Brunel's Great Western Railway structures uncovered

[westerhamstation]

This is on theBBC website

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-29317233

[The Stationmaster]

Makes you wonder what they expected?  If you build Crossrail slap bang through the middle of the Westbourne Park engine shed site with some deep digging, as has been happening recently, I would have thought it rather obvious that some old foundations would come to light.

 

In the meanwhile they'll probably be cheerfully demolishing the few overbridges which remain from Brunel's time.

[pointstaken]

Typical sloppy BBC reporting. Can someone enlighten us as to what a "train turntable" is ?

 

Dennis

[The Stationmaster]

Typical sloppy BBC reporting. Can someone enlighten us as to what a "train turntable" is ?

 

Dennis

An engine is a 'train' in BBC wonderland (except, of course, where BenA is concerned) but then they often pander to the lowest common denominator when it comes to use of English.

[petethemole]

The entire project would have been subjected to an archaeological desk-based assessment prior to any groundworks starting. This would identify every location on the route that would be expected to include a "heritage asset" (current terminology). Thus field evaluations, full excavations and surveys can be programmed to happen in advance of deep groundworks and construction. So it's hardly a surprise these sites exist although the extent of survival following earlier demolitions and redevelopments will be unknown until they are exposed. The archaeological work records all the detail of construction etc and recovers artefacts.  That's a project I would like to have been involved with.

 

Pete (retired archaeologist)

[Rugd1022]

Fascinating - let's hope it's all recorded properly before the new works begins. My Great Grandfather on my Mum's side of the family started his footplate career at Westbourne Park, and we think two of his brothers also worked there, before moving to Old Oak in 1906.

[tomparryharry]

I hope they don't dig too deep. 

 

They'll find all those hidden Granges, 38xx's & Panniers.....

 

Now, where's my coat.........?

[The Great Bear]

Remember this from my involvement in the bus garage extension going on this site. Can't say my memories of that project particularly happy. Pity the contractor trying to build it, work around the tunnelling works and coordinate with moving the Tarmac concrete batching plant.

[brianusa]

One might have been found down at or near the (cringe) "Train Station".

While I can sympathise with these comments, they are increasingly prevalent and in everyday usage, except possibly by those of a certain age who are fond of railways.  Time to let it go, as they say nowadays!

 

Brian.

[Peter Kazmierczak]

I'm sure there are many examples of Brunel's broad gauge that will be swept away by electrification works and bridge reconstruction.

 

Here is what looks like a section of broad gauge rail supporting a fence post by the overbridge at Steventon.

[Graham Walters]

For those that are interested, Brunel's last broad gauge Engine shed is a Grade 1 listed building, and is still standing on the site where Ross on Wye Railway Station once stood.  It bears the mark of the transformation from broad to standard, they just bricked up the doors to make them narrower !

 

You can clearly see the wider arch in this pic, and the narrower alteration.

 

 

This is how it looks today after the site was converted into an Industrial Estate.  The old good shed still survives, that too is listed, but not as a broad gauge building.

 

[Pacific231G]

Makes you wonder what they expected?  If you build Crossrail slap bang through the middle of the Westbourne Park engine shed site with some deep digging, as has been happening recently, I would have thought it rather obvious that some old foundations would come to light.

 

Errr. Well they clearly epxcected to find construction related to the GWR which is why the archaeologists are working there. From the interview it seems that the inspection pit will be recorded then back-filled so it will still be there underneath the new works - presumably just as it was under previous rebuildings.. I doubt if Brunel cared a fig for whatever history was destroyed by his work. 

[The Stationmaster]

The pits all look to be standard gauge to me which would make sense as Westbourne Park spent the final 14 years of its existence as a solely narrow gauge (in GWR terminology) shed so presumably underwent considerable alteration at track level at that time.  The construction of the pits in fact looks absolutely typical GWR with brick floor and partially up the sidewalls then topped with concrete - similar construction remained right through the Churchward era and beyond as can be seen elsewhere.

 

I wonder how much is going to be cutaway - if any - for the gradient down into the tunnels which must start somewhere in the vicinity of the main eastern ned shed I would think?

[Mikkel]

There's a bit more here, including some intereting shots at the bottom of the turntable: http://www.crossrail.co.uk/news/articles/crossrail-uncovers-brunels-railway-heritage

 

Anyone looking for an interesting modelling project? Use the plans from the archeaologists, get Crossrail to sponsor it, buy up Martin Finney's remaining stock and have the whole thing built and exhibited in the London Transport Museum. All it needs is someone with vision, courage and a touch of madness to organise it (Andy are you listening?). My contribution will be to come and watch   

[The Great Bear]

The pits all look to be standard gauge to me which would make sense as Westbourne Park spent the final 14 years of its existence as a solely narrow gauge (in GWR terminology) shed so presumably underwent considerable alteration at track level at that time. The construction of the pits in fact looks absolutely typical GWR with brick floor and partially up the sidewalls then topped with concrete - similar construction remained right through the Churchward era and beyond as can be seen elsewhere.

 

I wonder how much is going to be cutaway - if any - for the gradient down into the tunnels which must start somewhere in the vicinity of the main eastern ned shed I would think?

The Royal Oak Portal, including the gradient down to the tunnels was built first, to launch the TBMs from, so west of that excavation is mostly to rail formation and redoing drainage etc. At Westbourne Park the elevated bus deck will have some chunky foundations and ground lowered a bit IIRC. There is a bloody big hole under it for a bottom discharge conveyor for the private siding for Tarmac that will sit north of the crossrail lines and turn back sidings.

[The Stationmaster]

The Royal Oak Portal, including the gradient down to the tunnels was built first, to launch the TBMs from, so west of that excavation is mostly to rail formation and redoing drainage etc. At Westbourne Park the elevated bus deck will have some chunky foundations and ground lowered a bit IIRC. There is a bloody big hole under it for a bottom discharge conveyor for the private siding for Tarmac that will sit north of the crossrail lines and turn back sidings.

I wondered if the approach gradient would be altered from the profile adopted during the tunnelling - and if any reprofiling would extend as far as the east end of the easternmost shed building as that stretched quite a long way east judging by contemporaneous photos.

 

It would be interesting to see plan of what is being excavated so that we can see which (of the three) engine sheds are being excavated and which of the (two) turntables has been uncovered.  The site was developed on a rather piecemeal basis over 20 odd years plus subsequent changes due to the removal of any surviving broad gauge track although at least one of the final three sheds on the site was built for narrow gauge engines.  Hopefully any archaeology on the site could be more useful in identifying some of the various changes which took place as buildings and track gauge were altered.

[RJS1977]

. I doubt if Brunel cared a fig for whatever history was destroyed by his work. 

 

There is a story that whilst surveying the route he received so much opposition in the Uffingon area that he calculated how many men he would need to change the White Horse to a railway locomotive overnight!