Oxfordrail - Adams Radial

[Mr chapman]

Anyone know when the southern version is hitting the shops?

[Nile]

No, but Hattons are now showing 30582 in BR black in stock. No proper photos yet.

[GreenGiraffe22]

I am so very tempted to order the one in Sunshine livery, I was really looking forward to having one, but then I found out they were only used on the Lyme Regis line  (I had no idea until recently that there were only 2 of them, excluding the EKR one, I was wondering why Hornby & Oxford Rail were using the same running numbers haha). 

But I suppose I could have it as "what if" on my South East layout, yes I am trying to remain relatively historically accurate, but aside from trains buffs like you and me, who's gonna know, aye?

[Butler Henderson]

No, but Hattons are now showing 30582 in BR black in stock. No proper photos yet.

Photos are up now

http://www.ehattons.com/173652/Oxford_Rail_OR76AR004_Class_415_Adams_Radial_4_4_2T_30582_in_BR_black_with_late_crest/StockDetail.aspx

[Limpley Stoker]

Photos are up now

http://www.ehattons.com/173652/Oxford_Rail_OR76AR004_Class_415_Adams_Radial_4_4_2T_30582_in_BR_black_with_late_crest/StockDetail.aspx

The flanges on the rear radial wheels look finer- I hope it is not just an illusion so it should run better on C+L track.

[JSpencer]

I am so very tempted to order the one in Sunshine livery, I was really looking forward to having one, but then I found out they were only used on the Lyme Regis line  (I had no idea until recently that there were only 2 of them, excluding the EKR one, I was wondering why Hornby & Oxford Rail were using the same running numbers haha). 

 

But I suppose I could have it as "what if" on my South East layout, yes I am trying to remain relatively historically accurate, but aside from trains buffs like you and me, who's gonna know, aye?

 

At a stretch, you could have the EKR one passing through the sunshine period briefly in 1946! She would have been in a right state by them and I do not know what sort of paintwork she would have had.

 

I'll be running the EKR one alongside SECR coloured items. Now if Oxford could do some Kent coalfield private owner wagons to go with it......

[GeoffBird]

At a stretch, you could have the EKR one passing through the sunshine period briefly in 1946! She would have been in a right state by them and I do not know what sort of paintwork she would have had.

 

I'll be running the EKR one alongside SECR coloured items. Now if Oxford could do some Kent coalfield private owner wagons to go with it......

If you are after Kent coalfield wagons (and not too fussy about accuracy) there are several listed on the Dapol Website under the "Special comissions" section.

[JSpencer]

If you are after Kent coalfield wagons (and not too fussy about accuracy) there are several listed on the Dapol Website under the "Special comissions" section.

Thanks, indeed I have a few of these. There is even an elusive EKR one, but I cannot find any contact name that sells them.

[Jenny Emily]

Belated review of the LSWR example I bought. Very pleased with this model; the Hornby one will have to be something really special to trump it, and even then the price differential will take the slack for any of the more minor errors, assuming that the Hornby one doesn't have errors of its own:

 

[Robin Brasher]

I enjoyed your video Jenny. It was very positive and it summed up this forum very well.

[Mr chapman]

I'm now a proud owner of the LSWR version. I'm very pleased with it and it runs well for the most part. There is one curve that it slips on in one direction. It looks like they have sprung the radial truck but used some rather stiff springs. However this is most likely MY TRACK to be fair. I might have a look at removing some material and clipping the springs ever so slightly. But I'm very happy with the model and have the southern green one on order

[Mr chapman]

I'm now a proud owner of the LSWR version. I'm very pleased with it and it runs well for the most part. There is one curve that it slips on in one direction. It looks like they have sprung the radial truck but used some rather stiff springs. However this is most likely MY TRACK to be fair. I might have a look at removing some material and clipping the springs ever so slightly. But I'm very happy with the model and have the southern green one on order

Yep that cracked it. I clipped off 3 coils from the spring and then stretched it back to the original length. Just enough to soften them and add a bit more vertical play. Runs like a Swiss watch now Nice one Oxford.

[billbedford]

Not logical... Shortening the spring makes it harder, not softer.

[Mr chapman]

Shortened then stretched to original length. They compress easier and smaller than before.

[57xx]

Yep that cracked it. I clipped off 3 coils from the spring and then stretched it back to the original length. Just enough to soften them and add a bit more vertical play. 

 

Just to point out an engineering error - shortening a spring actually makes them stiffer.

 

edit: Hah, too slow pressing the Reply button.

 

Stretching the spring back to the original doesn't soften them either. The pitch of the coils doesn't affect the spring rate. The only time this would help is if the coils were too close together and binding before sufficient movement had occurred.

Edited July 20, 2016 by 57xx

[Mr chapman]

Well it worked...

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Just to point out an engineering error - shortening a spring actually makes them stiffer.

 

edit: Hah, too slow pressing the Reply button.

 

Stretching the spring back to the original doesn't soften them either. The pitch of the coils doesn't affect the spring rate. The only time this would help is if the coils were too close together and binding before sufficient movement had occurred.

 All true, except for the conclusion. The usual problem is that the spring has been preloaded by the compression it is under in the mounting so that it is pretty stiff on the scale of force we are looking for (exerting 50 - 60gf in some cases I have seen), and thus lifting significant weight off the driven wheels on level track (and also in the worst cases is so near the binding point that the spring bonds as described very regularly on less than level track).

 

Chop a small piece off the spring - typically circa a quarter - stretch slightly so it is only lightly compressed and thus exerting about 10gf on the bogie with the loco on level track, and it has practically the full upward travel allowed in the mounting before the coils bind. Plenty enough force for good trackholding, and isn't lifting significant weight off the driven wheels

[Mr chapman]

I do like the irony though that the famous radial truck that gives them the nickname isn't actually radial.

[bertiedog]

When makers deliver locos with middle wheels smaller than the outer, pony trucks with flangeless wheels, do you really expect a radial axle? it could be arranged quite easily, but the springing to centre it would be critical.

If anybody wants to check haulage reduction effects from the rear wheels and bogies, simply remove them carefully and try the loco out as an 040. The increase haulage is quite surprising, but may not be needed, but it does need the axles eased to get both the Oxford and the Hornby to go over dips in the track.

 

Stephen.

[JSpencer]

This affects Hornby,s T9 as well. The play on the front bogie is minimal. A sharp change in gradient will cause the front pair of drivers to lift. These have traction tyres causing the model to loose most of haulage power.

 

There test tracks used during development caters for curves but not sharp gradients and the move towards being traction tyre less has lead to modern locos, while good equals on the level, less so on gradients compared with their modern heavy counterparts.

I am not saying we should switch back to traction tyres of course, but testing dept could test for gradients during developments.

 

The problem is the developing team must be creative to ensure good up and down play on the loose trailing and front wheels without affecting neither the balance of the model nor causing undue daylight (like the Triang Lord of the isles).

 

I - personally - accept that these kind of wheel arrangements (4-4-0, 0-4-4, 4-4-4, 2-4-2, 4-4-2) are going to be more of challenge to be weighted heavily for great haulage while retaining good weight balance than a 6, 8, 10 coupled designs or simpler 0-4-0 designs.

[2ManySpams]

This affects Hornby,s T9 as well. The play on the front bogie is minimal. A sharp change in gradient will cause the front pair of drivers to lift. These have traction tyres causing the model to loose most of haulage power.

 

There test tracks used during development caters for curves but not sharp gradients and the move towards being traction tyre less has lead to modern locos, while good equals on the level, less so on gradients compared with their modern heavy counterparts.

I am not saying we should switch back to traction tyres of course, but testing dept could test for gradients during developments.

 

The problem is the developing team must be creative to ensure good up and down play on the loose trailing and front wheels without affecting neither the balance of the model nor causing undue daylight (like the Triang Lord of the isles).

 

I - personally - accept that these kind of wheel arrangements (4-4-0, 0-4-4, 4-4-4, 2-4-2, 4-4-2) are going to be more of challenge to be weighted heavily for great haulage while retaining good weight balance than a 6, 8, 10 coupled designs or simpler 0-4-0 designs.

Plenty of vertical bogie travel on the Hornby T9 when the body is off. Problem is that the bogie pin is stopped travelling by the underside of the smokebox. Cut a hole to allow the pin to move and the problem is sorted. There's a whole thread on the subject with photos showing the modification and alternative solutions.

[GreenGiraffe22]

I think I'm going to sell my T9 on, it's pretty much unusable, either the bogie wheels bounce off, or the driving wheels constantly slip off the tracks. It is a shame because I quite like the loco but what is the point in having it if I can't use it? 

[Dunsignalling]

When makers deliver locos with middle wheels smaller than the outer, pony trucks with flangeless wheels, do you really expect a radial axle? it could be arranged quite easily, but the springing to centre it would be critical.

If anybody wants to check haulage reduction effects from the rear wheels and bogies, simply remove them carefully and try the loco out as an 040. The increase haulage is quite surprising, but may not be needed, but it does need the axles eased to get both the Oxford and the Hornby to go over dips in the track.

 

Stephen.

Most older r-t-r locos have copious slop in the chassis which enables them to cope with pretty horrible track.

 

However we might mock the discrepancies of OO, modern ones are a lot nearer to scale than those of the past. With much of the slop eliminated as a consequence, they are understandably less forgiving of badly laid or poorly maintained P-way.

 

Prototype track receives regular inspection and attention to keep it safe but how many modellers do anything more than cleaning theirs?

 

However good it might have been when a layout was built, things inevitably move over time, whether it's wear in the track itself or distortion/degradation of whatever material it's fixed to. Even subtle movement in the floorboards the layout stands on as the house/shed ages has an effect.The process is gradual and we tend to ignore it unless something gets really bad, rather in the way we don't notice people ageing when we see them regularly but do if we encounter someone we haven't met for a few years. 

 

If you test-run all the locos you think have running "issues", you will usually find that most of them become apparent in the same places.

 

Investing a few hours in checking everything that was level still is and sorting out the bumps, dips, dog-legs and dodgy rail joints that develop over time will make all your locos and stock run better. 

 

John

Edited July 28, 2016 by Dunsignalling

[JSpencer]

I think I'm going to sell my T9 on, it's pretty much unusable, either the bogie wheels bounce off, or the driving wheels constantly slip off the tracks. It is a shame because I quite like the loco but what is the point in having it if I can't use it? 

 

Sorry to go OTT here but  T9's were often seen boosting the strength of a west country on many trains. As the Hornby WC is light footed and slips like the prototype, double heading a train with a T9 and a WC would be prototypical.

 

Personally I avoid having sharp changes in gradient and ease any kinks in the trackwork to avoid these running issues. What suited a 1990's loco fine is often not apt for today's fine scale models.

[cromptonnut]

Has anyone tried an Oxford Radial on radius 1 track?

 

I'm working on a track plan for a Lyme Regis-ish layout using one (the Hornby coaches to go with it are awaiting collection on my next visit to the model shop and I've ordered the sound fitted Radial which isn't due for a couple of months) and as I don't need much of a fiddle yard having that couple of inches less using R1 instead of R2 would be quite helpful to me to fit in the space I don't really have.