Currently Drinking...

[steve1]

Looking at that photo you'd had enough that night...

Paul,

 

I think that may have been the third...

 

steve

[steve1]

Now those of you with long memories will, no doubt, have dreadful memories of tinned beer. The ghastly Long Life, Party 7, etc of old and even supermarket own brand grot, all of which have, unsurprisingly, left you wary of beer in tins.

 

I too thought the same until I found this:

 

 

It hardly touched the sides! Very tasty and no nasty tinny aftertaste either.

 

 

I like the real draught stuff too but this is definitely worth investigating.

 

steve

[AndrewC]

Steve, the newest canning processes are a far cry from what used to happen. There are a lot of beers out there now that are better in cans than in bottles or on draught. This is down to oxygen ingress from a bad bottle capping and light strike from breweries that use clear or green glass. Neither happen in a can. If you are going for the heavily hopped beers that have a short shelf life, then cans are the way to go. After all they are just nano-casks in reality.

 

(awaits the freak out from the twiggy beer luddites)

[JZ]

This weekend it's crappy, cheap French lager and superb Normandy Cider. I may be at home, but I have to get the flavour of the Le Mans 24 Hours.

[bike2steam]

When in France I always seek out the nearest stockist of 'La Goudale', it's nowhere near perfect, but far better than all that crap lager.

[Mark Dickerson]

(awaits the freak out from the twiggy beer luddites)

I think my favourite thing about the whole Craft versus Real Ale Diehard spat is that it often practically boils down to a choice of a load of same-y bitters (or G*lden Ales) versus a choice of same-y American IPAs depending on which pub I've just walked into. There might be an Imperial Stout for silly money (even outside Craft Land - looks at you Fuller's), but despite there being loads more choice I'd still get the Dark mild? Nobody drinks it reponse all too often. Cans don't enter into it.

[Joseph_Pestell]

This weekend it's crappy, cheap French lager and superb Normandy Cider. I may be at home, but I have to get the flavour of the Le Mans 24 Hours.

 

Most of the French hypermarkets stock some of the good French beers these days. The various Jenlain from Duyck are probably the most common but note that they are 7.5 or 8 degrees so a 75cl bottle is quite a lot for one.

 

Mind, back in my student days, we managed a lot more than that. Some of the student visitors from the UK used to struggle a bit with it!

[Penlan]

...... but despite there being loads more choice I'd still get the Dark mild? ..

OK, yes I've been selective, BUT a dark mild, like 'Brains Dark', wonderful, though unfortunately seemingly no longer available via the pump.

I still like Porter's too, though they can be very filling, like say 'Kirkstone Porter', 3 pints and I'm full - even though it's only 3.6%.

[bike2steam]

I started my serious drinking days with Highgate Mild, I'd like to try some again ( if it's still around ?)for old times sake, but feel my 'palate' has changed in the intervening 45+ years. And that's the deciding factor with the choice of drinks, not fashion or fad - but how the individual palate reacts to the taste.

[Mark Dickerson]

It should be, but there's a whole lot of money being wasted on advertising if that's all it is (although, yes, I believe palates change). And I suppose a lot of more subtle influences like more foreign holidays that have meant we're getting much greater access to spicier flavours than a few decades back.

 

Highgate Dark Mild would appear to be back, which is good news.

 

http://siba.co.uk/2015/01/award-winning-historic-highgate-dark-mild-relaunched-a-true-taste-of-history/

[petethemole]

In the news today

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-33175395

 

Pete

[Siberian Snooper]

In the news today

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-33175395

 

Pete

It ain't what it was anyway since the Coors take over.

[steve1]

Their Wolf Rock is much better anyway.

 

steve

[APOLLO]

If it's brewed in Burton on Trent, it's (usually) a decent beer / ale.

 

I read in a book about Bolton's railways, a Bolton brewery (Magee Marshall) had a couple of square tank wagons delivered weekly from Burton containing water pumped from a well there. It was used to brew a certain Magee's pale ale, and thus was able to keep the association with Burton. One day, during shunting between Burton and Bolton one tank had a valve opened and was run dry. It was filled by someone, somewhere (unknown) with locomotive water from a water column. The result was not only a ruined brew, but they "lost the yeast germ" and it took quite a time to restore the original before production could restart.

 

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=SqsNs9k7vIMC&pg=PA16&lpg=PA16&dq=magees+ale+railway+water+tanks+from+burton&source=bl&ots=qXTcEHC97Y&sig=p7LAxOlV28nnMWvOn66Tl46EQ5M&hl=en&sa=X&ei=wwKDVcfXCu-P7Abjy4CQCA&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=magees%20ale%20railway%20water%20tanks%20from%20burton&f=false

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magee_Marshall_%26_Co

 

I happen to like Coors light (lager) - just a refreshing drink on a hot summers day when the Barbie is alight !!!!

 

Brit15

Edited June 18, 2015 by APOLLO

[Joseph_Pestell]

Recently met someone who has opened a "micropub" in Southbourne (The Wight Bear).

 

The "micropub" is a phenomenon that had passed me by and I am not sure that I get the idea at all. Here we are with loads of pubs closing down and available to buy for far less than the price of an ordinary residential house. Why would one pay shop rents and business rates to open somewhere else?

[AndrewC]

Recently met someone who has opened a "micropub" in Southbourne (The Wight Bear).

 

The "micropub" is a phenomenon that had passed me by and I am not sure that I get the idea at all. Here we are with loads of pubs closing down and available to buy for far less than the price of an ordinary residential house. Why would one pay shop rents and business rates to open somewhere else?

Sorry Joseph, that simply isn't the truth. Yes there are loads of pubs closing. Each one has its own reason. However to say "far less than the price of an ordinary residential house" is total fantasy when you look at the real price of buying one. If a building is being offered for lower than what a similar sized residence is selling for, that should set off alarm bells. We looked at one a few years ago. Cheap as chips. Would have cost almost as much again to refit, rewire, plumbing, roof, etc, etc etc..........You get what you pay for.

 

Some pubs close because they simply aren't viable. This can be due to changes in the demographic of the area, maintenance costs, or simply crap landlord. Pubcos are flogging off a large amount of their real estate in order to cover their poor financial management. Many of those are being sold way over the odds to developers if they can get planning permission. One recent example is the Black Swan in Charlton. Asset of community value listing but the group that wanted it couldn't raise the £900k in time. Now owned by a developer. Gone forever. The cost of buying into a traditional pub tenancy these days is at least £25 to £30k. Opening a micro in a shop front costs less than half of that, without a tied tenancy, with far cheaper ground rent, and more security with a traditional commercial lease instead of a pubco tenancy. Another thing is many pubs offered by pubcos are ones that duplicate other more successful operations nearby. That means companies like Punch and Enterprise will put caveats on the sale so they can't be used as pubs in competition to their remaining properties.

 

Pubs these days to survive need to attract families and a constant clientele. They do this by offering food, fruit machines, music, sports on tv, etc. A micro is the antithesis of that. Basically they hark back to the old days when a pub was more of a communal sitting room. Quiet, not shi shi fru fru cocktails, no food, no phones, no tv. Just a pint, pickled egg and neighbourly conversation.

 

2 local examples for you.

 

1: Forester's Arms. Traditional pub. Tenancy rent is well above £10k a month and they are tied to the pubco's beer and spirits list. They pay around £30 a barrel more for beer than the would if they could buy it directly from the brewer.

 

2: Door Hinge. A micro pub. Rent for a similar space in Welling is around £3k a month. He can bring in what ever he wants. In just over 2 years he's had over 400 different beers on at one time or another. His prices are about 80p a pint cheaper as well.

 

So, the micro is far less expensive to set up and run. It doesn't have the toxicity that has become endemic in the industry. Free of tie. Economical.

[45156]

Interesting and thought provoking post, Andrew.

 

There is a pub here in Lancaster which used to be, quite simply, one of the best town pubs in the UK according to the Guardian (the national version, not our local rag here in Lancaster and Morecambe).  A new and enthusiastic landlord took it on, got rid of the less salubrious customers for which it was then notorious, put on good music almost every night, and made a howling success of the place, so much so that it was often difficult to get in the place (and to see from one end of the bar to the other due to the fug of fag smoke) - and the cask beer was always well kept and never a bad pint came out of the pumps  Genial staff, interesting customers, and good basic food and there you had it.

 

.Pub was owned by a pubco, so frequent rent "revisions" increases, and also a tie on the brands of beer - then the final straw came when the rent was increased again, based on the pub's takings to the extent that the landlord was not going to be able to make a living profit as the pub was already always full to capacity, and no more bums could go on seats, so the opportunity to expand the business was virtually nil. 

 

So the brilliant landlord gave up his tenancy, and went back to working in his previous profession, and the place changed hands several times, but has never since then been the same pub, as nobody was able to recreate the feel and vibrancy of the place, and because many of the bands in the evening abandoned the place almost straight away. 

 

A prize example of killing the goose etc...

 

Lancastrians will, of course know that I'm talking about the once brilliant Olde John O' Gaunt. 

[wollastonblue]

In Kidderminster, a few of the Marstons pubs have closed and are either being converted into "local" shops or flats. My now local pub is a micropub that doesn't sell lager or alcopops, and is based in a shop setting under a recent development, it is convenient for Footplate and the SVR. 

 

The gaffer has 6 Real Ales on with most coming from local breweries, and he is supporting new breweries like Pig Iron Brewery in Brierley Hill, Fownes in Dudley, and Byatts in Coventry, as well as the established breweries like Wye Valley, Hobsons, and Bewdley breweries.

[Penlan]

....... Lancastrians will, of course know that I'm talking about the once brilliant Olde John O' Gaunt. 

You don't have to be a Lancastrian to remember the pub, my eldest lad's band played there a few times, one of the best gigs going he reckoned.  And I liked the beer.....

[APOLLO]

4 small pubs have opened in the Wigan area this year. One of them is called "Wigan Central" - but ain't anywhere near where Wigan Central station was - in fact it's in the arches underneath Wigan North Western station. The entrance is under Wallgate WCML railway bridge and turn left into Queen Street.

 

.http://www.wigancentral.bar/

 

Some nice local brews here and I wish them luck.

 

Unfortunately many other local pubs have closed in recent years, many reasons. What is more worrying for us Wiganers are the local (non-chain) Pie shops that have gone, Mayburys, Heatons, McCandlishes, Pooles (the original) etc,and the superb one in Broxton Ave Orrell run by an old couple who made butter pies to die for (or from if you ate two, such was their heft !!!).

 

Who made the best pies in Wigan ? cause of many an argument - http://www.wiganworld.co.uk/communicate/mb_message.php?opt=f4&opt2=&msd=417609&offset=40&subject=Who%20made%20the%20best%20pies%20in%20wigan....?

 

Brit15

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

Aft'noon all,

 

Having been invited to spend a few days with friends in Ludlow next week it seemed rude not to take a few supplies along, so combining a trip to the Wincle brewery with an afternoon constitutional covered both objectives. I hoped that the 'Summer Lass' might be ready but alas not until next week...another tray of Old Oak didn't seem too much hardship....

 

An element of border raiding....crossing the county boundary back into Staffordshire with the booty.

 

A better advert for Duck tape than the Old Oak

 

Staffs Moorlands scenery along the route

 

 

 

 

 

Enjoy what you do

 

Dave

[Joseph_Pestell]

So how many square metres does he get for £3000 a month? I can see that the micropub is cheap to set up by comparison with the traditional lease but the overheads after that look high relative to the trade that can be done in a small premises.

 

I fully agree with you about the complete nonsense that is the Pubco lease. We have a good example of that here (an Enterprise house). Fortunately, there are still some brewers with sensible tenancies that give someone the chance to build up a good business (which of course benefits the brewery as well).

 

You are in more difficulties in the built-up areas where it is so much easier for developers to get planning consent for redevelopment of a pub. And at £900,000, few community groups are going to be able to get the figures to stack up.

 

Here, a few years ago, a cracking pub (ex-Punch) went for only £200k. Yes, it required work but still a bargain. It is, historically, two four-bedroom houses and was worth a lot more than the £200k if conversion to resi had been allowed.

 

 

2 local examples for you.

 

1: Forester's Arms. Traditional pub. Tenancy rent is well above £10k a month and they are tied to the pubco's beer and spirits list. They pay around £30 a barrel more for beer than the would if they could buy it directly from the brewer.

 

2: Door Hinge. A micro pub. Rent for a similar space in Welling is around £3k a month. He can bring in what ever he wants. In just over 2 years he's had over 400 different beers on at one time or another. His prices are about 80p a pint cheaper as well.

 

So, the micro is far less expensive to set up and run. It doesn't have the toxicity that has become endemic in the industry. Free of tie. Economical.

[45156]

Tonight I'm having one of these and it's quite yummy.

 

[45156]

You don't have to be a Lancastrian to remember the pub, my eldest lad's band played there a few times, one of the best gigs going he reckoned.  And I liked the beer.....

Good gigs and good beer - Steve's stock in trade - most of the bands from the JOG moved on to the Robert Gillow.  A local rumour was that the contacts book "disappeared"in that direction when the JOG went West....

[Penlan]

... What is more worrying for us Wiganers are the local (non-chain) Pie shops that have gone, Mayburys, Heatons, McCandlishes, Pooles (the original) etc,and the superb one in Broxton Ave Orrell run by an old couple who made butter pies to die for (or from if you ate two, such was their heft !!!).

That was one of the main reason's I attended the Wigan Show in the 80's and early 90's, Pies...  On a winters day/eve... smashing.