can be considered inflammatory arguments. Anyone got any spare diodes... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Yes, clearing the step is awkward, but in my opinion, there is little excuse for blatant lateral cranking of conn rods in OO. I think this could have been cleverer. (The full version of this image is or was I understand on Locomotion's Facebook page.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2750 Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I would be interested if someone at Locomotion would be able to confirm or not, due to the different tender types, and that the NRM have the rights to a C1. May there be other C1s produced in the future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Firstly I will not commit until the running qualities of the Marsh Atlantic are known and what compromises have had to be made. Basiclly, my policy is that if the model runs like a walking chimpanzee (like the last Bachmann steam loco I recieved due to a centre driver being off centre) it will go back for replacement/refund. Running qualities of Bachmann have an excellent reputation as long as you do not get a faulty one like I did. We will see how good it really is by early 2015. There are appararently over 300 parts in the model. For comparison a 1980s Hornby class 47 has around 60 parts, a 1990s Hornby A3 or a more recent Railroad pacific has around 170 parts, a modern day rebuilt super detailed West Country has around 400. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Yes, clearing the step is awkward, but in my opinion, there is little excuse for blatant lateral cranking of conn rods in OO. I think this could have been cleverer. (The full version of this image is or was I understand on Locomotion's Facebook page.) gnr-atlantic-comparison-2.jpg The GNR Atlantics are particularly narrow and that step is a thick casting. We don't know how driving wheel sideplay has been arranged as yet but knowing the model will have been designed to negotiate trainset curves, I for one am not surprised the connecting rod is joggled............ It simply has to clear the leading coupling rod pin. Had the loco been designed for 3ft minimum radius, it would be a different matter, but I fear we are getting bogged down with details that go hand in hand with proprietary model locomotives. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 31, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 31, 2014 As the NRM Locomotion models guy is posting regularly on this thread, I did think that my question might be read by him, and other knowledgeable RMwebbers. It is commercial information so I am told and is not up for discussion - Locomotion would not be able to answer it anyway as their decisions depend on all sorts of things (including, obviously, sales). Firstly I will not commit until the running qualities of the Marsh Atlantic are known and what compromises have had to be made. On this point I believe the DJH C1 (which I understand was mastered by Alistair Rolfe), is to a somewhat larger scale than 4mm and significant compromises had to be made. Secondly I am concerned at paying approaching twice the current discount price of the Marsh for the Ivatt. What discount price? - if you mean the 'come on' price advertised by Hattons (which they make clear they cannot necessarily honour) that is no comparison whatsoever. Bachmann don't even yet know what the trade price of the H2 will be, development is of it is at an early stage (information well in the public domain) so not even production costs will have been identified as yet. So whatever anyone might advertise now it is merely a sort of wishlisting (or should that be whistling in the wind?) on their behalf. And in any case we don't even know how the full range of costs will change in China over the coming year or so. In reality there is no comparison there at all. I would be interested if someone at Locomotion would be able to confirm or not, due to the different tender types, and that the NRM have the rights to a C1. May there be other C1s produced in the future? It is my understanding that it is very definitely an NRM/Locomotion exclusive model and it is also my understanding that means that versions will not be offered under the Bachmann label. The way the loco components are assembled and the inclusion of a variety of tenders might allow Locomotion a possible future option of creating further variety but such decisions will, I am sure, be heavily influenced by sales at this stage and maybe even by the mix of the three versions currently available for pre-order. I should make it clear that what I have just said in the immediately preceding sentence is very much a personal view and is not any sort of reflection of Locomotion's policy other than the fact that any decisions they might make for the future are obviously going to be influenced by sales and the return they generate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 31, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 31, 2014 The GNR Atlantics are particularly narrow and that step is a thick casting. We don't know how driving wheel sideplay has been arranged as yet but knowing the model will have been designed to negotiate trainset curves, I for one am not surprised the connecting rod is joggled............ It simply has to clear the leading coupling rod pin. Had the loco been designed for 3ft minimum radius, it would be a different matter, but I fear we are getting bogged down with details that go hand in hand with proprietary model locomotives. The clearances in there on the real thing are very tight, the pics below could only be made by holding the (compact) camera behind the step and pressing the button with probably far more hope than anticipation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted July 31, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 31, 2014 Sorry about the poor quality of this one but it is crop from a small part of the original taken with the compact camera and clearly (I hope) shows the lack of space behind the footstep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulleidnutter Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 http://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/locos/atlantic/latest.html Suggest people look at the above link. 5/16" is the gap of a LBSCR H2. Would be very surprised if the GNR C1 is any different. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Yes, clearing the step is awkward, but in my opinion, there is little excuse for blatant lateral cranking of conn rods in OO. I think this could have been cleverer... Probably so, but it gives us something to do to improve it from 'as received' condition. I am anticipating lots of 'fettling' on this one to get it just right. It will be in pieces an hour after arrival provided test running proves there is no basic problem with it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 I am more familiar with the smaller Henry Oakley, having been invited to look her over before entering service on the K&WVR in the late 1970's. But the chassis are similar. Seeing as Bachmann produced a MR Compound that did not hunt all over the show, I have every confidence in the running of their Atlantic. The problem for me is deciding which variant to opt for! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest spet0114 Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 The problem for me is deciding which variant to opt for! Simple - go for all three! (It's for a good cause, anyway....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2750 Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 (edited) I've just ordered a second LNER Apple Green one. I would like to do 4447, and figured at the moment, even if one of my two has the wrong tender. I can only use two for Thirsk, so might as well do both and the tender issue will have to be ignored for the moment. As you can see, 4447 will require some modifications. 4447 was apparently used on the No 1 Express Meat and Fish in the 1930s. Edited July 31, 2014 by 2750 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Simple - go for all three! (It's for a good cause, anyway.... ) Nice thought, but I only have multiples of locos that were garaged or seen on the line I am modelling. Plus I am modelling 1953 and the Atlantics had gone, hence the dilemma. There would be no such dilemma if the NRM were to produce a LNWR 'Prince of Wales', as I'm stupid! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted July 31, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 31, 2014 I've just ordered a second LNER Apple Green one. I would like to do 4447, and figured at the moment, even if one of my two has the wrong tender. I can only use two for Thirsk, so might as well do both and the tender issue will have to be ignored for the moment. As you can see, 4447 will require some modifications. IMG_6552.jpg With that cab, you might be better off waiting for the Brighton version and repainting it (only joking-there were lots of other differences!)! Some of the 'variants' would make very attractive models though, such as the 'outside Walschaerts' 3279, or 4419 with side window cab and booster engine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Yes, clearing the step is awkward, but in my opinion, there is little excuse for blatant lateral cranking of conn rods in OO. I think this could have been cleverer. (The full version of this image is or was I understand on Locomotion's Facebook page.) gnr-atlantic-comparison-2.jpg I'll need to see it in the flesh but it's not, strictly speaking, a deal breaker for me...yet. It looks odd there to be sure. I wonder if it will be noticable whilst running though. There are compromises, and there are compromises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now