RMweb Premium MJI Posted November 23, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 23, 2014 Warley Well. Quite often it was difficult to get to see some of the layouts, quite a few I just viewed from the end by fiddle yards. But I got a few impressions 1) Quite a few were hidden away. 2) A few had totally silly train formations 3) There were a few really good ones. Saw a nice Bristol influenced WR depot. An embankment with quite a few 20s. The most fun was the gauge 1 live steam. TBH that is the main issue at Warley, difficult to see the good layouts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamperman36 Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 I only visited Warley once and had such trouble seeing the layouts and getting to the trade stands that I wanted to, that I decided in future I will stick to visiting the local shows and if there is a certain layout I wish to see I'll either find an article in a magazine or hunt it at a local show. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 I only visited Warley once and had such trouble seeing the layouts and getting to the trade stands that I wanted to, that I decided in future I will stick to visiting the local shows and if there is a certain layout I wish to see I'll either find an article in a magazine or hunt it at a local show. You might consider going to "big" two-day shows on Sunday after lunch. In my experience, both as a visitor and an exhibitor, this is a much quieter time and you don't need such sharp elbows! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLD Posted November 23, 2014 Share Posted November 23, 2014 You might consider going to "big" two-day shows on Sunday after lunch. In my experience, both as a visitor and an exhibitor, this is a much quieter time and you don't need such sharp elbows! Trouble with that is, there is no hope of doing the show any justice... Even if you were there all day for both days (15 hours), at Warley you would have an average of only 3 minutes per stand, so in say four hours from 1 to 5pm, you have no hope of seeing even half the show... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted November 24, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 24, 2014 Trouble with that is, there is no hope of doing the show any justice... Even if you were there all day for both days (15 hours), at Warley you would have an average of only 3 minutes per stand, so in say four hours from 1 to 5pm, you have no hope of seeing even half the show... Ah, but some of the stands were only worth 15 seconds, so that gives me 5min 45s for the next one......... Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Ah, but some of the stands were only worth 15 seconds, ... Cheers,Mick As long as that..??!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp1 Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 There are some truly silly people in the world who are extremely easy to offend, please see exhibit A: http://www.whitbygazette.co.uk/news/local/campaign-group-is-cooking-up-a-storm-1-6925894 I have given this a funny rating, but it's not really.....have a look sometime for some of the worse things PETA get up to.......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Trouble with that is, there is no hope of doing the show any justice... Even if you were there all day for both days (15 hours), at Warley you would have an average of only 3 minutes per stand, so in say four hours from 1 to 5pm, you have no hope of seeing even half the show... But can't you be selective? I have a quick look round and then spend time looking at the layouts that interest me. I only visit trade stands if I want to buy, or check on a new release. This probably means that I don't see everything, and possibly miss a few gems but I can live with that. As you say you don't go to shows like Warley anymore then you miss all of them! Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jim Read Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Hello all, I took a length of track and a loco chassis, some half finished card wagons and some that hadn't even been cut from the board and some half finished backscene buildings to a show. I thought that no one would be interested, instead I was chatting all day, right up to the end of the show and came away quite hoarse. At a recent show some interested (in the pastime) visitors said you've made that over the past year or so and I've done virtually nothing. It occurred to me that rather than have all pristine, either very expensive RTR or beautifully engineered scratchbuilt stuff that most people would see as unattainable, have some demonstrations and some layouts that are work in progress. I suspect that visitors would be more inclined to ask questions and feel enthused enough to start something of their own. Cheers - Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 I believe most of the improvement in my modelling has been due to scrutiny at shows (and on RMweb). Dependant on your outlook feedback can either 1 be used negatively and be ignored, with the person receiving it reaffirming their view they were right Or 2 be listened to and acted on. The second option is arguably the harder one to chose especially when your much laboured on model has not come up to scratch but is more fulfilling in the end. You're assuming the person giving the feedback has some kind of clue about what they are talking about however, if they do not then #1 is not a negative response, and #2 is a foolhardy one... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 You're assuming the person giving the feedback has some kind of clue about what they are talking about however, if they do not then #1 is not a negative response, and #2 is a foolhardy one... Quite so. You do, as an operator, have to listen to some il-informed and sometimes downright wrong opinions ("J50's never ran in the capital" - "starting signals should not be put back on until the train has cleared the advanced starter" etc). Sometimes it's safe to correct the "expert", sometimes it's better just to nod. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moggs Eye Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Quite so. You do, as an operator, have to listen to some il-informed and sometimes downright wrong opinions ("J50's never ran in the capital" - "starting signals should not be put back on until the train has cleared the advanced starter" etc). Sometimes it's safe to correct the "expert", sometimes it's better just to nod. Often the expert will appreciate having some gentle explanation about what 'error' has caught their attention. I had a guy telling me, in an amiable manner, that my layout was oversignalled and we had an interesting chat about my rationale and we both went away from the encounter happy. However, there is some satisfaction to be had from pointing out that the 'expert' is wrong and signposting the evidence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted November 26, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 26, 2014 I'm waiting to be told that passenger trains would never be signalled out of a bay platform with a ground signal. I will then courteously produce the photograph that shows the arrangement as it was pre 1933 on Green Ayre then operate the rotary ground signal and set the passenger train off. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Reichert Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 Asking how it's possible to stop a train when the signals in sequence are only 2 ft apart will start the "compression" discussion in a meaningful way. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Hat Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Visiting two exhibitions recently I found that when it comes to scrutiny half of the time it is due to comparing your own knowledge or interest against what is seen before you. As a result you view the layouts before you critically as you form opinions on what you like, what you dont and what you can learn from. Looking recently, my views have been formed on three areas. Trackplan, scenery and operation. When you look at a layout you see what its running, what period, scale etc. When you are interested you approach and the first thing you look for is how much track. On some occasions the area seems mixed, with the right amount but in other cases the scenery takes preference allowing trains to run through (more common on a tail chaser) while others cram in a load of track to almost the entire surface. Sometimes too much track means little room for anything else. Two layouts Ive seen recently are full of track and did not give much scope for setting the scene around the layout. They also choke up the area with tons of track. While this might be interesting so much track can lead to a need to fill it, so for a depot scene, it means engines standing everywhere, but another case was tons of track and little else there. I thought it would have been great to see some of the track overgrown, out of use but that means denying yourself areas to run on. While the track plan might be something that makes you ponder, the scenery can equally be something to note. Scenery can really add something, but one layout was extended that I saw a month ago and the standards by which the extension was completed seemed almost half hearted compared with the rest. It was a shame as the tail chaser layout was attracting quite a crowd, but little was happening in this added area. Other cases made scenery look sublime. While Im careful on layouts where I have noticed things, I feel happy to be mentioning those I have seen. The Gresley Beat and New Bryford at Wakefield had stunning levels of scenery at the right balance. The attention to detail also covered areas relavent to the period and allowed a accurate portayal of the scene to be completed. Its such attentions to detail and setting out of the scenery that give an accurate impression of what they are creating. It all adds to the atmosphere of the layout before trains even start running and in many cases does seperate layouts on quality. Finally, my main gripe. Operation. A lot of this can be attributed to the trackplan and scenery. If your track plan denies effective operation it makes it all the more harder. As does scenery, which includes things like where signals are placed and where buildings are on the layout. Some layouts really had engines having access denied because of a switch across from one line to the next facing the wrong way meaning it did not run correctly, and another unloaded a whole coal train of about 8 wagons into its cenotaph coaling tower in under 5 minutes. Another had a train wizzing round on a tail chaser for about 10 minutes before it was changed, compared to the Gresley Beat where each was different it showed a massive change and mode of operation. It can soon make the difference as effective operation starts to show control and gets people interested in how operators handle the engines. DCC sound in my view has expanded on this as engines can start up and idle for minutes ahead of a move and into use. This was true of New Bryford where a train arrived, set into the station, cleared the signal and then reveresed back to a warehouse. It forced me to review my practice as it means on my layout where a similar shunt is needed I can now only use one end as shunting as a propelling move past two concurrent signals I dont believe is allowed. Watching good practice made me realise this and made me review what Im doing. It was much better watching layouts like this than others where trains get pathed out and its curious why which trains run in front of another. Really, its all interesting and I have no doubt when my layout returns to the circuit that similar questions are asked about it and how it runs. That is all part of the hobby, part of the role of exhibiting and part of the cost of showing what you have for others to in turn judge you too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnarcher Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 Visiting two exhibitions recently I found that when it comes to scrutiny half of the time it is due to comparing your own knowledge or interest against what is seen before you. As a result you view the layouts before you critically as you form opinions on what you like, what you dont and what you can learn from. Looking recently, my views have been formed on three areas. Trackplan, scenery and operation. It just goes to show how what people look for varies. Personally I suppose I look for two things - Firstly the quality of modelling, it can be in scenery, structures or stock (making, weathering etc.) - i can enjoy looking at something really well made, as I have at Pendon, for quite a while without noticing whether anything moves or not. The only role for 'operation' for me, is to bring something new into view to admire. I suppose I'm just more interested in model-making than in actual railway operations. Secondly, the scenic picture - I like to see good staging - lighting, backscene, viewing height, and also never find much interest in something that's all railway and no scene (quite happy with the opposite though - remember Axford?) I just hope exhibitions find enough variety of exhibits to engage all our different preferences. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted December 2, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 2, 2014 Good point on the lighting. Sometimes layouts that look astounding in pictures never quite live up to it in the flesh, and that's nothing to do with the modelling but the dull, uniform lighting; they'd probably look a lot better in daylight. I appreciate that it's rather hard to do a great deal about that in typical exhibition conditions, especially on large layouts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnarcher Posted December 2, 2014 Share Posted December 2, 2014 That's true, it's difficult for large layouts - I suppose I tend to look longer at small layouts, with the full Rice-type boxed display - full lighting, top of the backscene hidden, arch frontage, as high as possible mounting - it all helps to make the most of the model-making on display, and makes them independent of the hall lighting. Fortunately the large, operating, layout finds an audience too, with their own preferences. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Good point on the lighting. Sometimes layouts that look astounding in pictures never quite live up to it in the flesh, ..... I think that's often because at a Show, you simply cannot get the same viewpoint of a layout as most of the photographs you've seen of it in the mags or online.... plus of course the current trend of photoshopping said photos to death - or at least fill in the "sky".... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted December 3, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 3, 2014 I think that's often because at a Show, you simply cannot get the same viewpoint of a layout as most of the photographs you've seen of it in the mags or online.... plus of course the current trend of photoshopping said photos to death - or at least fill in the "sky".... That's true as well. I like to crouch or kneel down when I can to get an eye-level view, that often shows a layout at its best. If you see me on one knee I'm neither genuflecting to you or scrutinizing your layout for errors (most of which I wouldn't know anyway), I'm just appreciating it more! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnarcher Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 That's true as well. I like to crouch or kneel down when I can to get an eye-level view, that often shows a layout at its best. If you see me on one knee I'm neither genuflecting to you or scrutinizing your layout for errors (most of which I wouldn't know anyway), I'm just appreciating it more! I agree, that's why I included the viewing height in my preferences above. I know shows are different from a home layout (catering for wheelchair users for instance), but it is noticeable how someone taking as realistic a picture as possible usually gets down to a level viewpoint. When I have had a home layout I have always set it high enough for that view, I wish there were a way to do that at exhibitions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEAMYAKIMA Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 I don't want to hijack this thread into a discussion of viewing height , but this has caused me some considerable thought with regards my new exhibition layout..... and another linked issue is how far away you view it ...... ie the further away you look at a layout the more horizontal your field of view........... I hope that makes sense! I admit that I am quite tall ( a tad over 6ft 3inches ) and my preferred track height was 4ft 3inches ,.... but after comments from my less tall co-builder I have reduced the track height to 4ft .... too low for me but hopefully more acceptable to the majority. But at exhibitions I will request a minimum barrier depth of 2ft which also improves the viewing experience Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebottle Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Oi! I might have gained a bit lately but... Fryup probably has as much to do with bacon and eggs as Ramsbottom does sheep Loose translation for Ramsbottom is 'bottom of the valley where the wild garlic grows' And, according to Wikipedia: The curious name Fryup probably derives from the Old English reconstruction Frige-hop: Frige was an Anglo-Saxon goddess equated with the Old Norse Frigg; hop denoted a small valley. I liked the offhand addition: For a non-geographical usage, see Full breakfast. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killybegs Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Clinkerford, my old exhibition layout, was originally set at 3'6" but that was backbreaking to work on and I do prefer a higher viewing point. After the first couple of exhibitions I raised it by 12". Then, needless to say, wheelchair users and children couldn't see it! In the end I took it down to its original height on the basis that it's easier for tall people to bend down than it is for disabled people to stand up. Small children are also less inclined to grab the layout so that they can stand on tiptoe - not all shows have barriers! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Reorte Posted December 3, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 3, 2014 All the bending down sometimes leaves me a bit uncomfortable by the time I leave an exhibition (I'm 6'3") but it would be a pity if lots of visitors couldn't see a layout at all, and periscopes don't seem like a great solution. Have the whole layout on hydraulics? 4' 8 1/2" sounds like a good height for me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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